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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by poirot
India fought a war with China - and lost (borders trouble)

No, US can't win a war against China - at least in Chinese territory

why cant it win may i ask?




posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by poirot
India fought a war with China - and lost (borders trouble)

No, US can't win a war against China - at least in Chinese territory

why cant it win may i ask?


In theory, country that spends on most on its military should have the upper hand. But that does not mean more expansive things are always better.
Also,
What makes you think the U.S. has the money to goto war with China? That is the question. You think the U.S. has the money to fight Iraq? The answer is no. If you are not aware of these facts, you should go back to school. Lastly, who do you think are financing the U.S. Iraq war? What do you know? Incase you don't know, Japan, South Korea and China is financing the Iraq war. YOu want to know how? They purchase riducules amount of U.S. treasury bonds. U.S. is a country of debt, everyone in this country has some kind of debt, yes this is a fact. Soon or later, U.S. will loose credibilty, since the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper. When that time comes, we stupid Americans won't know what hit us, we will continue to blame others for our idiotic problems. It is sad to say, in the year 2004, the earth is still full of morons. Morons kill morons.
During wars, leaders kill the internal resistance as well. who are they? they are the intellectuals, the people who can think outside of the box. Do some research on the killing if intellectuals during war times. couple of examples: Germany during WWII, China...

FYI: as of 10.20.04, U.S. has a debt of: $7,438,423,120,329.69. Each American's share of this debt: $25,250.82 (this does not include personal debts such as car and house loans) Moreover, the U.S. gets deeper in the hole by $1.7 billion dollers per day. Now, this makes us, the U.S. look like we are a bunch of idiots. Do you know someone, whos spending habits is comparable to the U.S.? If you do, do you know people who keep lending that person money?
www.brillig.com...

Thank You.

*edit to add the US debt info.


[edit on 20-10-2004 by Inhotep]



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Inhotep

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by poirot
India fought a war with China - and lost (borders trouble)

No, US can't win a war against China - at least in Chinese territory

why cant it win may i ask?


In theory, country that spends on most on its military should have the upper hand. But that does not mean more expansive things are always better.
Also,
What makes you think the U.S. has the money to goto war with China? That is the question. You think the U.S. has the money to fight Iraq? The answer is no. If you are not aware of these facts, you should go back to school. Lastly, who do you think are financing the U.S. Iraq war? What do you know? Incase you don't know, Japan, South Korea and China is financing the Iraq war. YOu want to know how? They purchase riducules amount of U.S. treasury bonds. U.S. is a country of debt, everyone in this country has some kind of debt, yes this is a fact. Soon or later, U.S. will loose credibilty, since the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper. When that time comes, we stupid Americans won't know what hit us, we will continue to blame others for our idiotic problems. It is sad to say, in the year 2004, the earth is still full of morons. Morons kill morons.
During wars, leaders kill the internal resistance as well. who are they? they are the intellectuals, the people who can think outside of the box. Do some research on the killing if intellectuals during war times. couple of examples: Germany during WWII, China...

FYI: as of 10.20.04, U.S. has a debt of: $7,438,423,120,329.69. Each American's share of this debt: $25,250.82 (this does not include personal debts such as car and house loans) Moreover, the U.S. gets deeper in the hole by $1.7 billion dollers per day. Now, this makes us, the U.S. look like we are a bunch of idiots. Do you know someone, whos spending habits is comparable to the U.S.? If you do, do you know people who keep lending that person money?
www.brillig.com...

Thank You.

*edit to add the US debt info.


[edit on 20-10-2004 by Inhotep]


I like the way you think and thumbs up for all your statements. It is a fact that a war with China will cost MUCH MUCH more than Iraq, America could bankrupt itself if the war goes to a long term conflict. Lets not talk about a ground war because US DOESN'T have the ability to send in ground troops because US doesn't have its good ol' transport fleets like it had in WWII.



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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Inotep and COWlan,

to both of you.

The fact is, most people have no idea just how expensive a war is. One month of Operation: Desert Storm cost like four times the net worth of a private corporation.

Now, Desert Storm and Iraqi Freedom were two relative small wars. Considering how much they cost, imagine how much a big-ass war with China would cost.

I don't even want to imagine the cost. That pretty much means I'll have to live on the streets unless I serve in the military.



