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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:29 AM
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Originally posted by twchang

"We?" You are in CCP? or You fought WW2?


we as in communist



CCP history is not accurate. How effective was the "gureilla" war? Did they actually fought? or just run?


and what is accurate? western anti-communist histrorians?

They developed a new tactic for communist guriellas.

"kill all burn all loot all"

the japanse were so frustrated by the communist attacks they just killed everyone they found.

if people run then why would they use this tactic





No, but there are records that CCP attack KMT's back after the Japanese attack. Or that they are not helping out during fight.


KMT records




posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
Chinese can't fight, Especially the CCP (hidding in the Hills. Let others do their fighting).

"The CCP mostly fought guerilla attacks in rural area in North China. It would later give them credence to win them support in the Chinese Civil War. "


yeah because of all their attacks and ambuses on the japanese the CCP showed the general population that they were actually fighting instead of hiding in chongqing. waiting for americans



Without the US bringing the fight to Japan, supporting the corrupt KMT and CCP, and making the Japanese surrender, the Japanese would have annihilated China. Ha, Chinese did so poorly they weren't even invited to the surrender ceremony on the battleship Missouri in Tokyo Bay.


The reason the japanese attacked america was because they knew they couldn't win in china.........................

because it was a stalemate.


one fact you forgot to mention.







China can't fight!


Korean War

longest american retreat in history. by X corps


America with overwheming airpower. a massive naval frce. and infantry with firepower chinese have never dreamed of.

and guess what a stalemate



[edit on 10-9-2005 by chinawhite]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:36 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
All this proves that a small united country Like Taiwan could defeat China!


how this prove anything??



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 02:48 AM
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twchang and bodebliss dont seem to know what a guerilla is



A member of an irregular, usually indigenous military or paramilitary unit operating in small bands in occupied territory to harass and undermine the enemy, as by surprise raids.


yes they do hide. they dont operate in large groups but work on harassing behind the lines.

thats what peopel do when they dont have a rifle or are againest overwhelming ods.

examples of this are vietnam iraq afganistan.

Vietnam-Gave america its first ever defeat in a war.

Afganistan-Defeated the Soviet union. At the time it had the worlds strongest army.

Iraq-gving the high tech american army a good work out with home made bombs and 50year old RPGs



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:33 AM
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Chinese Strategy

Compared to Japan, China was unprepared for war and had little military industrial strength, few mechanized divisions, and virtually no armor support. Up until the mid 1930s China had hoped that the League of Nations would provide countermeasures to Japan's aggression. In addition, the Kuomintang government was mired in an internal war against the Communists. All these disadvantages forced China to adopt a strategy whose first goal was to preserve its army strength, whereas a full frontal assault on the enemy would often prove to be suicidal. Also, pockets of resistance were to be continued in occupied areas to pester the enemy and make their administration over the vast lands of China difficult. These formed the basis of Chinese strategy during the war, which can be divided into three periods:

* First Period: 7 July 1937 (Battle of Lugou Bridge) - 25 October 1938 (Fall of Hankou).
o In this period, one key concept is the trading of "space for time" (Chinese: 以空间换取时间). The Chinese army would put up token fights to delay Japanese advance to northeastern cities, to allow the home front, along with its professionals and key industries, to retreat further west into Chongqing to build up military strength.
* Second Period: 25 October 1938 (Fall of Hankou) - July, 1944
o During the second period, the Chinese army adopted the concept of "magnetic warfare" to attract advancing Japanese troops to definite points where they were subjected to ambush, flanking attacks, and encirclements in major engagements. The most prominent example of this tactic is the successful defense of Changsha (长沙) numerous times.
* Third Period: July 1944 - 15 August 1945
o This period employs general full frontal counter-offensive.

The three periods are each divided into finer phases.


www.answers.com...

[edit on 10-9-2005 by chinawhite]



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:36 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

its 10km difference between a CATEGORY 4 and 3. is that a big difference.


Talim didn't hit China has a Category three, it hit TAIWAN as a category three, and Taiwan's response was great because of Taiwan's vast experience with hurricanes hitting the east coast.

