Can China Invade Taiwan?

Originally posted by chinawhite
which systems does the taiwanese navy have?. do they have stingers?

do you mean the anti-aircraft guns like on naval ships.? like the Phalanx system.

Don't know if they have stingers, but they have Standard Missiles 1, Sea Sparrows and others anti-aircrafts missiles I think. I think every frigates and destroyers are equiped with SAM. The Kidd class destroyers will also have a good air defense capability I think.

No, probably not as large as Phalanx. It is not designed to stop missiles, so it doesn't spread bullets all over the place in a short period of time. I think it is designed to shot at slower moving targets like low flying aircrafts or heli.


[edit on 28-8-2005 by twchang]

Originally posted by NUKE_BOOOSTER
And now China is doing what she could to make all the people out of poverty.

Like what?

Confiscating peasants land to build grand prix tracks, offering no compensation or re-training or re-settlement?

Or ordering what crops farmers can plant, thereby guaranteeing them no profit or room for growth?

How about moving whole communities so you can build the world's largest hydro-electric dam, which even before it is finished is experiencing problems (and which some traditional Chinese are equating to "waking the dragon"), which will have a massive negative impact on nations downstream?

If you are a resident of Shanghai you may have a way out of poverty...pity about the "hinterland".

Originally posted by chinawhite
you cant blame the chinese government for the low cost wages. these companys are owned by westerners.

china sets there minimum wage at 75 cent a hour.

Then why isn't China enforcing its own laws?

The government of China is to blame for this situation. If the western-owned companies are at fault, why isn't the government pursuing them through the courts?

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Then why isn't China enforcing its own laws?
The government of China is to blame for this situation. If the western-owned companies are at fault, why isn't the government pursuing them through the courts?

you have to look at the bigger picture.

its a handful of western compaines that take advantage of chinese workers not the whole lot. if they start handing out fines they will scare off forigen investment

every year 20-22million people are reaching the age where they will need a job. the chinese government cant supply all these jobs. we need western compaines to provide those jobs.

This number is the size of the australian population. try to see if this is possible without foriegn help. this is not including the number already employed by western firms.

Originally posted by twchang
I am what you call a BSR. But in my opinion, there is no need to distinct BSR and WSR. Especially when the most WSR in Taiwan now are 2nd and 3rd generations. The only reason to distinguish the groups is perhaps when you talk about histories.

WSR are more different from BSR. this is from personal experience but WSR seem to be a lot more educated and richer.


You have admitted yourself that you have never been to fujian. but then you go on saying that their culture is different.

i personally been to taiwan and fujian. the difference is not big enough to claim its a different culture.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Confiscating peasants land to build grand prix tracks, offering no compensation or re-training or re-settlement?

they do give compensation. my autie got her house confiscated to build a road. her house was a 2bedroom house with no running water and elecrity. now she lives in a much bigger house with 3 rooms elecritiy and running water..


was it farm land where the grandprix track is? from what i read that land was un-used

Or ordering what crops farmers can plant, thereby guaranteeing them no profit or room for growth?

no, the government encourages them to grow class crops. vegetables, fruit etc.

this is one of the problems why china has a declining grain harvest

which will have a massive negative impact on nations downstream?

nations?

Taiwan's ruling party has dreamed of making this self-governing island a sovereign state - but analysts say that's highly unlikely, due to threats from China and a lack of support from Taiwan's main protector, the United States.

Taiwan has achieved de facto independence, forming its own government, issuing its own currency and developing modern armed forces.

But successive governments have stopped short of declaring formal independence because China, which still insists the island is part of its territory, has threatened to take Taiwan by force if it ever tries to formally break from the mainland.

While being careful not to provoke his giant neighbor into attacking, Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) has pushed the envelope more than previous leaders.

Sheng and other analysts of Taiwanese politics point to recent polls indicating that only about 15 percent of island residents now describe themselves as enthusiastic independence advocates.

They say another 10-15 percent - almost all identified with the opposition Nationalist Party or one of its satellites - support unification with the mainland, while a consistent majority favors maintaining the status quo.

www.etaiwannews.com...

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by NUKE_BOOOSTER
GDP in China was clearly an evidence, dude!! So, are you scare now or are you feel threatened? Why not the US write another report about China's economy threat? The fact had just started, more to go and more fear for the US.