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by Inhotep

In theory, country that spends on most on its military should have the upper hand. But that does not mean more expansive things are always better.
Also,
What makes you think the U.S. has the money to goto war with China? That is the question. You think the U.S. has the money to fight Iraq? The answer is no. If you are not aware of these facts, you should go back to school. Lastly, who do you think are financing the U.S. Iraq war? What do you know? Incase you don't know, Japan, South Korea and China is financing the Iraq war. YOu want to know how? They purchase riducules amount of U.S. treasury bonds. U.S. is a country of debt, everyone in this country has some kind of debt, yes this is a fact. Soon or later, U.S. will loose credibilty, since the hole keeps getting deeper and deeper. When that time comes, we stupid Americans won't know what hit us, we will continue to blame others for our idiotic problems. It is sad to say, in the year 2004, the earth is still full of morons. Morons kill morons.
During wars, leaders kill the internal resistance as well. who are they? they are the intellectuals, the people who can think outside of the box. Do some research on the killing if intellectuals during war times. couple of examples: Germany during WWII, China...

FYI: as of 10.20.04, U.S. has a debt of: $7,438,423,120,329.69. Each American's share of this debt: $25,250.82 (this does not include personal debts such as car and house loans) Moreover, the U.S. gets deeper in the hole by $1.7 billion dollers per day. Now, this makes us, the U.S. look like we are a bunch of idiots. Do you know someone, whos spending habits is comparable to the U.S.? If you do, do you know people who keep lending that person money?
www.brillig.com...

Thank You.

*edit to add the US debt info.


[edit on 20-10-2004 by Inhotep]

woooh some one is cranky look man i was asking why you didnt think they could do it, no need to rip my head off.
also seriosly? if its in debt then why isnt it bankrupt?



posted on Oct, 20 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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I'm sorry for being cranky. I really meant to be cranky to the people who don't know anything, the uneducated people. Man, lots people here in the U.S. don't know what the hell is going on, they just don't make the effort to see the facts.

Yes I am dead serious about the U.S. debt. Best way for you is to look for yourself. you can find it here Example- CBS Market watch, CNN Money, U.S. Treasury



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by Inhotep
And you wondered why most people dislike the U.S.?


I don't get that feeling when millions of tons of the best minds on earth want to live out their lives in the good old U.S.A.

Even uneducated below hamburger flipper-grass clipper humans want to flock here to live in our slums.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 04:57 PM
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If you mean the everyday high tech electronics like your TV your fridge or your cell believe me EVERY SMALL HIGHTECH ELECTRONIC IS BETTER IN ASIA!! LOOK AT ANYWEB SITES!!! WE HAVE PHONES THAT WON"T COME OUT FOR ANOTHER THREE YEARS IN NORTHAMERICA!! Our new phones have a five megapixel digital camera in it and it can watch movies wirelesslly don't believe it? Go and find it on the internet it is LG's product. It is true and all the electronic stuff, you can save on a average of 20% in asia, Why? Your own country is doing it because all of those stuff are made in China and you put tax on it, don't blame China cuz the American government is doing that. If they don't put tax on all of the imported products then US will have to seriously reduce its military spendings and a possible Government health care, DREAM ON. The truth is US WILL go bankrupt if a major conflict occurs. One missile cost on average of four-hundred-thousand USD. Conflict with China will need thousands of them if not tens of thousands of them and that is just for missiles. Transportation? Fuel? Combat casulties? Mancost? Conflict with China for a day will probably cost billions of dollars and times that by like what, 300? 600? What if it becomes a long term conflict lasting several years? Think people.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 05:32 PM
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Cowlan,

After the situation in the Taiwan Strait reaches a certain point, it won't be about economics anymore.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 10:19 PM
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As a Taiwanese, here is my opinon on the topic:

1) If reunification is a must, then you, china, had better believe that you have to reform to a similar system to Taiwan or the United States. NOBODY is going to block google.com from me. NOBODY is going to take away my home and then build a dam or olympic stadium on top of it to only pay me 100 RMB as compensation. NOBODY is going to shoot me in the head or jail me for 10 years for speaking ill about the goverment. I can stand right here in Taiwan and say "I hate Chen Sui Bian" and I WILL NOT be arrested. That is FREEDOM.

I am not against Re-unification. I am against Re-unification with an Authoritarian government.

2) In the posts I often read: Well, let the chinese people all vote. That gives China the majority 98% Yes on reunification. DUH. Well, how about this? Since chinese in china cannot vote for their president, hell, they can't even vote in a beauty pagent most likely, why don't you let the people of Taiwan vote. Hmmm.... Novel idea. Afterall, we are already use to the "process" of voting. We don't want to teach ALL chinese people "what" voting is and "how" to do it. Takes too much time and under the Authoritarian government, they wouldn't understand the concept.

