Can China Invade Taiwan?

Originally posted by keholmes

Originally posted by bodebliss
........ Taiwan is free.Taiwan should enjoy "puerto rico' status.......

What do you mean�..Puerto Rico is commonwealth of the US, right?

The US would welcome Taiwan as a commonwealth. But that might make a few heads in Bejing go "Pop"

Originally posted by FredT
The US would welcome Taiwan as a commonwealth. But that might make a few heads in Bejing go "Pop"

YOU can take Taiwan as a commonwealth. I say we let them be free without any influence from us. Or China.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
YOU can take Taiwan as a commonwealth. I say we let them be free without any influence from us. Or China.

Actually I was kidding on that. But you are right. Taiwan should be its own country free to pick its alliances and determine its own destiny.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo

Originally posted by FredT
The US would welcome Taiwan as a commonwealth. But that might make a few heads in Bejing go "Pop"

YOU can take Taiwan as a commonwealth. I say we let them be free without any influence from us. Or China.

Wouldnt that be nice but sadly 1 or the other is gonna have influence in what Taiwan does 1 way or another

My point being to the poster that if they were to be a commonwealth it would probably be a commonwealth of China�.probably not something that they want. As for the thread the more interesting question to be asked would be; what would be the US response to an invasion.

Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
YOU can take Taiwan as a commonwealth. I say we let them be free without any influence from us. Or China.

That�s the point I don�t believe that the US is influencing them. They asked to be protected and we have sworn to protect them�..if by influence them you mean leave them to be coerced by china, then I would say that would be an incorrect stance.

Gentlemen, you come across like schoolboys shoving each other as you each declare: �my daddy can beat up your daddy.�

Your absence on the threads regarding Russia and Chechnya are duly noted, as I see no one advocating: �Taiwan should be its own country free to pick its alliances and determine its own destiny.� Let me guess as to why, you would rather Russia control Chechnya than what you have come to believe are Muslim fanatics wanting independence.

I repeat Taiwan belongs to China. I also want to correct one other fallacy being floated in here; The U.S has no obligation to defend Taiwan. Now if any Americans or citizens of U.N member countries in here disagree with those statements, they should be demanding their governments correct their positions, to wit:

�At the end of World War II in 1945, Taiwan reverted to Chinese rule�The authorities in Taipei exercise control over Taiwan, Kinmen, Matsu, and the Penghus (Pescadores) and several of the smaller islands. Taiwan's two major cities, Taipei and Kaohsiung, are centrally administered municipalities. At the end of 1998, the Constitution was amended to make all counties and cities directly administered by the Executive Yuan. From 1949 until 1991, the authorities on Taiwan claimed to be the sole legitimate government of all of China, including the mainland. In keeping with that claim, when the Nationalists moved to Taiwan in 1949, they re-established the full array of central political bodies, which had existed on the mainland. While much of this structure remains in place, the authorities on Taiwan in 1991 abandoned their claim of governing mainland China, stating that they do not "dispute the fact that the P.R.C. controls mainland China."�

Foreign relations:
The People's Republic of China replaced Taiwan at the United Nations in 1971, and Taiwan's diplomatic position eroded, as many countries changed their official recognition from Taipei to Beijing. As of late 2003, Taiwan had formal diplomatic ties with 27 countries. At the same time, Taiwan has cultivated informal ties with most countries to offset its diplomatic isolation and to expand its economic relations. A number of nations have set up unofficial organizations to carry out commercial and other relations with Taiwan. Including its official overseas missions and its unofficial representative and/or trade offices, Taiwan is represented in 122 countries. Recently, Taiwan has lobbied strongly for admission into international organizations such as the United Nations. The P.R.C. opposes Taiwan's membership in such organizations, most of which require statehood for membership, because Beijing considers Taiwan to be a province of China, not a separate sovereign state.

U.S relations with China-Taiwan:
On January 1, 1979, the United States changed its diplomatic recognition from Taipei to Beijing. In the U.S.-P.R.C. Joint Communiqu� that announced the change, the United States recognized the Government of the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China and acknowledged the Chinese position that there is but one China and Taiwan is part of China. The Joint Communiqu� also stated that within this context the people of the United States will maintain cultural, commercial, and other unofficial relations with the people on Taiwan.