It was a marginal category one storm when it hit China. Taiwan often acts as a shield for China because oftentimes, typhoons hit Taiwan first, Taiwan, having the highest mountains in East Asia, weakens the storms before they hit China. Unfortunately for Zhejiang (though not for Taiwan), Khunan will NOT be weakened by Taiwan.


No. under the discovery law


China didn't discover the East China Sea and South China Sea. Vietnamese fishermen have been fishing the Spratley's since at least before the Chinese were. Also, in 1928, China's government itself stated that the Paracell Islands were the southernmost limits of its territory, NOT the Spratley's



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:44 AM
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as you can see. china was about to launch their attacks in 1945. but the war ended. which was unexpected for everyone including the US.

if the war went into 1946.the japanese wouldn't have been on the mainland anymore.

In 9 days the soviets defeated 1million japanese soldiers.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


And this is the reason why the communist didn't attack japan.

example why

I gave you a pitchfork and i had a machine gun. who will win?

of course its me but you can still win againest a machine gun. you go and hide and wait to ambush me.

If you ambush me and you kill me you now have a pitchfork and a machine gun. you can now give the pitch fork to someone else.

you have to slowly build up your strength.



THats how you would fight againest the japanese. you didn't have rifles you didn't have artillery. all you had was homemade equipment until you captured a gun. thats the life of a guerilla



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:50 AM
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Allot of myths in China's history books.

"Chinese historians in the academy, like their counterparts abroad, have steadily chipped away at Mao's myth, and the falling chunks have inevitably included many details about Yenan. Far from the idyll celebrated here, the historians say, Mao waged a campaign of political terror against youthful dissenters, perfecting methods of purging real and imagined foes that would be used on a vast scale later. He sold opium to raise money for his army, and it was here that he created his suffocating cult of personality.

"Mao: The Unknown Story," a heavily researched book published recently by Jung Chang, a Chinese writer who lives in Britain, goes so far as to say that the most legendary act of bravery of the entire Long March, the crossing of the Dadu bridge, while enemy gunners took aim from the opposite bank, was fiction. In China, that is the equivalent of saying Washington never led his troops across the Delaware.

That is not all. Far from committed Communists, Ms. Chang writes, many of the marchers were press-ganged captives(slaves), and Mao is said to have been carried throughout much of the Long March on a litter by porters, as he read at his leisure. And although Mao's troops were decimated, not a single senior party member was killed or even seriously wounded. "You can't say the Long March was a military victory," said Yang Kuisong, a historian at Beijing University. "It was not about fighting battles. It was a process of running away."

Ordinary Chinese have been carefully shielded from views like this of their late leader, however. Mao's importance to the party he founded remains paramount, even as the founding ideology, Marxism, fades."

Mao : inept, corrupt leader!

theseoultimes.com.../ST/db/read.php?idx=2114



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by ludahai
Talim didn't hit China has a Category three, it hit TAIWAN as a category three, and Taiwan's response was great because of Taiwan's vast experience with hurricanes hitting the east coast.


144km winds are still deadly.

whats the difference if it goes that much quicker?



It was a marginal category one storm when it hit China. Taiwan often acts as a shield for China because oftentimes, typhoons hit Taiwan first, Taiwan, having the highest mountains in East Asia, weakens the storms before they hit China. Unfortunately for Zhejiang (though not for Taiwan), Khunan will NOT be weakened by Taiwan.


you make it sound as if taiwan volunteers for the job.





China didn't discover the East China Sea and South China Sea. Vietnamese fishermen have been fishing the Spratley's since at least before the Chinese were.


1000years ago. vietnam was part of china




Also, in 1928, China's government itself stated that the Paracell Islands were the southernmost limits of its territory, NOT the Spratley's



the government of 1928 didn't even control 1/10 of china and its making claims


anyway please show me this statement by this government



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

The word chinese refers to chinas 56 ethnic groups that live in china. each one of them contributed to chinas long history and culture.

The dominanting group of course is the HAN chinese but other goups eg.

Manchu and mongolian were also dominating at one time in chians history

Chinese is not just Han chinese



WONDERFUL, more revionist Chinese higwash.

