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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 12:04 AM
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Another off-topic rant...

Originally posted by AtheiX

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by AtheiX
No, that was not a joke.

Yes it was!
For crying out loud I know James bond doesnt exist.

Ah.
I saw wrong.
You said "That was a joke", you didn't say "was that a joke?".


Atheix,

a friendly word in your shell-like.

Don't tell a native English speaker how to speak his native language and I won't tell you how to Deutsch gesprechen.

As Devilwasp made the original statement, he doesn't need to ask if it was a joke, he's telling you it was a joke. He should know, he said it.

And go and read your history. German logistics broke down because they were planned around the railways operating at their peak efficiency non-stop. NO contingency plans were made for what happened when human error intervened.

My argument is that you cannot plan an invasion around what your theoretical peak logistical performance is. Wear and tear mean you have to plan at 50% of that level, not to mention human-error from exhaustion, carelessness etc.
As such you can't plan an amphibious operation around 8 boats that carry 500 men, meaning you can put 4,000 men on the beach at once. If just one boat is hit you lose more than 10% of your fighting force in a single event.
If one is hit and one breaks down and one is shot up on the beach you've lost 1,500 men from your combat force, three boats from your transport fleet and now you need to get your casualties off a beach that is under fire.

As for that previous view of world geographical politics, can I join in?

Australia is Australia. New Zealand is Australia. Papua New Guinea is Australia. Niue is Australia. The Solomons are Australia. Lords, Hettingly, the Oval, Edgbaston and Trentbridge are Australia. Hollywood is Australia. In three years' time the swimming pool in Beijing will be Australia. Vegemite is Australia. VB is Australia. INXS is Australia. AC/DC is Australia. Paul Hogan is Australia. That moron Steve Irwin is America. Fosters is crap...




posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
They don't have large demonstration against Japanese for one thing.


because they are a lot more moderate



And I got the impression of the "most" Taiwanese because of messages posted on Taiwanese message board and Taiwanese I met through out my life.


ummm. now internet boards? if he is not a radical taiwanese pro-independence lover. why would he spend time in forums.



And when you live in Taiwan for quite sometime you will get some sense of general public opinions.


that means nothing. when you say general opinion what does that mean? I didn't mean anything in a argument. have you asked over 50% of th population?




There are a lot of Taiwanese that go to China, but mainly for business, not tourism.


there are 300,000 permanment taiwanese residents living in china. i wouldn't call that tourism.

and for tourism numbers.
english.sina.com...



I can buy Chinese food in North America, does that mean Chinese culture is not unique, but similar to American culture?


ou said that bubble tea is unque to taiwan which it isn't. dont get side tracked





It doesn't. If I eat Italian pasta everyday, I won't become Italian. But different culture will produce different flavor of noodles.


and how many of these different instant noodle favours is there.? you said taiwanese have a different taste to mainland noodles. but i pointed out that taiwan exports instant noodles to the mainland and recieves noodles from the mainland



Right. Exactly. If northern and southern Chinese are different, is it really that hard to believe that Fujian and Taiwan are quite different after many years of seperated rule?


the taiwanese kept their traditions that their ancestors from the mainland have done for many years. they haven't added new ways on how to do it.



Perhaps, but that would be personal opinion. In my opinion, Taiwan and Fujian are more different.


you said you never been to fujian. how are you suppose to know what a fujianese does??

i am full 100% fujianese. i know a lot more about chinese culture than all the so called "Trips" to taiwan can teach you.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:10 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
Always wondering why some Chinese want to "revenge" for some dynasty that doesn't exist anymore.


revenge from the injustices that the western countries imposed on china during her time of weakness.

chinese could care less about the Qing dynasty. it doesn't matter its gone.

you think we want revenge for a dead emperor.?



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 04:18 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
No, it isn't. Taiwanese fleed from China to Taiwan and founded their own country.


umm........

taiwanese fled china?? they were KMT soldiers and KMT supporters. former government that controlled china.

they never founded a country. they still claim to be the owners of mainland china. (if you didn't know whihc clearly you dont)




The US military has better training than the Chinese military.


better training in what? you dont know anything about how chinese soldiers train but you choose to make statements like this.



The US military has better equipment than the Chinese military.


yes they do. but they have a lot less ground troops. 1 american soldier with superior guns is not going to kill 4 chinese



No, you won't, because you are in no way close to the American, German or French military.


the german military is a joke. is nothing speical.




Don't make me display Chinese military history.


please do.



Nuclear power? China has no more than 50 nukes. The US has over 10,000 nukes.


what are you talking about. nuke warhead ICBMs IRBMs.? china has more than 50 warheads



China doesn't have any transport ships. China doesn't have any transport planes.





ignorant poster. give some sources before you say that again



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

revenge from the injustices that the western countries imposed on china during her time of weakness.

chinese could care less about the Qing dynasty. it doesn't matter its gone.

you think we want revenge for a dead emperor.?


Depend on how you look at it. From my point of view, each dynasty in China represents a seperate entity. When a new dynasty is found, an new era begin.