On April 10, 1979, President Carter signed into law the Taiwan Relations Act (TRA), which created domestic legal authority for the conduct of unofficial relations with Taiwan. U.S. commercial, cultural, and other interaction with the people on Taiwan is facilitated through the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT), a private nonprofit corporation. The Institute has its headquarters in the Washington, DC, area and has offices in Taipei and Kaohsiung. It is authorized to issue visas, accept passport applications, and provide assistance to U.S. citizens in Taiwan. A counterpart organization, the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States (TECRO), has been established by the Taiwan authorities. It has its headquarters in Taipei, the representative branch office in Washington, DC, and 11 other Taipei Economic and Cultural Offices (TECO) in the continental U.S. and Guam.

Following derecognition, the United States terminated its Mutual Defense Treaty with Taiwan. However, the United States has continued the sale of appropriate defensive military equipment to Taiwan in accordance with the Taiwan Relations Act which provides for such sales and which declares that peace and stability in the area are in U.S. interests. Sales of defensive military equipment also are consistent with the 1982 U.S.-P.R.C. Joint Communiqu�. In this communiqu�, the United States stated that "it does not seek to carry out a long-term policy of arms sales to Taiwan" and that U.S. arms sales would "not exceed, either in qualitative or in quantitative terms, the level of those supplied in recent years," and that the U.S. intends "gradually to reduce its sale of arms to Taiwan." The P.R.C., in the 1982 communiqu�, stated that its policy was to strive for a peaceful resolution of the Taiwan question.

Maintaining diplomatic relations with the P.R.C. has been
recognized to be in the long-term interest of the United States by six consecutive administrations; however, maintaining strong, unofficial relations with Taiwan also is in the U.S. interest. The United States is committed to these efforts because they are important for America's global position and for peace and stability in Asia. In keeping with its one-China policy, the U.S. does not support Taiwan independence. The U.S. supports Taiwan's membership in appropriate international organizations, such as the WTO, APEC forum, and the Asian Development Bank, where statehood is not a requirement for membership. In addition, the U.S. supports appropriate opportunities for Taiwan's voice to be heard in organizations where its membership is not possible.
www.state.gov... Note the site name.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Your absence on the threads regarding Russia and Chechnya are duly noted, as I see no one advocating: �Taiwan should be its own country free to pick its alliances and determine its own destiny.� Let me guess as to why, you would rather Russia control Chechnya than what you have come to believe are Muslim fanatics wanting independence.

AHem:

posted on 8-9-2004 at 14:18 Post Number: 787525 (post id: 808219) edit quote

quote: Originally posted by sweatmonicaIdo
YOU can take Taiwan as a commonwealth. I say we let them be free without any influence from us. Or China.

Actually I was kidding on that. But you are right. Taiwan should be its own country free to pick its alliances and determine its own destiny.

And yes I have posted in the Russia vs. Chechnya as well.

I repeat Taiwan belongs to China

Several posters have presented historical evidence that this may not be the case. Please check those out

And just FYI: My Daddy can beat up your daddy....






[edit on 8-9-2004 by FredT]

[edit on 8-9-2004 by FredT

[edit on 8-9-2004 by FredT]

keholms,
just that if a small few things had been dif it would now be enjoying 'Guam', 'American Somoa', 'Virgin Island' status .The KMT another dictatorial genius group got in the way. The full name of that territory of the U.S. is Commonwealth of Puerto Rico.

Bode

SomewhereinBetween
a) I posted regarding russia and chech
b) Point taken the US is not treaty bound, nice post.
c) I still believe that the more interesting question is what the US would do? I never believed that the US would go to war for a treaty. It would depend on the president in charge and what they wanted to do.

Taiwan is free till it decides it's own destiny !

Here is the Treaty of Shimonoseki .In this document the country of China gives up all rights to Taiwan.

Here is the Treaty of San Francisco. In this document, the Japanese give up all rights to Taiwan w/o ceding Taiwan to anyone.

It takes a treaty in international law to do anything .The KMT was told by Gen. MacArther by general order that they could occupy Taiwan. This does not equal a handover in international law. That occupation is over. Thank god.Taiwan in accordance with international law has the right to decide what it wants.

Somewhereinbetween knows nothing about the true status of Taiwan
'The U.S. does not support Taiwan Indepedence' is an ambiguous statement in that it leaves open the fact that they can just keep on a keepin' on in their freedom as is w/o a formal declaration, or declare and deal w/ it. In other words Taiwan has the move on that score. If you don't see that your blind.