Do you actually UNDERSTAND Chinese history? Mongols weren't considered Chinese, they were considered INVADERS when the Jin and then the SOuthern Song were toppled by the invaders from the northern steppes. The Chinese were treated as third and fourth class citizens (LITERALLY) depending if they were from the north (Jin - itself controlled by a non-Chinese ancestors of the Manchus) and the Southern Song respectively. The Chinese also regarded the Mongols as barbarians, partially for repulsive habits such as drinking animal milk.

Similiarly with the Manchu's, they were also considered outsiders. In the late ninteenth century, when Chinese revolutionaries were trying to overthrow the Qing, they regarded the Manchus as foreigners.

Most of Mongolia fell out of the control of the Ming Dynasty, and while the Manchu conquered most of it back, most was again lost shortly following the fall of the Ming Dynasty.

Regardless of the ChiCom propoganda you spout, most people will not and DO not consider groups like the Tibetans, Uigers, and Mongols as Chinese. Of the groups mentioned in this series of posts, only the Manchus have truly become assimilated, and that is only in the last 40 years.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:08 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

144km winds are still deadly.

whats the difference if it goes that much quicker?


you make it sound as if taiwan volunteers for the job.


Not volunteers mind you. We would just as rather have the typhoons miss us, as it appears Khunan will. There is a significant difference in not only the damage the winds that a weak Cat 1 and a strong Cat 3 (as Talim was when it hit Taiwan with winds well in excess of 200 kph) but also the rainfall. Taiwan's mountains through the process of orographic precipitation drain the system of a significant amount of water that would result in rainfall later on in China if it didn't land in Taiwan first.

For you to compare a weak Cat 1 storm with a strong Cat 4 (nearly Cat 5) that hit low lying areas along the Gulf Coast simply isn't tenable.



1000years ago. vietnam was part of china


Only the northern part. The middle part was dominated by the Chams, an austronesian people descended from Taiwanese natives, and the southern part was dominated by the Khmer people.



the government of 1928 didn't even control 1/10 of china and its making claims


Also not true, the ROC government had control over more than half of China's legitimate territory at that time and had established a central government at Nanjing.


anyway please show me this statement by this government

It isn't online, it was in a couple of books (one in English, one in traditional CHinese characters) that I consulted when I was doing research for my master's thesis on the legal status of Taiwan.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:12 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite



They kill Tibetans armed with spears and bow n' arrows.


that were causing a uprising



You mean Tibetans rising up against the illegal and brutal occupation of their homeland?



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

In 9 days the soviets defeated 1million japanese soldiers.



Those one million Japanese soldiers were hardly the cream of the Japanese Army. They had been pulled back to defend the home islands. Those defending Manchukuo were raw recruits, most little more than kids.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
Far from the idyll celebrated here, the historians say, Mao waged a campaign of political terror against youthful dissenters, perfecting methods of purging real and imagined foes that would be used on a vast scale later.


ok. making things up.

a first hand account of communist life by a westerner.

Edgar Snow's
"Red Star over China"


Snow's epic recounting of months spent with China's Red Army during the Civil War. Includes extensive biographical material on numerous players on all sides of the conflict as well as an inspiring telling of the Long March. Snow also describes in detail the Red Army's political, organisational and military tactics (obviously repeated in Vietnam against the French and Americans, with similar results.)

Snow was granted unfettered access to all levels of the Chinese Communist Party as well as Red Army officers, soldiers, peasants. The result is a fascinating insider look at the agrarian revolution in China, socially, politcally, philosophically and, of course, militarily.


www.synaptic.bc.ca...

www.amazon.com...


Its easy to lie about things after they happen. but first hand accounts of netural sources dont lie.


unlike what you read made by people that hate communist





He sold opium to raise money for his army, and it was here that he created his suffocating cult of personality.


sold opium??

most of the PLA soldiers were ex-opium addicts that were helped to get rid of their addiction.

chinas most important general Zhu-De was a ex-opium addict. helped out of that lifestyle.

after the civil was drug lords drug growers, triads were rounded up and exucuted or re-educated.


the most legendary act of bravery of the entire Long March, the crossing of the Dadu bridge, while enemy gunners took aim from the opposite bank, was fiction. In China, that is the equivalent of saying Washington never led his troops across the Delaware.


there are pictures and a movie clip of these acts.

so i dont know how these guys come up with things they do.