If you are looking at it like the whole dynasties in the history of China is one entity, that would make things too complicated. Then China will need to seek revenge on Mangolia, Russia, Japan and much more. And a lot of countries and minority groups can seek revenge on China. People in Tibet, North West and North East of current China would have to get more things settled with China.

Plus I don't really like the word "revenge" in the international relationship, it makes it look like country X is against country Y, and everyone in country Y are targets. Revenge is more suitable for personal use, but even that is not encouraged by most people.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 26-8-2005 by twchang]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by twchang
i am full 100% fujianese. i know a lot more about chinese culture than all the so called "Trips" to taiwan can teach you.



And I am full 100% Taiwanese. I know a lot more about Taiwanese culture than all the so called "trips" to Taiwan can teach you.

I think you are quite disrespecting in saying that Taiwanese culture and Fujian culture are 100% the same. I think I have argue my case enough. You can say "oh, we have this here as well. oh, that is nothing" all you want, but that doesn't mean much. If you look at Taiwan with a filter of Fujian culture, then yea, you will see Fujian culture only, because they are there. But if you remove that filter, you will see much more.

Oh, by the way, the message board forum etc in Taiwan are not all pro-independence, just so you know.

I support Taiwanese indepedence for sure, but that is not why I read those Taiwanese forum. I read them so I get to see the ideas of Taiwanese in Taiwan and abroad.



the taiwanese kept their traditions that their ancestors from the mainland have done for many years. they haven't added new ways on how to do it.


And there is no way this is true. Taiwanese young people frequently change their way of speaking and doing things, even I sometimes feel the "generation gap".

Can you even say that Fujian hasn't change their way of living or thinking for 400 or 100 years? That is impossible.

EDIT:


there are 300,000 permanment taiwanese residents living in china. i wouldn't call that tourism.

and for tourism numbers.
english.sina.com...

Just have to say something about this. As I mention before, most of them are there doing businesses. A lot of them setting up factories and offices, so they have to be there. That is also one of the reason why there are a lot of Taiwanese visiting China, because they need to go back and forth between Taiwan and China, doing businesses, or return to Taiwan for holidays. Not to mention their family and friends might visit them in China.

Also, the link mentioned number of Taiwanese visit China, not really tourism numbers.

Another big source of visit comes from the people who retreat to Taiwan with KMT. They often want to visit their relatives in China. They are about 14% of the total population in Taiwan.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 26-8-2005 by twchang]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
yes they do. but they have a lot less ground troops. 1 american soldier with superior guns is not going to kill 4 chinese

HAHAHA! You're saying that 1 American soldier with superior guns is not going to kill 4 Chinese soldiers?

Originally posted by chinawhite
the german military is a joke. is nothing speical.

It is not a joke!
FORCE PROJECTION: 60 A400M transport planes
MANPOWER: 221,000 men
EQUIPMENT:
Leopard 2 tank - the best tank in the world
PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzer - can destroy targets before they can destroy it
Tornado fighter - a good fighter
Typhoon fighter - a good fighter
TRAINING: as good as that of the American, British and French military, because they train together.



Don't tell a native English speaker how to speak his native language

I wasn't telling him how to speak his native language. I said that I saw wrong.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by AtheiX]

[edit on 26-8-2005 by AtheiX]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:53 AM
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HAHAHA! You're saying that 1 American soldier with superior guns is not going to kill 4 Chinese soldiers?


I’m not comparing the Chinese to the Somalis I’m only saying that superior technology and training make a big difference. In 1992 Mogadishu Somalia about 100 US Rangers/Delta Force personnel killed 1000+ Somali militia in urban warfare over a period of one day while suffering 18 losses.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
umm........

taiwanese fled china?? they were KMT soldiers and KMT supporters. former government that controlled china.

they never founded a country. they still claim to be the owners of mainland china. (if you didn't know whihc clearly you dont)



Actually, some of the earlier settlers are also fleeing in a sense. The earliest ones went to Taiwan to work for Dutch colony because the condition of Fujian was becoming very poor, and also because the Manchu invasions.

Immigration in a sense are all fleeing sort of...fleeing from some conditions that they don't like.

And yea, you can take the KMT's official claim as BS, because most people do, I think.

[edit on 26-8-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 26-8-2005 by twchang]



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
better training in what? you dont know anything about how chinese soldiers train but you choose to make statements like this.

With respect nethier can you refute his claim since you nethier know what american nor chinese armed forces personel train like.
PS, training usualy goes on the size of an army.
If you army is large you tend to train them to be trained but spend less money on it than say if you numbers where smaller.
The more troops in the army, the less money on training can be spent, this is what I've picked up over years..
If someone with more experience wants to prove me wrong or correct me then please do so..



yes they do. but they have a lot less ground troops. 1 american soldier with superior guns is not going to kill 4 chinese

How not?
Worked in WW1..and 2...



the german military is a joke. is nothing speical.

Hardly...
If they are so bad then why?



