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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 03:41 PM
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Just wanted to say "wow" 800 replies to this thread.

So, for those so adamant that China would risk all to get Taiwan back: Why not make themselves more attractive and lure them back that away instead of the hostility and sabre rattling?




posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 04:07 PM
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Your sources are definitely biased. Taipei times, one of the biggest TAIWANESE news papers. Its like in Iran, all they do is exaggerate the truth about the bad points of US. Try using some newspaper of none Chinese, Taiwanese or American newspaper.

We have already lured most of their rich people away to Shanghai.

[edit on 17-11-2004 by COWlan]



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
Your sources are definitely biased. Taipei times, one of the biggest TAIWANESE news papers.


As opposed to the totaly free press that comes from China? The same ones that surpressed SARS till the doctor blew the whistle?? His reward for letting the world know of the outbreak??? jail. Funny the stories you write when a gun is in your back eh?



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
Actually the Chinese government is very diverse. Lots of the representitives speak different dialects or have different accents.



Okay, that maybe true. That has to be a given considering the size of China. You can't expect all the governers to speak the same dialect!!In fact to counter your point hindus in India speak over 100 dialects, so even if the establishment was entirely Hindu then it'd be speaking 'many' dialects.
You fail to see the reasoning behind my point.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 05:18 PM
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this all i got to say: damn government, damn ghosts, damn communists, damn muslims, and damn aliens! if it aint for all of these damn sons of a we would have a lot less problems!



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
Your sources are definitely biased. Taipei times, one of the biggest TAIWANESE news papers. Its like in Iran, all they do is exaggerate the truth about the bad points of US. Try using some newspaper of none Chinese, Taiwanese or American newspaper.
[edit on 17-11-2004 by COWlan]


I must point out that the rioting news are not made up. The number of riots and protests per year are released by Chinese government itself.
Oh, and Taipei Times are not the biggest newspaper in Taiwan, although it is quite popular. There are at least 3 other newspaper that are popular in Taiwan. Taipei Times seems to be more of a news source of Taiwan and regions around it for foreigners because its website is in English.

[edit on 17-11-2004 by twchang]

[edit on 17-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 06:08 PM
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Yeah, the Taipei Times is an english only paper for web distribution, but it is the Liberty Times mirror and it's won 4 prestigious journalism awards.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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For a large country like china that is in a transition period, it is not really surprising to see these protests especially when you have large economic disparity among different groups. But, compared with the problem in india, what we have is small potatos. Do you remember a couple of years ago, the indian parliament in its capital was attacked? And people die everyday in Kashmir and Assam.

For what we have, we are doing a splendid job. In late 1940, China and india were at the same economic level. But,
1) today China's GDP is more than twice that of India;
2)China has just surprised Japan as the 3rd largest global trader while india is not even among the top 20 (tiny ireland trades more than india)
3) Chinese live 10 years longer on average than an indian
4) We are a member of the UNSC while india is tryign to get in
5) China is No. 2 in the olympics in gold medal while india has only 1 silver
6) China is the world's largest cell phone market, while the number of indians with cell phones is only a fraction of china's
7) China's PC sells is several times larger than that of india

In other words, how ever bad we are, we are doing much, much better than india is. Keep in mind, China is still a poor 3rd-world country with a gross GDP per capita of $1000 and $4000 on a PPP basis.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 07:16 PM
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Yes, I have to say China's news papers are biased but aren't mostly all newspapers biased toward one side?

China's population will start decreasing soon, it might be good and might be bad. America has HUGE amounts of protests and strikes am I not correct? Every country has protests. China has a rule of if you or a certain group wish to protest then please go to the police station and book yourselves and the leaders will have to sign a form which states they understand their protest is just trying to make a point and violence will not be involved or arrests will be made.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by redflag
Most of the American does't know about chinese,They know chinese through their medias such as newspaper and TV, They don't know how important it was that Taiwan means to China . It is all chinese wish to reunited Taiwan to mainland oneday in the future.
Some American people worry about the war between the China an USA. I tell you this will never happen if Unitedstates won't interfere with the Taiwan affair. But if USA wanted to protect Taiwan. The war is inevitable. China has never show aggression toward another people and nation. we has only respond to their attacks. If the war is began.In order to defend our sovereighty, All chinese will ready to sacrifice for the war. we don't afraid to engage in thermonuclear war. In that way , both China and USA will be destroyed.
we don't understand why American so likely to interfere with other county's affair. we don't understand that in history of USA, why the north did not allow the south to go independent?


I so totally support this statement. Come on, America the international police is starting to be like the international bully where it attacks small countries with obviously no way of attacking the American mainland for some resources or just to stimulate the American economy.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 07:23 PM
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Also, didn't Lincoln go to war to preserve US national integrity while many countries including UK had recognized the South as a separate country? I think it is US double standards at work once again



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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Taiwan's democraticly elected President Chen said yesterday,his next attempt to join the UN will be under the name Taiwan.

I think President Chen is a GREAT statesman and a Great man.

He is head and shoulders above anything the dog dragged in from China.

They don't have anything to compare to a leader like President Chen.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 07:37 PM
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Of course, Chen is the greatest leader in the world, in the eyes of china haters. But, in the eyes of 1.3 billion chinese, he ain't that great. Same can be said for Bush...