3) You claim that you are liberating us? From what?! Are you people mentally capable of fathoming the fact that people on Taiwan are HAPPY??? We are not kept in a "cage" as china calls it, like prisoners. Hell, people from CHINA are trying to emmigrate TO TAIWAN. There is a waiting LIST! Now, I don't know what kind of cage that is but sure sounds like a good one to be in if people in china are trying to emmigrate to "the cage." Maybe we have some fun stuff over here huh? You bet. We can start with freedom of speech.

4) Many chinese deny that Taiwan has a "government." Okay, I don't want to argue with cretins so I'll call the "goverment" a "bunch of people running around." Now the "bunch of people running around" have created one of the most prosperous economies not to mention democracy in Asia. The envy of many Asian neighbors. For a "bunch of people running around" on a small island, I would say, that's not bad at all.

5) You say you want to reunify peacefully yet you shoot missles over our heads. Hmmmm..... Don't have to be socrates or a rocket scientist to know that a "threat missle" is mutually exclusive to peace.

6) I have heard the "Let China take Taiwan" argument. Who cares? It doesn't affect me! You will when you go to your local U.S. Best Buy to purchase electronics and that $600.00 HP computer is suddenly $4,000.00. Why? Oh because Taiwan manufactures the majority of computer components for Televisions, Electronics in general and Computers. So why is the computer so much?! Well, the factory that makes the motherboard has been bombed. Thus, they can't ship the motherboards to HP. Thus, HP doesn't know when they can complete production of the comptuers so the ones that are out now, we'll just jack up the price. Don't get me started on LCD, Plasmas, Digital Cameras, etc... Sony, GE, Toshiba, Samsung, whatever, they all have components from Taiwan. Oh and if the Taiex (Taiwan stock exchange) goes down, that WILL affect the economies of the world. One thing Americans hate is HIGH PRICES, like the rest of the free world.

Enough ranting... I'm going to get on google.com to search for stuff.... can you do that? If you can, your not in China =)

Oh by the way the PRC BANNED doreamon... HAHA a cute little cartoon featuring a blue robotic cat with a propellor on his head. It's EVIL. HAHAHAH. Time for the Chairman Mao's learning hour children. Featuring.... The dancing little red book! Yeah!!!



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 10:31 PM
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Since this thread made its way back into current discussion, I believe it was in this thread that some proclaimed vehemently that Taiwan did not belong to China. Your (and I am sure of origin) secretary of state disagrees with you. So then, do you still believe that the US of A be opposing China if they rein in Taiwan? I say not a chance.



posted on Oct, 27 2004 @ 10:37 PM
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@Taiwanese friend

What language do you speak? What language do your parents and grandparents speak? What food do you eat? I bet, they are all Chinese and you don't think you are a chinese?????

Well, why is your official name still Republic of China???

Wake up, brother. The unification of our country is but a matter of time.



posted on Oct, 28 2004 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by guyverseven
As a Taiwanese, here is my opinon on the topic:

1) If reunification is a must, then you, china, had better believe that you have to reform to a similar system to Taiwan or the United States. NOBODY is going to block google.com from me. NOBODY is going to take away my home and then build a dam or olympic stadium on top of it to only pay me 100 RMB as compensation. NOBODY is going to shoot me in the head or jail me for 10 years for speaking ill about the goverment. I can stand right here in Taiwan and say "I hate Chen Sui Bian" and I WILL NOT be arrested. That is FREEDOM.

I am not against Re-unification. I am against Re-unification with an Authoritarian government.

2) In the posts I often read: Well, let the chinese people all vote. That gives China the majority 98% Yes on reunification. DUH. Well, how about this? Since chinese in china cannot vote for their president, hell, they can't even vote in a beauty pagent most likely, why don't you let the people of Taiwan vote. Hmmm.... Novel idea. Afterall, we are already use to the "process" of voting. We don't want to teach ALL chinese people "what" voting is and "how" to do it. Takes too much time and under the Authoritarian government, they wouldn't understand the concept.

3) You claim that you are liberating us? From what?! Are you people mentally capable of fathoming the fact that people on Taiwan are HAPPY??? We are not kept in a "cage" as china calls it, like prisoners. Hell, people from CHINA are trying to emmigrate TO TAIWAN. There is a waiting LIST! Now, I don't know what kind of cage that is but sure sounds like a good one to be in if people in china are trying to emmigrate to "the cage." Maybe we have some fun stuff over here huh? You bet. We can start with freedom of speech.

