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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 03:13 PM
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The 1989 Tiananmen Square Protests (Tiananmen Square Massacre or June 4th Massacre or 6/4 incident), were a series of student-led demonstrations held in Tiananmen Square in Beijing, the People's Republic of China, between April 15, 1989 and June 4, 1989. The protest denounced China's economic instability and political corruption and was violently suppressed by the PRC government.

The student's protest started from middle of April 1989, triggered by the death of Hu Yaobang, the stepped down party general secretary. Hu was widely seen as a liberal-minded person and was forced to resign from his position by Deng Xiaoping, an unfair treatment in many people's view, especially among intellectuals.

The protests began on a relatively small scale, in the form of mourning for the late Hu Yaobang and demands that the party revise their official view of him. The protests grew larger after news of confrontation between students and police spread - student belief that the Chinese media was distorting the nature of their activities also led to increased support. At Hu's funeral, a large group students gathered at Tiananmen square and requested, but failed, to meet premier Li Peng, widely regarded to be Hu's political rival. Thus students called for a strike in universities in Beijing. On April 26, an editorial in People's Daily, following an internal speech made by Deng Xiaoping, accused the students of plotting turmoil. The statement enraged the students, and on April 27 about 50,000 students went onto the streets of Beijing, ignoring the warning of a crackdown made by authorities and insisted that the government withdraw the statement.

On May 4, approximately 100,000 students and workers peacefully marched in Beijing making demands for free media reform and a formal dialogue between the authorities and student-elected representatives. The government rejected the proposed dialogue, only agreeing to talk to members of appointed student organizations. On May 13, large groups of students occupied Tiananmen square and started a hunger strike, demanding the government withdraw the accusation made in the People's Daily editorial and begin talks with the student representives. Hundreds of students went on hunger strike and were supported by hundreds of thousands of protesting students and residents of Beijing, which lasted for a week.

Although the government declared martial law on May 20, the demonstrations continued. After deliberating among Communist party leaders, the use of military force to resolve the crisis was ordered, and Zhao Ziyang was ousted from political leadership. Soldiers and tanks from the 27th and 38th Armies of the People's Liberation Army were sent to take control of the city. These forces were confronted by Chinese workers and students in the streets of Beijing and the ensuing violence resulted in both civilian and army deaths. The Chinese government acknowledged that a few hundred people died.

Estimates of civilian deaths which resulted vary: 400-800 (New York Times [1]), 1,000 (NSA), and 2,600 (Chinese Red Cross). Student protesters maintained that over 7,000 were killed. Following the violence, the government conducted widespread arrests to suppress the remaining supporters of the movement, limited access for the foreign press and controlled coverage of the events in the mainland Chinese press. The violent suppression of the Tiananmen Square protest caused widespread international condemnation of the PRC government.


en.wikipedia.org...

It seems to me Tiananmen was mostly about the Parties unfair ousting of Hu Yaobang then anything else or at least thats how it started. The USA does similar crackdowns on demonstrators too, I happen to recall when University students protesting were shot by US troops, lemme see....


The Kent State shootings, also known as May 4 or The Kent State Massacre, occurred at Kent State University in the city of Kent, Ohio, and involved the shooting of students by the Ohio National Guard on Monday, May 4, 1970. Over the course of four days, Kent State students protested against an American invasion of Cambodia which President Richard Nixon launched on April 25 and which Nixon announced in a television address on April 30. There were significant national consequences: hundreds of colleges closed throughout the US, and the event further divided the nation along political lines.


en.wikipedia.org...

Here, see America's double standards even go as far as this.

[edit on 21-10-2005 by The Middle Kingdom]




posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 06:17 PM
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No one wants to answer my quetsion?

So what if we have more nukes than china? SO WHAT? Does that mean we still won't lose millions of lives?For what? For what I ask you are you willing to trade millions of American lives for?



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 07:55 PM
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Originally posted by puri
That peanut is a Chinese peanut, not American peanut. So why can't the USA forget Taiwan: it's nothing compared to the potential of the land of America.


