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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:53 PM
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you cant blame the chinese government for the low cost wages. these companys are owned by westerners.

china sets there minimum wage at 75 cent a hour.

if these were the average conditions of chinese workers. you wouldn't see consumer goods sold in china. the reality is that on chinas coastal region wages are rising along with the middle class.

pointing out some "slave" labour camps and blaming the chinese government is not thr right thing to do. blame the big western corporations running these camps.


The report includes a description of Wal-Mart's contract with the Qin Shi Factory to make their line of Kathie Lee handbags. Workers are held in indentured servitude as they work 14-hour shifts, 7 days a week, 30 days a month. They bring home 3 cents an hour, a total of $3.10 for a 98-hour workweek. Because they are charged for room and board, which consists of 16 people to a dorm room and two dismal meals a day, some employees end up owing the factory money at the end of the month.


if a average chinese worker was making 3cents a hour they would be under the poverty line. 100million people are still under the poverty line in china. but this is misleading because of the workers employed by the government which do not pay for house school fees. the poverty line is set at $365 a year.



As far a pollution goes, the US may crank out alot of CO2 etc, but nowhere near has the envrionmental problems that CHina has from acid rain to polluted water etc. I can provide you link after link after link.


i can also provide links.



The US contains 4% of the world's population but produces about 25% of all carbon dioxide emissions. By comparison, Britain emits 3% - about the same as India which has 15 times as many people.

news.bbc.co.uk...



U.S. singled out as world's largest polluter at Hague conference

archives.cnn.com...

Carbon Dioxide Emissions of the three biggest polluters:

-------------------------- The USA- EU Countries - China - Total

Population of world:--- 4.6% - 6.3% - 21% - 31.9%

World economy: ---- 30% - 23% - 3.2% - 56.2%

CO2 Emissions: ---- 24% - 14% - 13% - 51%

www.vexen.co.uk...


im assuming that america has more pollution problems than china because their produce a lot more pollution.


you were saying?


[edit on 27-8-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 27-8-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 27-8-2005 by chinawhite]

[edit on 27-8-2005 by chinawhite]




posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Yes we have all seen the wonderfull conditions that every Chinese lives in. But one has to wonder if that is simply the communist propaganda machine at work here.


because these articles are not reported by chinese media but by western media.



If it is such a utopia, why the mad cleanup before the Olympics?


of course china has its problems. but did i say they didn't. i only pointed out that america is the worse



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:08 PM
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Again you strawman with the CO2 pollution, but there are far more sources than that.

From ATSNN:

NEWS: Booming China Awash in Out of Control Acid Rain

NEWS: China faces water shortage of 40 billion cubic meters every year

Etc etc etc

Yes, what exactly do we see from your "state controlled media"?



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:09 PM
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your link was a good read.

it turned out to be pointing out american slave labour


politics.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:15 PM
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Yes, what exactly do we see from your "state controlled media"?


yes FredT. when all is lost just point to chinas government.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
NEWS: Booming China Awash in Out of Control Acid Rain


china is trying to change her power supply from coal powered power plants to more enviromentally friendly wind power and water power sources.

and has a large nuclear power plant program happening.



NEWS: China faces water shortage of 40 billion cubic meters every year


well atleast china is tackling these problems. most of the dryier areas are in the north. thats why china is building the north-south water project. which will take water from southern china which experiences floods to the north which experiences droughts.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:30 PM
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Originally posted by FredT
Slave Labor:.....



Don't forget that much of China still basically exists at a third world level. These conditions you list are horrible compared to life in the US or any first world nation. Compare this to parts of India or Etheopia, this is a good living. Are there better jobs? Could they be paid more? Yes. But they could also be starving in the countryside as well. The Chinese think interms of generations. These people living 16 to a room aren't thinking of themselves, they're putting their children through school so they can have a better future.

In terms of prison labour, having nothing better to do, prison inmates in a lot of first world prisons often turn to violence and drugs while incarcerated. Making things in a factory in payment for food and board doesn't seem all that bad. Not much different then what you and I do outside of prison to pay for our food and board. These individuals committed a crime to end up in prison, why should the general public pay for their crimes? How much of your tax money goes to feed drug dealers and rapists ? How much of that money DOESN'T get spent on roads and hospitals? The Chinese have a different perspective on these things.

In terms of the main thread. There was no doubt that Japan or the EU had neither the capacity (in the first case) nor the organization (in the second case) that China has shown in the past decade of growth. The reason that the US considers China to be a threat is that American analysts haven't found an Achilles heal to China's growth. Whether they ever will is up to the future. I wouldn't be so quick to discredit China's growth based on past history with respect to Japan or the EU. Similarly, I wouldn't be absolutely certain the PRC will top the US either. China still faces many challenges. What does seem to be happening is that the communist government seems very aware of their strengths and weaknesses and is able to maintain control over the country's growth (totalitarism's benefit). On the other hand, for the moment, the US seems to be accumulating large debts, making other countries mistrust it, and is ruled by a man who has more bravado than brains with no replacement in sight.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 11:50 PM
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as posted by LemonAide
On the other hand, for the moment, the US seems to be accumulating large debts...