A better picture of that status.

More of the same

China cedes it's rights over Taiwan In Perpetuity

Here is a today article about how Taiwan's military is open to public discourse:
www.etaiwannews.com...

This is a very good unbiased online paper of Taiwan. If you want to keep updated about what is on the minds of the Taiwanese , you should bookmark this:
www.taipeitimes.com...

I go there and read the whole paper everyday. I also have had letters to the editor published. You can search: Bode Bliss

The ones that come here and try to blur the lines on Taiwan's status. Don't read about Taiwan. Don't care about Taiwan. They're just filled w/ anger and want to vent propaganda.

I did not just stop there . I dug much deeper and consulted think tank experts by email. They agree w/ the articles I've pointed you to. The U.S.'s and most of the world's ,including the E.U.'s "one china' is not the same as the CCP's 'one china'. The U.S.'s "one china' is it acknowledges the CCP's position ,but does not agree w/ it. It's formal position is that the matter is undecided according to the San Francisco Treaty. The U.S.'s opinion of international law on this is, it's for Taiwan to decide it's status. When Taiwan gets ready to decide. Not when the CCP decides for Taiwan.

Bode Bliss

Ps: I say CCP(chinese communist party) because in China there is no other gov't.





[edit on 9/9/2004 by bodebliss]

The Taiwan Relations Act (TRA) makes it clear that we are bound up w/ Taiwan's safety and security.

ANZUS makes it clear that Australia and New Zealand are bound up w/ the U.S's commitments in the Pacific.

Bode Bliss

[edit on 9/9/2004 by bodebliss]

Originally posted by bodebliss


ANSUS makes it clear that Australia and New Zealand are bound up w/ the U.S's commitments in the Pacific.

Bode Bliss

ANZUS, doesn't bind Australia or NZ to US Commitments. NZ has already half pulled out of it after refusing entry to US Nuclear warships and the treaty will only be invoked if either Australia, US or NZ are attacked FIRST.

Japan , Russia, and India are beefing up and linking w/ the U.S. because of China. If China pulls the trigger all them nukes from all directions will head their way . No economy left, no chinese left, no exporting left, no history left, nothing left. Boy, I pitties the CCP leader that pulls the trigger.

Bode

D,
That's not what PM Howard said. He said ANZUS would have Australia there in lockstep w/ the U.S.

Article 5 states:

Article V

For the purpose of Article IV, an armed attack on any of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack on the metropolitan territory of any of the Parties, or on the island territories under its jurisdiction in the Pacific or on its armed forces, public vessels or aircraft in the Pacific.



Bode







[edit on 9/9/2004 by bodebliss]

The U.S. invaded Afganistan not to get Osama or the Taliban,but to keep the Central Asian Republics out of the CCP's sphere of influence.

When Bush made the axis of evil speech , what he did not say ,but implied is that the CCP is the hub of the axis.

Bode

[edit on 9/9/2004 by bodebliss]

one thing i have to ask is has china signed the human rights treaty?

R U Crazy...... That kind of war u might as well pity everyone as it will kill the world. I hope u still feel the same way sitting 100ft underground running out of uncontaminated water and food. Thats if u get into a bunker. Statements like that are just........Kennedy got it right and saved the world.....He was then murdered.......Why....Because the military wanted war war war war war. I know whos camp you would be in. Think before making statements that kill everyone on the planet except the cockroaches. MAD Mutually Assured Death and destruction. This statement MAD was not just designed for the Russians.

Anyway have a nice day.

HEY!
the military is not war hungry
do you think they WANT to go to war?
people may be in the military BUT they still are people.
the military did not kill kenedy and untill i see some proof i wont belive it.

Munro_,
I'm not crazy, I'm real. The point is the CCP is not living in a vaccum. Political structures all around the CCP are moving and not to their music. If they think otherwise, they are the fools.The U.S. asked India recently to retarget it's nukes. The central asian republics were leaning to the CCP , now not. Russia was not paying attention to the far east , now it is. The U.S. was doing nothing , now it's moving men and equipment. Australia did not have hardly a defense budget , now it is repairing that. The South Koreans did not have nukes , now they are working on it. Japan did not care about military affairs, now it does and it says it may need nukes ,too.

The U.S. has 8 ballistic missle subs in the Pacific each has 150 nukes.

Bode





[edit on 9/9/2004 by bodebliss]