Hahaha...I am almost speechless. It is very true that Taiwan is peanut to US and China, but it is the ground Taiwanese live on.

So I think Taiwan is a priceless treasure to Taiwanese, a peanut to Chinese and American. But it doesn't belong to China or US.

So yea, I basically agree with Blobber.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 11:27 PM
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"To the 800 million Chinese who live only so far from poverty, such a lofty statement must appear absolutely meaningless.

While it was publishing its white paper, China spent 48 billion yuan (US$6 billion) on the launch of its Shenzhou VI spacecraft. Chinese media played their role dutifully, labeling the space mission and the government's drive to reform as a marvelous feat harking back to the halcyon days of the Han and Tang dynasties.

According to World Bank statistics, there are still around 200 million Chinese people living in abject poverty, with daily income of US$1.12. By contrast, the fortunes of the top 100 wealthiest people in China increased by 50 percent last year. However, China's media has never conducted a review of such an unfair phenomenon, for Big Brother will put whoever attempts to challenge national security behind bars.

Over the past 10 years, China's economy has grown at the rate of 9.5 percent per year. This has enriched some people and widened the gap between rich and poor.

Additionally, the number of protests in China increased to 74,000 last year from 10,000 in 1994, reflecting the country's unfair, unjust and corrupt development. That is, of course, the reason why the white paper stresses that economic development can only occur in a stable society. Put simply, a white paper trumpeting China's "democratic politics" is nothing more than a joke."

www.taipeitimes.com...

I agree w/ blobber and I foresee a time when China will walk away from this. They will just turn their backs and walk away.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
According to World Bank statistics, there are still around 200 million Chinese people living in abject poverty, with daily income of US$1.12. By contrast, the fortunes of the top 100 wealthiest people in China increased by 50 percent last year.


$1.12 a day is enough to survive in china.

Not a middle class life style but your average peasant.



However, China's media has never conducted a review of such an unfair phenomenon, for Big Brother will put whoever attempts to challenge national security behind bars.


The chinese government is addressing those problems is is always reported in the news.

Thats why they are investing billion on bilions of yuan into chinas western areas which haven't seen prosperity like their eastern cousins



Additionally, the number of protests in China increased to 74,000 last year from 10,000 in 1994, That is, of course, the reason why the white paper stresses that economic development can only occur in a stable society. Put simply, a white paper trumpeting China's "democratic politics" is nothing more than a joke."


Protest? where are they.

If chinas government is so blood thristy like you say bodebliss, why are there protest.?


reflecting the country's unfair, unjust and corrupt development.


Thats what happends in a market driven economy. you go where the money is.



posted on Oct, 21 2005 @ 11:55 PM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
Well you know the US will fight if it has too.

That's all you need to know.

The american public will support that.

It will be a short war filled with nuke exchanges.

You'll hurl your 23 nukes and we'll hurl our 7,000 10 megaton warheads.



For what I ask you are you willing to trade millions of American lives for?
Can someone please give me an answer?




haha bodebliss avoiding my question


[edit on 21-10-2005 by k4rupt]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by k4rupt

Originally posted by bodebliss
Well you know the US will fight if it has too.

That's all you need to know.

The american public will support that.

It will be a short war filled with nuke exchanges.

You'll hurl your 23 nukes and we'll hurl our 7,000 10 megaton warheads.



For what I ask you are you willing to trade millions of American lives for?
Can someone please give me an answer?




haha bodebliss avoiding my question


[edit on 21-10-2005 by k4rupt]


Nukes weren't really created to be used against other countries. They're use more for political reasons that anything else. So I don't think the US or China will ever get engaged in a nuclear war, because it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that both sides would lose.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by RK_Pr0t0c0l]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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But thats not why he's asking the question, and I see Bodebliss is doing an excellent job on ignoring something that is uncomfortable to look at since he knows it would invalidate everything he says.