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:28 PM
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Originally posted by twchang
And I am full 100% Taiwanese. I know a lot more about Taiwanese culture than all the so called "trips" to Taiwan can teach you.


are you a Bensheng ren or Waisheng ren.

if you are taiwanese born then where.



I think you are quite disrespecting in saying that Taiwanese culture and Fujian culture are 100% the same. I think I have argue my case enough.


not a 100% match but over 98%. different words or what they watch is not going to change their culture.

PS: you have not presented any information except TV shows and your "dads" experience on the mainland



Oh, by the way, the message board forum etc in Taiwan are not all pro-independence, just so you know.


is there just one?. and they are. they might be moderate people in their but they all think taiwan is a independent country.



I support Taiwanese indepedence for sure, but that is not why I read those Taiwanese forum. I read them so I get to see the ideas of Taiwanese in Taiwan and abroad.


50 people in a forum is not going to tell you what the general mind set is like



And there is no way this is true. Taiwanese young people frequently change their way of speaking and doing things, even I sometimes feel the "generation gap".


you mean add their own type of words in. like slang



Can you even say that Fujian hasn't change their way of living or thinking for 400 or 100 years? That is impossible.


yes they have. but not radically different to claim they have their own culture



Just have to say something about this. As I mention before, most of them are there doing businesses.


how to you know that they are just setting up businesses. they come to china to retire.



Also, the link mentioned number of Taiwanese visit China, not really tourism numbers.


travel to china. 3.7million taiwanese per year. a lot of exchanges taking place. that is from a population of 22million.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
HAHAHA! You're saying that 1 American soldier with superior guns is not going to kill 4 Chinese soldiers?


a american armed with a M4 or M16 is going to kill 4 chinese armed with AKs?


Originally posted by chinawhite
FORCE PROJECTION: 60 A400M transport planes


so what.



MANPOWER: 221,000 men


in the airforce navy and army combinded.



Leopard 2 tank - the best tank in the world


this one is debatable



PzH 2000 self-propelled howitzer - can destroy targets before they can destroy it


its moving artillery. its not a anti-tank gun.(not purpose built)



TRAINING: as good as that of the American, British and French military, because they train together.


and this means something because?



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by twchang
Actually, some of the earlier settlers are also fleeing in a sense. The earliest ones went to Taiwan to work for Dutch colony because the condition of Fujian was becoming very poor, and also because the Manchu invasions.


yes they were fleeing china because of the manchu invasion. during that time china was in chaos. civil war japanese pirates. and the dutch offered a lot better pay



And yea, you can take the KMT's official claim as BS, because most people do, I think.


what KMT claim



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by twchang
Depend on how you look at it. From my point of view, each dynasty in China represents a seperate entity. When a new dynasty is found, an new era begin.


actually is more like a change of hands. not a new entity. they might be ruled by a different emperor but the same daily life and general running of the empire is pretty much the same.



posted on Aug, 26 2005 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

and this means something because?

Because that means there are troops are well trained and will know how to react and win a war.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 05:17 AM
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Americans, wake up dude. You dont even know how powerful China is. Go knock your heads on the missiles.

One day, China is going to overtake US, every thing. Then we gonna ban all the US millitary weapons. We are on the way to success and Americans, keep on dreaming. LOL...




posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
With respect nethier can you refute his claim since you nethier know what american nor chinese armed forces personel train like.


did i refute his claims.?

i said that he cant claim anything without knowing anything.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Because that means there are troops are well trained and will know how to react and win a war.


what defines well trained in your opinion?.

who as more live fire exercises. more fit, educated?



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by bodebliss


Even Chinese companies are starting to export jobs to cheaper labor areas. Soon Europe and the US will go right to the source and bypass China.


they are moving limited numbers of jobs to other countries to by-pass american quotas.



There is no choice, if you do not know what the choices are. Chinese companies will follow Japan's lead and as wages rise export jobs faster and faster. Industrial world companies will see this and go right to the source and invest in new factories there. Learn more. All situs are of a temporary nature. China's current dominance is temporary.


china does have a large pool of moving migrants still looking for work. this number of people arent going to go anywhere soon.

chinese workers are paid more than other poor countries in south-east asia or africa. why arent the western companies moving there to take advantage of the cheper labour?

because its not the cheaper labour its the whole package. from the raw materials all the way to the finished product. find any other country that comes close to chinas level of intergration at the same price.



posted on Aug, 27 2005 @ 08:18 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
Yes, take Taiwan in the "soft" mode is one of the option of China. That was why I said perhaps the biggest enemy of Taiwan is Taiwan itself. If Taiwan just give in without further considerations, it could become another Hong Kong, or worse, before people in Taiwan realize it.


china wants to keep the status quo. both sides are gaining from it.

soft power is chinas first choice. sending a panda to taiwan and relaxing tarvel restrictions on taiwanese visiting china are one of the steps.

a invasion is the last thing china wants. buying sovs and kilos from russia are only meant to scar the americans from intervening.

china has a policy not to interfere with other countries domestic issues. thats why third world countries like china.




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