Of course, we agree to disagree.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
Also, didn't Lincoln go to war to preserve US national integrity while many countries including UK had recognized the South as a separate country? I think it is US double standards at work once again


The thing is, before the civil war, US was once under one nation. But when did PRC ever have control over Taiwan? Was Taiwan once part of PRC?

Also, I think one of Chinese leader mention this history to the reporters during his visit to the White House, and saying how he admires Lincoln and China should do the same to Taiwan. But this notion was quickly rejected by Clinton I think.

It is at a different time, in different place with different situation. I assume there is something more to the civil war than just preserving US territories.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 09:53 PM
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No, in the grand scheme of history, this is just a blimp of an eye. Taiwan's official name is the Republic of China and they still claim to be the rightful government of whole of china including tibet and mongolia and much of russian-occupied territory. Look it up on there official website... It is an integral part of china, no less



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
No, in the grand scheme of history, this is just a blimp of an eye. Taiwan's official name is the Republic of China and they still claim to be the rightful government of whole of china including tibet and mongolia and much of russian-occupied territory. Look it up on there official website... It is an integral part of china, no less


hahaha...yea, they are the left over policies of Nationalists. So are you saying that Nationalists and "Republic of China" should go back and unify China, and take Mangolia back as well? By the way, the policies were forced by the Nationalists upon people in Taiwan, no Taiwanese thinks it is true and no Taiwanese cares.

See, the situation is more complicated than just policies on a piece of paper.

Most people and the government of Taiwan wants to change our constitution so it represents the actual fact of the current situation. But PRC just said that if Taiwan changes constitution to not including China and Mangolia, it will mean declaring independence and it will mean war. And I am not making this up. It is the PRC that wants us to keep our out dated constitution used by the Nationalists back in our grand pa's generation.

The government of Taiwan has stated repeatedly that Taiwan is a country, its terriitory is Taiwan itself and other small islands currently under Taiwan's control. It is just a very clear representation of the current situation.



[edit on 17-11-2004 by twchang]

[edit on 17-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 10:28 PM
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yeah, right. Why don't you show me historical evidence that Taiwan was ever a country???

Secondly, show me that the people of taiwan unanimously support independenc. Evidence shows that 15% hardcore support independence adn 15% support unification while the rest simply want status quo.



posted on Nov, 17 2004 @ 10:30 PM
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didn't a veteran commit suicide in taiwan because the government is trying to de-chinize and claim the founding father of the Republic a foreigner???? How absurd????



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
didn't a veteran commit suicide in taiwan because the government is trying to de-chinize and claim the founding father of the Republic a foreigner???? How absurd????


Hmm....now we are really off topic.

This stuff is really depending on your point of view.

The guy is an old retired soldier of the Nationalists. He is one of the Nationalists that retreat to Taiwan from China. A lot of them are, unfortunately...heavily brain washed by the Nationalists. A lot of them still think that the current China and Mangolia belong to Republic of China. They don't seem to be able to see the fact. Some of them even want to surrender to the PRC right now.

I respect his service in the past, but as most people in Taiwan know, they are heavily brain washed and seem to live in a fantasy world.

Oh...and about the founding father, the topic is still in debat because actually the guy is the founder of the Nationalists, and the Nationalists just say that he is the founding father of the nation, so it is still in question wether or not he is the founding father...or if there is even a founding father. It is not official yet...just some debates by scholars. Because Taiwan just become a full democratic society recently, a lot of history can be further studied instead of just using the brain wash material from the nationalists...that is why the debates. It has nothing to do with "de-chinize." Taiwan's past culture was heavily influenced by China and Japan, and it is now developing its own culture as well. There is no intention to wash away the Chinese/Japanese culture.

But I think most people in Taiwan don't care about it that much and still accept him as one of the founder of the nation, because he is one of the founder of Republic of China and since the current government is an extension of ROC and the official name is ROC, calling him a founding father is acceptable.


[edit on 18-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 18 2004 @ 12:30 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
yeah, right. Why don't you show me historical evidence that Taiwan was ever a country???

Secondly, show me that the people of taiwan unanimously support independenc. Evidence shows that 15% hardcore support independence adn 15% support unification while the rest simply want status quo.


hmm...you don't believe me? I know it sounds funny and stupid, but it is true. Otherwise we would have fixed the constitution already, because almost no body in the world think it is correct anyway.

Well...Taiwan is a country, right now. It is not an ancient lost civilization...Why do I need to pull data out of history to prove that it exists?

I never said that people in Taiwan unanimously support independence. But I am sure that a lot of people in Taiwan don't want to be threaten by China.

To be fair, I will use the most recent poll from a Taiwanese newspaper that leaning taword unification:

Want Independence: 31%
Want to keep status quo: 36%
Want unification: 17%

don't know where the rest of 16% goes, probably no opinion.

Newspaper that leaning taword independence would probably show more people for independence, but unfortunately I don't have the data right now.

If you live in Taiwan, you will know that most people who want unification are the old Nationalists who retreat from China and occupy Taiwan. They have a tie with China and are heavily brain washed by Nationalists. They are similar to the loyalists during Independence war in America, but brain washed. A lot of their children now are holding different point of view, though.

Also, a lot of people want to keep status quo because they are affraid of war. And some people, like my old man, just think that the status quo is that Taiwan is an independent country.

Also worth mentioning is that, from the same newspaper, people who want independence has increased from 24% to 31%, and people who wants unification has decreased from 27% to 17% while the people who want to keep the status quo stays about the same in the past 5 years.




[edit on 18-11-2004 by twchang]



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