Bodebliss commented on how the USA will annililate China in a war with nukes, right away no negotiations or debates etc, just murder 1.2 billion people it doesn't matter much after all they're only Yellow people /sarcasm.

Any sane person will know that any attempt to wipe out China would result in global warming and nuclear fall out which would kill hundreds of millions of people more possibly increase the number of dead to 3 billion and still heavily harm the USA.

That's why the war would be conventional and if it came to blows within 10-20 years we'ld win considering our military and economic buildup and the logistics involved.

Next, Bodebliss howabout commenting on how much you got pwned when I disproved your theory of the Long March not having been legendary?

And also, Bodebliss stop quoting the Taipei times its been widely acknoledged that its biased and exagerates the issues.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by The Middle Kingdom]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
But thats not why he's asking the question, and I see Bodebliss is doing an excellent job on ignoring something that is uncomfortable to look at since he knows it would invalidate everything he says.


I'm not avoiding anyone. I have a very busy lifestyle filled with many other activities.


Bodebliss commented on how the USA will annililate China in a war with nukes, right away no negotiations or debates etc, just murder 1.2 billion people it doesn't matter much after all they're only Yellow people /sarcasm.

Any sane person will know that any attempt to wipe out China would result in global warming and nuclear fall out which would kill hundreds of millions of people more possibly increase the number of dead to 3 billion and still heavily harm the USA.

That's why the war would be conventional and if it came to blows within 10-20 years we'ld win considering our military and economic buildup and the logistics involved.



That's a twisting of intent! Is that what the commizar of proper speech taught you? tsk! tsk!

I was asked if America will fight, and it will.

I was asked what the outcome would be, and it will be annihilation.

There is no clear cut way to contain conflict they escalate unexpectedly. A couple rounds fired at the border almost ended in a nuke exchange in Pakistan/India conflict over Kashmir(similar to Taiwan situ).



Next, Bodebliss howabout commenting on how much you got pwned when I disproved your theory of the Long March not having been legendary?

"pwned" is not a word




And also, Bodebliss stop quoting the Taipei times its been widely acknoledged that its biased and exagerates the issues.


The Taipei Times has won several awards for best online paper. It has won awards for truth in print.

I see no reason to quit using such links.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 10:21 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
"pwned" is not a word



That was really lame.

Why don't you start actually arguing the issue. I have not seen anything legitimate from you that much in this threat.

Change it up before this thread gets locked down.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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"pwned" may not be a word but its still used as common internet slang. Also I could similarily complain about your use of the word "comizar" I assume you meant commissar? Next, english is not my first language if there's some kind of grammar mistake well, your rants don't exactly deserve the nobel prize for literature either.

Next, you didn't answer his question, in fact you being from Cleveland and only 1 single individual could not possibly know the outcome of said war nor could you give even an inkling of what the American people would want, esp if only 20% of your people actually vote. You are one out of ~250,000,000 people you could not possibly know what the Americans could want nor could you possibly be stupid enough to think that America will gladly trade millions of lives for an island off the coast of China that is historically Chinese since the 1600's.

Finally you are ignoring the issue your nitpicking like some kind of grammar nazi on my grammar yet not on the content behind the grammar, your ignoring the evidence in fact your post has nothing to do with the debate your being partisan and evasive. We confront you with evidence and you ignore it and attack the next thing you can find wihtout admitting you were either A wrong, B misinformed or C lying.

Bodebliss you have no idea about what your talking about, the Taipei times regardless of is awards is biased, you are biased your arguements are garbage and when you post soemthing deliberately inflammatory like that skull and say your not accountable for your actions is awe inspiring in your bullsh*t.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
Bodebliss you have no idea about what your talking about, the Taipei times regardless of is awards is biased, you are biased your arguements are garbage and when you post soemthing deliberately inflammatory like that skull and say your not accountable for your actions is awe inspiring in your bullsh*t.


Can you show an instance where the Taipei Times was biased in regards to the China issue?