Yes Yes, Lets take a look. Forget that the huge exonomic growth is being fueled by ultra cheap labor, forget the fact that there is a huge use of prision labor, forget the fact that massive pollution and contamination of potable water and the environment is going on, forget the fact that population controll is cutting into A) The female to male ration and B) the super cheap labor pool, forget the fact that Yuan is artificaly kept low to boost exports, forget all of that and what do you have? Quite simply nothing.

China's booming econmy will last only so long as as cheap labor source is avalible. Remember when the Japanese economy was going to rule the world? Or the EU? etc. etc. RIng a bell?

I have 5 minutes [P.C. is ruined and having to use one at a Lan Cafe] but wasn't this how America got to the top?

They exploited people for well over 100years, boosting their economy to the point where it would keep on growing over a set period. In fact the slave labour America used was a lot worse.

The Chinese family's can afford to live on £0.75 an hour - although not to a level we all would like, but to a level which was much higher than slavery in Europe and America in the 1800's and 1900's.

ChinaWhite wrote: While being careful not to provoke his giant neighbor into attacking, Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) has pushed the envelope more than previous leaders.

Sheng and other analysts of Taiwanese politics point to recent polls indicating that only about 15 percent of island residents now describe themselves as enthusiastic independence advocates.

They say another 10-15 percent - almost all identified with the opposition Nationalist Party or one of its satellites - support unification with the mainland, while a consistent majority favors maintaining the status quo.

I'd want to maintain the "Status Quo" too if I had 700 missles pointed at me.

The truth about Taiwan is they would declare independence tomorrow and join the UN were it not for the CCP.

Hehe, it just provides a good execute for China to take TwaiWan back by force.
1. TwaiWan can't defend itself without U.S's help.
2. U.S will take the risk of losing the whole carrier goups and hundreds of thousand soldier's life in TwaiWan strait if it want to join the war
From the latest war game of China and Russia, I already see that China's anti-ship missile technology has been improved a lot.

PLA currently has the ability to lunch serval missiles from one place on land(or one boat) at the same time and they hit all targets 300KM away very accurately. If China lunch 100 missiles towards US's carrier from different directions at one time I guess no anti-missile system can defend it successfully

Originally posted by bodebliss

ChinaWhite wrote: While being careful not to provoke his giant neighbor into attacking, Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) has pushed the envelope more than previous leaders.

Sheng and other analysts of Taiwanese politics point to recent polls indicating that only about 15 percent of island residents now describe themselves as enthusiastic independence advocates.

They say another 10-15 percent - almost all identified with the opposition Nationalist Party or one of its satellites - support unification with the mainland, while a consistent majority favors maintaining the status quo.

I'd want to maintain the "Status Quo" too if I had 700 missles pointed at me.

The truth about Taiwan is they would declare independence tomorrow and join the UN were it not for the CCP.

[edit on 29-8-2005 by google_abcd]

How to delete a post here? Can't find the "Delete" option but only "Edit" one

[edit on 29-8-2005 by google_abcd]

I'm real upset that nobody has gone outside the box and tried to answer my question regarding the cultural and social consequences of a war or rivalry with China would have, but so be it...

Since all of you are obsessed with the fighting, I just considered something. Should the U.S. and China face off in a military situation, the U.S. would most likely use Taiwan as a staging base, correct? I just realized, normal U.S. deployments in a large-scale conventional war, such as the Persian Gulf War or the Iraq War require anywhere from 200,000 to 500,000 U.S. troops. The U.S. deployed around 500,000 in the Gulf War, as opposed to around 250,000 in the Iraq War (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG). 500,000 is a massive number, yet in the scheme of facing off against China, that number seems like nothing, especially when those 500,000 would be facing off against nearly 2 million Chinese troops, who are further backed up by the nearly 1.5 billion Chinese citizens who are determined, patriotic, and hungry for the gifts of life.

Given this situation, the U.S. would most likely utilize and extended air campaign, but eventually you gotta put troops on the ground, and I'm wondering, where is the U.S. gonna get enough men to even reach 500 million?

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Then why isn't China enforcing its own laws?
The government of China is to blame for this situation. If the western-owned companies are at fault, why isn't the government pursuing them through the courts?

you have to look at the bigger picture.

its a handful of western compaines that take advantage of chinese workers not the whole lot. if they start handing out fines they will scare off forigen investment

every year 20-22million people are reaching the age where they will need a job. the chinese government cant supply all these jobs. we need western compaines to provide those jobs.