Would seem rather apparent to me that the US can afford to incur such debts? Can China?
The achilles heel for China is simply it's trade with the US. The US end all trade with China and there goes the booming yet controlled Chinese economy you so speak of. The damage would be a blow to the US economy if such was to take place, but the real blow would be to China.
After all, the world gross GDP, as of 2004 estimations, was $55.5 trillion

With the GDP breakdown being:
1: US with $11.7 trillion
7: China: $1.7 trillion
Total GDP 2004
The above link citing a world GDP estimate at $41.0 trillion.






seekerof

[edit on 27-8-2005 by Seekerof]



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 12:09 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
Would seem rather apparent to me that the US can afford to incur such debts? Can China?


What Chinese debts are you talking about ? I was refering to the US deficit and the cost of the Iraqi war in case you misunderstood.



The achilles heel for China is simply it's trade with the US. The US end all trade with China and there goes the booming yet controlled Chinese economy you so speak of. The damage would be a blow to the US economy if such was to take place, but the real blow would be to China.
[edit on 27-8-2005 by Seekerof]


Instead of endless Time magazine covers saying how "threatened" America is, why hasn't the US used it ? There are many ways to shutdown an economy. A nuclear bomb for instance would cost the US far less. Having a weapon is one thing, it being useful is another.

You seem to have missed much of the reasoning behind my post. I suggest you re-read it.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 12:12 AM
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Stop Scapegoating China


Most of the losses stem from weaker exports, not soaring imports from China or elsewhere. The main source of the deficit isn't China's fixed exchange rate, low wages, or export subsidies, but the imploding U.S. savings rate -- a fact Congress would rather ignore.

www.businessweek.com...



[edit on 28-8-2005 by chinawhite]



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 01:00 AM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
The damage would be a blow to the US economy if such was to take place, but the real blow would be to China.


it would be a very big blow to american companies that export items from china. imagine finding out oone day that all that investment you made in china is now worthless.

about 50billion in FDI went into china this year alone.

ture chinas economy might/will collapse. but give it more time and demand wil out strip supply. by then china will be less dependant on the american consumer.


if the chinese economy collapses there will be a ripple effect in the countries that china does business with. the asian tigers and japan will all suffer . they will be forced to sell american bonds. which will cause high interest rates in america. etc. general slow down of the worlds economy



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 03:02 AM
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I've heard discussion of the AK over the M16 here.

The AK is, from the standpoint of maintenance in combat, the better weapon as it was built with loose fitting parts w/ some slack in them so you can throw an AK down in the mud get it good and dirty and it's still able to fire, but an M16 would jamm and must be kept prissy clean.








[edit on 8/28/2005 by bodebliss]



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
Carbon Dioxide Emissions of the three biggest polluters:

-------------------------- The USA- EU Countries - China - Total


Don't forget than in 2004, 10 new countries joined the EU. They are causing most of the pollution the EU causes.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 03:59 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
Don't forget than in 2004, 10 new countries joined the EU. They are causing most of the pollution the EU causes.


atheix. i dont really care. my point was that america was the biggest polluter

ok



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 05:45 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
germany? has that much
are you sure

Oh...sorry...
Thought you where talking about the USA..my mistake....I apologize.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss
I've heard discussion of the AK over the M16 here.

The AK is, from the standpoint of maintenance in combat, the better weapon as it was built with loose fitting parts w/ some slack in them so you can throw an AK down in the mud get it good and dirty and it's still able to fire, but an M16 would jamm and must be kept prissy clean.

[edit on 8/28/2005 by bodebliss]

Fact is mate it wouldnt be an AK vs M-16 fight.
It would be a type 81 vs M-16 fight, and the M-16 can engage them atleast 100 yards before the enemy can fire back at him/her.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 05:56 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Oh...sorry...
Thought you where talking about the USA..my mistake....I apologize.

It doesn't matter. The USA are our ally. They would refuel our planes.

[edit on 28-8-2005 by AtheiX]



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
i dont really care. my point was that america was the biggest polluter

ok


LOL, with China being a cllose second.When I was in Shanghai last year, the smog was so bad it made my eyes water. China really needs some environemntal controls over there industry, otherwise you're gaoing to have some sick future generations.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Yes Yes, Lets take a look. Forget that the huge exonomic growth is being fueled by ultra cheap labor, forget the fact that there is a huge use of prision labor, forget the fact that massive pollution and contamination of potable water and the environment is going on, forget the fact that population controll is cutting into A) The female to male ration and B) the super cheap labor pool, forget the fact that Yuan is artificaly kept low to boost exports, forget all of that and what do you have? Quite simply nothing.

China's booming econmy will last only so long as as cheap labor source is avalible. Remember when the Japanese economy was going to rule the world? Or the EU? etc. etc. RIng a bell?



But the problem here is that there China have something but NOT 'quite simply nothing'.

Yeah, China has cheap labour, but the US dont, this make China grow. And the time when you dont find any cheap labour in China, its the time when China is a superpower. And now China is doing what she could to make all the people out of poverty. There is no other ways to stop China. IF there are, its all already been done.



posted on Aug, 28 2005 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
are you a Bensheng ren or Waisheng ren.

if you are taiwanese born then where.



Haha...now you are getting into my personal info. But guess I have to answer this.

I am what you call a BSR. But in my opinion, there is no need to distinct BSR and WSR. Especially when the most WSR in Taiwan now are 2nd and 3rd generations. The only reason to distinguish the groups is perhaps when you talk about histories.

I was born in Taipei, in Mackay Memorial Hospital (think that is what it is called in English).

[edit on 28-8-2005 by twchang]



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