Just curious, that's all.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:16 PM
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I recall a while back when someone else stated it on this very forum I'm sorry if I can't supply a link but I'll avoid mention of it as biased until I can supply said link if you wish.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
I recall a while back when someone else stated it on this very forum I'm sorry if I can't supply a link but I'll avoid mention of it as biased until I can supply said link if you wish.


As much as I don't like undue harassment and assault on China, I also don't believe in undue accusations of bias, etc.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 02:00 PM
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Originally posted by bodebliss

Originally posted by The Middle Kingdom
But thats not why he's asking the question, and I see Bodebliss is doing an excellent job on ignoring something that is uncomfortable to look at since he knows it would invalidate everything he says.


I'm not avoiding anyone. I have a very busy lifestyle filled with many other activities.


Bodebliss commented on how the USA will annililate China in a war with nukes, right away no negotiations or debates etc, just murder 1.2 billion people it doesn't matter much after all they're only Yellow people /sarcasm.

Any sane person will know that any attempt to wipe out China would result in global warming and nuclear fall out which would kill hundreds of millions of people more possibly increase the number of dead to 3 billion and still heavily harm the USA.

That's why the war would be conventional and if it came to blows within 10-20 years we'ld win considering our military and economic buildup and the logistics involved.



That's a twisting of intent! Is that what the commizar of proper speech taught you? tsk! tsk!

I was asked if America will fight, and it will.

I was asked what the outcome would be, and it will be annihilation.

There is no clear cut way to contain conflict they escalate unexpectedly. A couple rounds fired at the border almost ended in a nuke exchange in Pakistan/India conflict over Kashmir(similar to Taiwan situ).



Next, Bodebliss howabout commenting on how much you got pwned when I disproved your theory of the Long March not having been legendary?

"pwned" is not a word




And also, Bodebliss stop quoting the Taipei times its been widely acknoledged that its biased and exagerates the issues.


The Taipei Times has won several awards for best online paper. It has won awards for truth in print.

I see no reason to quit using such links.



Anyone else notice he just completely evaded my question yet again?

Bodebliss, I suggest you to take back that ignorant comment about nuking China or answer my question. For the fourth time, What are you wliling to trade millions of American lives for?



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 03:23 PM
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I think he's willing to trade millions of American lives for the illusion of American greatness on the international stage which is based off of the edge of a knife atm.



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 04:36 PM
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"What are you wliling to trade millions of American lives for?"

lol:what are you willing to trade a billion chinese for?
:

America is always ready to go nukes. Just remember that.

There is nothing else you need to know about that.

You have nothing ! Are you sitting in your mud hut and walking barefoot to the local internet cafe? Where you type a few words of hate for America and pay $10 which was all your earnings for the day!


Well, do you?

Or is the CCP paying your way?



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Now that is a groundless accusation, your assuming automatically without evidence that we are trolls paid for by the CCP!? I do this on my spare time you Chou Zi! China has stated over and over again that they would not use nukes first in a war and if you understood what that means you'ld know that means the only people to use the nukes would the United Provinces of America and if they use them first then we would respond in kind. Mutually Assured Destruction Doctrine American brilliance in action I suppose.

It would be only American's who would be stupid enough to start a nuclear war, we would only end it.

And you aren't worth my time to tell you how much I earn in the PLA.

[edit on 22-10-2005 by The Middle Kingdom]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 05:42 PM
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First of all Bodebliss, I am a proud American born and raised in San Francisco okay? Second of all, you are a retard. Whats wrong with you? Honestly what in Gods name is wrong with you? All you can talk about is trading lives... death... You are willing to sacrifice the lives of a milion americans for a billion chinese lives just like that? WHY?! What are you willing to sacrifice a million American lives for?

Yet again Bodebliss, you have avoided answering my question... I hope to God no one else sees things the way he does...

[edit on 22-10-2005 by k4rupt]

[edit on 22-10-2005 by k4rupt]



posted on Oct, 22 2005 @ 06:02 PM
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San Fran? Is it true you only have a hummer and 2 national gaurds men defending both sides of Heaven's Gate Bridge?



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