This number is the size of the australian population. try to see if this is possible without foriegn help. this is not including the number already employed by western firms.

No, by enforcing the law you encourage investment, not scare it off. Handing out fines to companies that are obviously breaking the law encourages investment, it tells investors that corruption is under control and business runs smoothly and those that obey the law will do even more business.

That's like saying we can't afford to fix the problem in the car, but we can afford the damages from lawsuits.

In Taiwan they actually exploit immigrant workers, not their own. So clearly they have their own people's interests much more at heart than a buch of American consumers.

Originally posted by chinawhite

was it farm land where the grandprix track is? from what i read that land was un-used

Back in '96 what I was reading said Zhuhai was rice paddy and the farmers weren't compensated.

no, the government encourages them to grow class crops. vegetables, fruit etc.

this is one of the problems why china has a declining grain harvest

Uh huh, then why are we reading stories about farmers who have been instructed to grow certain crops for years, crops which do not engender large profits, crops which guarantee the farmers remain poor, instead of being allowed to join the boom? Which means as China's GDP increases they will actually get poorer.

nations?

Follow the water, tell me where it leads.

China has refused repeatedly to join the MRC because that would limit what it can do to its portion of that river, instead it continues to disregard the collective voices of the MRC. One major impact that damming the Mekong will have will be the end of the Tonle Sap's annual reversal in Cambodia, that will prevent the Tonle Sap lake from re-filling and will prevent it from repopulating with fish. And that's just the start.

Given such imperialist attitudes, it's not surprising that China continually rattles its rusty sabre at Taiwan. But it isn't ready to invade yet. Otherwise it's rhetoric wouldn't continually refer to only aiming at Taiwan "splittists" (there is no such word), they are scared of Taiwanese public opinion.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
Back in '96 what I was reading said Zhuhai was rice paddy and the farmers weren't compensated.

nope. it was marsh land.

Uh huh, then why are we reading stories about farmers who have been instructed to grow certain crops for years, crops which do not engender large profits, crops which guarantee the farmers remain poor, instead of being allowed to join the boom? Which means as China's GDP increases they will actually get poorer.

these farmers are government employed. some tokk there land and used it for private use. some stayed with the government and got government money, a pension, cheaper taxs(china has no argicultural tax). free medical care. education for their children

but the bad thing is that they have no way to make profit. but there life is guranteed.

Follow the water, tell me where it leads.

you mean the Yangtze?. it leads right to shanghai.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
No, by enforcing the law you encourage investment, not scare it off. Handing out fines to companies that are obviously breaking the law encourages investment, it tells investors that corruption is under control and business runs smoothly and those that obey the law will do even more business.

why would western compaines want to paid more for the sae standard of work?.

by increasing their pay the workers productivity is not going to go any higher

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
No, by enforcing the law you encourage investment, not scare it off. Handing out fines to companies that are obviously breaking the law encourages investment, it tells investors that corruption is under control and business runs smoothly and those that obey the law will do even more business.

why would western compaines want to paid more for the sae standard of work?.

by increasing their pay the workers productivity is not going to go any higher

No, you have to buy off the local authorities. The more factories you have the more you have to buy off.

Live in a country riddled by corruption and then tell me that foreign companies increase their profits through corruption.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Follow the water, tell me where it leads.

you mean the Yangtze?. it leads right to shanghai.

Three Gorges is on the Yangtze? I happen to know at the AIPO summit recently (last 12 months recent!) one participant demanded to know from the Chinese what guarantee they could give that in a conflict with China Taiwan would not blow up the Three Gorges project, releasing millions of megalitres of water to flow downstream and wreak havoc and destruction on other ASEAN members.

Said question was removed from the official transcript as released at the end of the meeting, because China refused to allow any mention of Taiwan to be seen as having been made.

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV

Three Gorges is on the Yangtze?

yes it is. the water would need to travel 600miles to reach any of chians neighbours. that is the minimum distance

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
No, you have to buy off the local authorities. The more factories you have the more you have to buy off.

oh i get what you mean now.

but from the figures of chinas GDP you can see most people are making around 75cents a hour. not the 3cents posted before.

Live in a country riddled by corruption and then tell me that foreign companies increase their profits through corruption.

im not really sure. but the brides in the short run will problay pay off