4) Many chinese deny that Taiwan has a "government." Okay, I don't want to argue with cretins so I'll call the "goverment" a "bunch of people running around." Now the "bunch of people running around" have created one of the most prosperous economies not to mention democracy in Asia. The envy of many Asian neighbors. For a "bunch of people running around" on a small island, I would say, that's not bad at all.

5) You say you want to reunify peacefully yet you shoot missles over our heads. Hmmmm..... Don't have to be socrates or a rocket scientist to know that a "threat missle" is mutually exclusive to peace.

6) I have heard the "Let China take Taiwan" argument. Who cares? It doesn't affect me! You will when you go to your local U.S. Best Buy to purchase electronics and that $600.00 HP computer is suddenly $4,000.00. Why? Oh because Taiwan manufactures the majority of computer components for Televisions, Electronics in general and Computers. So why is the computer so much?! Well, the factory that makes the motherboard has been bombed. Thus, they can't ship the motherboards to HP. Thus, HP doesn't know when they can complete production of the comptuers so the ones that are out now, we'll just jack up the price. Don't get me started on LCD, Plasmas, Digital Cameras, etc... Sony, GE, Toshiba, Samsung, whatever, they all have components from Taiwan. Oh and if the Taiex (Taiwan stock exchange) goes down, that WILL affect the economies of the world. One thing Americans hate is HIGH PRICES, like the rest of the free world.

Enough ranting... I'm going to get on google.com to search for stuff.... can you do that? If you can, your not in China =)

Oh by the way the PRC BANNED doreamon... HAHA a cute little cartoon featuring a blue robotic cat with a propellor on his head. It's EVIL. HAHAHAH. Time for the Chairman Mao's learning hour children. Featuring.... The dancing little red book! Yeah!!!


1)We get arrested for saying some government official is stupid? I have said it in front of a police and they did nothing.

2)Block google? I use google everyday my freaking god

3)Take away your home? where are your facts? My cousin live in the place where they will build the Olympic village, they built many MANY condominiums else where and gave them a house to them as compensation. Don't talk about China if you don't know it ok?

4)Liberating? Taiwan IS CHINA!! It can never be changed. I bet millions of you have relatives in China. I have like ten Taiwan friends. They don't like Chenshuibian. they said Chenshuibian=War

5)Reunification is only a matter of time believe me. 80% of your rich people have already moved to Shanhai or one of the supercities because they know with Chenshuibian as president, its only a matter of time until war.

6)You technically DOn't EXIST because UN does not acknoledge (forgive me for my spelling)you.

7)Hey about the missiles. We don't aim there for no reason. With the current 600 billion TWD military purchase and the anti radar missiles WE HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO AIM AT YOU.

8)And about the high tech things, all the major companies are transferring to mainland because of fear of war and raising mancosts so 600 dollar computer for 2000 dollars? You crazy? you'll be lucky if the price doesn't drop.

9)Doreamon? DoreaMON? THAT WAS THE FREAKING CARTOON I WATCHED WHEN I WAS GROWING UP!! Please, don't be stupid.

10)TAIWAN IS CHINA! WE HAVE EVERYRIGHT TO BUY HOUSES AND LIVE IN TAIWAN OK?????

I have heard of a fourty percent layoff rate if you declare independance because you are economically tied to China. Your answer to that?

[edit on 28-10-2004 by COWlan]

[edit on 28-10-2004 by COWlan]



posted on Nov, 4 2004 @ 10:19 PM
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I am from Taiwan. Personally, I am very pro-independent, and a lot of people in Taiwan are very pro-independent as well. Currently, people who want to unify with China are the minorities.

The fact is that Taiwan is already an independent country, although it does not enjoy what a fully independent country can have, such as formal diplomatic relationships with other countries, and it is largely due to pressure from China.

Can China Invade Taiwan? Sure they can, but I am not sure if it will be successful, because Taiwan has its own defense forces, and the possible involvement of US and Japan. Others will obviously hold different opinions. That is why Taiwan doesn't declare independence...kind of cowardly, but when people's lives are at stake, Taiwan simply can't rush it I guess.

Anyways, I hope all the people in Taiwan can have the wisdom to eventaully bring Taiwan to formal independence without blood, because China obviously just don't want to let it go. If war is inavoidable, then I will do whatever I can to help defend Taiwan.



[edit on 4-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 02:23 PM
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My opinion is people who are CHinese but don't want to be Chinese deserve to be killed. Personally I can't kill them because the law restricts me to do that but if the law does not apply on me then off I go to Taiwan with a sniper rifle.