Its just like some holocaust deniers



That is not all. Far from committed Communists, Ms. Chang writes, many of the marchers were press-ganged captives(slaves),


please. if they were captives they could easily have run from the communist durgin the long march



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:31 AM
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Originally posted by ludahai
Do you actually UNDERSTAND Chinese history? Mongols weren't considered Chinese, they were considered INVADERS when the Jin and then the SOuthern Song were toppled by the invaders from the northern steppes. The Chinese were treated as third and fourth class citizens (LITERALLY) depending if they were from the north (Jin - itself controlled by a non-Chinese ancestors of the Manchus) and the Southern Song respectively. The Chinese also regarded the Mongols as barbarians, partially for repulsive habits such as drinking animal milk.


Its the term "chinese". it refers to the ethnic groups inside chinas borders.

chinese dont even call themselves chinese but middle kingdom. china is a term made by westerners.

And mongolian is a ethnic group within the PRC just like HAN chinese




Regardless of the ChiCom propoganda you spout, most people will not and DO not consider groups like the Tibetans, Uigers, and Mongols as Chinese. Of the groups mentioned in this series of posts, only the Manchus have truly become assimilated, and that is only in the last 40 years.


Most people?

you did a survey now



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:45 AM
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Originally posted by ludahai
Those one million Japanese soldiers were hardly the cream of the Japanese Army. They had been pulled back to defend the home islands. Those defending Manchukuo were raw recruits, most little more than kids.


the cream. haha. If hitler and the NAZI power house couldn't defeat the Red Army what chance did japan have

remeber battle of Halhin Gol. that was the japanese cream. totally defeated.

this is the reason the japanese didnt enter the war with hitler againest the soviet union.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:53 AM
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Originally posted by ludahai
Not volunteers mind you. We would just as rather have the typhoons miss us, as it appears Khunan will.


then why do you bring it up?




There is a significant difference in not only the damage the winds that a weak Cat 1 and a strong Cat 3 (as Talim was when it hit Taiwan with winds well in excess of 200 kph) but also the rainfall. Taiwan's mountains through the process of orographic precipitation drain the system of a significant amount of water that would result in rainfall later on in China if it didn't land in Taiwan first.


theres no real difference between a Cat 1 and Cat 3.
www.katc.com...

well in excess of 200kmh?





Only the northern part. The middle part was dominated by the Chams, an austronesian people descended from Taiwanese natives, and the southern part was dominated by the Khmer people.


can you tell me what dates do the vietnamese claim to have discovered the islands




Also not true, the ROC government had control over more than half of China's legitimate territory at that time and had established a central government at Nanjing.


not true. these lands weren't contolled by the KMT but by friendly warloads.


It isn't online, it was in a couple of books (one in English, one in traditional CHinese characters)


Names would be nice



that I consulted when I was doing research for my master's thesis on the legal status of Taiwan.


F from me.



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 04:55 AM
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Originally posted by ludahai
You mean Tibetans rising up against the illegal and brutal occupation of their homeland?


why wait 9years to start your war. did it take that long to think it over

pre-1959. what tibetian deaths?



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 09:17 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
China has carried out at least 1,781 executions last year more than the rest of the world combined.

China has the largest prison camps on Earth mostly for the financial gain of gov't officials.


And?

They have 1/5th of the population.


Source
At the end of 1991 an unprecedented 2,547 prisoners were under sentence of death in 34 states, under US federal military law and under US federal civilian law.


The only reason China kills off more is because its Court System is a lot quicker - even with the introduction of juries they'll not have years of waiting in prison between one court and the next due to costs.

America had in 1992, 800 more people waiting to be killed by the State than China killed last year...



posted on Sep, 10 2005 @ 10:45 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
and what is accurate? western anti-communist histrorians?

They developed a new tactic for communist guriellas.

"kill all burn all loot all"

the japanse were so frustrated by the communist attacks they just killed everyone they found.

if people run then why would they use this tactic



Again, CCP history is not accurate, that is the truth.



KMT records


Perhaps it comes from KMT records, perhaps not. In any case, both KMT and CCP are not fighting Japanese effectively as they try to expand their influence and stockpile resources for possible later conflicts between each others.

Just look at both CCP and KMT records you will see conflicting reports, exegerations..etc.

But overall, the main efforts in fighting the Japanese still come from the US.



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