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 02:39 PM
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My opinion is people who are CHinese but don't want to be Chinese deserve to be killed. Personally I can't kill them because the law restricts me to do that but if the law does not apply on me then off I go to Taiwan with a sniper rifle.

This applies to almost every country, Say if some weird politician is suggesting umm......Texas to go independant, what is tnhe government of America gonna do? Kill the leader in some way right and stop the movement for independance or use anyway possible to stop the movement with as little casulty as possible because the Texans are still American right? Well Taiwan has rejected unification and is well on the way of independance and China will never let it go even it it does go to war. There are 20 million Chinese people living on that island and Taiwan is of strategic importance to China. A island so close to China with American strategic bomber will be unacceptable in anyway so China wil NEVER let Taiwan go.



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 04:00 PM
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Originally posted by COWlan
My opinion is people who are CHinese but don't want to be Chinese deserve to be killed. Personally I can't kill them because the law restricts me to do that but if the law does not apply on me then off I go to Taiwan with a sniper rifle.

This applies to almost every country, Say if some weird politician is suggesting umm......Texas to go independant, what is tnhe government of America gonna do? Kill the leader in some way right and stop the movement for independance or use anyway possible to stop the movement with as little casulty as possible because the Texans are still American right? Well Taiwan has rejected unification and is well on the way of independance and China will never let it go even it it does go to war. There are 20 million Chinese people living on that island and Taiwan is of strategic importance to China. A island so close to China with American strategic bomber will be unacceptable in anyway so China wil NEVER let Taiwan go.


That is why I am so pro independent, because of replies like this. Years ago I was not so pro independent but seeing hundreds of messages similar to your reply just push me further toward pro independence.

In Canada, when some people in Quebec want independence, Canada just let people in Quebec vote.

Please differentiate between culture group and nation. People in Taiwan are not Chinese citizens although a lot of the culture are from China. It is similar to the relationship between people in US and people in UK. By the way, a lot of our older people do not know how to speak Chinese. Please don't give me this we speak the same language or have the same blood stuff, if that is the way you identify your territories, then all the China towns around the world should belong to China. Furthermore, the government of People's Republic of China has never govern any part of the territory under Taiwan's control.

Taiwan's independence does not mean US strategic bombers in Taiwan. There are none now, and there will probably be none in the future, if China does not increase its hostility against Taiwan. If China let Taiwan becomes indepent now and be friendly with Taiwan, there is no telling what the future might hold, even a unification between China and Taiwan is possible. The main point for the most Taiwanese is that we have our own unique identity now and want to determine our own future, because history has taught us a bloody and cruel lesson.

Also a suggestion, when you Chinese talk to us about this problem, be open minded, otherwise you will just push Taiwan further away.


[edit on 5-11-2004 by twchang]



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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You didn't know Canada was preparing for war right?
With the demonstrations Canada moved troops into Quebec even though you don't know it. At least thats what my grade 10 history teacher said. Independance is unacceptable for any country. Except for the country in Europe which I forgot its name but the two sides hated each other so they were glad of getting rid of each other.



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 05:17 PM
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Tons of people in China don't speak Chinese because there are 56 different cultures that co-exists in CHina. I am not surprised that Taiwan has people who don't speak Chinese, I can speak two Chinese languages, Modern Mandarin and my dialect which no one could understand except forpeople who speak it. I will say it again China WILL NOT let Taiwan go even if a few million people have to lose their life. A few million people is a TINY number compared to the casulties we are willing to suffer in major wars. WWII inflicted 60 million deaths in China alone, which out numbers the european WWII casulties I think but I am not sure on this, I have to look it up.



posted on Nov, 5 2004 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Hawkssss
@Taiwanese friend

What language do you speak? What language do your parents and grandparents speak? What food do you eat? I bet, they are all Chinese and you don't think you are a chinese?????


Hey, I speak English, my parents speak English, my grandparents (well, grandmothers) speak English. But I am not English. US citizens speak English, parents speak English and Grandparents speak English but they are not English.

The Scots are the same and they share a border with England. But they are NOT English.

Of course China could take Taiwan. That's not in dispute.

But Taiwan would bleed the PLA white in the process. Look up the meaning of the words Phyrric Victory.
"One more victory like that..."

And as for Taiwan not being independent...how much income tax does Taiwan contribute to Beijing? How many regiments? How many governors does Beijing appoint to Taipei?







 
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