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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by rogersune
American are stupid and arrogant.

They are not.


They don't accept the fact that Taiwan is a part of China.

They do.


I will give some advice to U.S. government and people: don't forget Korean War and Vietnam War.

They havent, have you?


If you want to invade or conquer China, you will fail and lose your people's lives and wealth.

Mabye, probalbly not the second part but heh anything is possible.
PS, they dont want to invade.



Chinese people will never let West countries to invade China and kill Chinese people as they did in 19th and 20 centuries. In 1900, 8 strongest nations, including USA, Russia, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Spain invaded China, killed many Chinese people in China's capital--Beijing, and burned China's most beautiful royal palace--Yuan Ming Yuan. Every Chinese people know and remember this fact. We will revenge.

With respect where does justice end and revenge begin?
Are you telling me that china after 100 years of helping each other and fighting each other still hates us for an act our forefathers commited?


Remember: China is not Iraq. China is not Iran. China is not Japan. China is not Syria. China is not Korea. China is not Palestine.

If china was all of the above, it would be a multinational country but I understand what you mean.


China is a great country, China is a big country. China is a large country. China has a long histroy and great tradition.

I agree with all of the above.


China will no longer surrender to USA or other countries.

China has not surrendered to the USA nor any other countries, but that doesnt mean others will surrender to china.


China will protect its people and land with all means and methods, including nuclear power and attack any people in the countries which invade China.

Thats the whole purpose of a defence, I am sure everycountry would agree with you on all of the above.


Don't forget. Taiwan is a part of China. Tibet (Xizang) is a part of China. Even Korea is a part of China. Vietnam is also a part of China.

The first part is true, but the others are not.
They "were" but are not now.
You may have tried to anex them but they are not really yours.
You can bear claim to them but until the people there say "we are chinese and want to be chinese", its not china.


I will get back all of these parts.

No you wont.


Ps.
I have to agree with the redne- I mean ya- I mean westy.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]




posted on Aug, 24 2005 @ 10:42 PM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by rogersune
American are stupid and arrogant.

They are not.


I think we get the average percentage of assholes and stupid people. They make for better TV though, so that is what you see the most of.





They don't accept the fact that Taiwan is a part of China.

They do.


It is more of a "Accept whatever Taiwan says" thing. If they want to be reunified, they can go nuts. If China tries to attack them, we will probably defend them though (they do a fair amount of trade with us, and we protect our trading partners).





I will give some advice to U.S. government and people: don't forget Korean War and Vietnam War.

They havent, have you?


Remembered and learned from, but if you want to talk about history remember that China had some problems with the British a long time ago (when did they get most favored nation status again?). History should be remembered, but you should also remember that the world changes.





Chinese people will never let West countries to invade China and kill Chinese people as they did in 19th and 20 centuries. In 1900, 8 strongest nations, including USA, Russia, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Spain invaded China, killed many Chinese people in China's capital--Beijing, and burned China's most beautiful royal palace--Yuan Ming Yuan. Every Chinese people know and remember this fact. We will revenge.

With respect where does justice end and revenge begin?
Are you telling me that china after 100 years of helping each other and fighting each other still hates us for an act our forefathers commited?


What was that? The Boxer rebellion? If I remember correctly, one of the major causes of that was Chinese revolutionaries killing a bunch of western diplomats and their families. Been awhile since I read up on that one, so I might be wrong, but didn't the Empress actually abandon them? I think western soldiers were actually allied with her (not sure about this, the alliances might have switched a couple of times). Will have to read up and get back to you.





China is a great country, China is a big country. China is a large country. China has a long histroy and great tradition.

I agree with all of the above.


China is great. I have a friend from there, and I have nothing against it. Might learn chinese, since it seems like a good career move...



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 02:57 AM
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Always wondering why some Chinese want to "revenge" for some dynasty that doesn't exist anymore.

History is there so people can learn from it, it shouldn't be used as power source for vengence.


[edit on 25-8-2005 by twchang]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 02:58 AM
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FIRM SUPPORT: America has obligations to Taiwan and these will not be affected even if it decides not to buy advanced weapons, Rumsfeld said
BY CHARLES SNYDER
STAFF REPORTER IN WASHINGTON
Thursday, Aug 25, 2005,Page 1
US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld described Taiwan as a "sovereign nation" Tuesday, saying it was up to Taiwan to decide whether or not to buy the US$15 package of weaponry Washington has offered, and that the decision would not alter the US' legal obligation to aid Taiwan in defending against a Chinese attack.

At the same time, Rumsfeld said he did not think that the current joint Chinese-Russian military exercises in the waters north of Taiwan represent a threat.

Answering questions as a regular Pentagon press briefing, Rumsfeld declined to describe Taiwan as taking unfair advantage of the US' commitment to aid the island by failing to approve the special defense package while relying on America to come to Taiwan's defense in case of a Chinese attack.

"I think if I wanted to communicate something to the government of Taiwan, I would find a better place than here [at the press briefing]," he told reporters.

"I've always believed that countries -- sovereign nations -- have to do what they decide to do," Rumsfeld said in answer to a question about the Taiwan legislature's action on the arms package. "It's up to them to do it. "

We make our position known, and our position is known with the Taiwan Relations Act. And we have an obligation under that act to work with Taiwan on fulfilling security and arms sale provisions of that act.

"If they decide not to [approve the arms package] or if they decide to do so, that's up to them," he said.

The US$15 billion package, whose approval is supported by President Chen Shui-bian (陳水扁) and his DPP government, has been stymied by opposition from the pan-blue camp, primarily by opposition from former Chinese Nationalist Party (KMT) chairman Lien Chan (連戰). Many observers think that Lien's successor, Taipei Mayor Ma Ying-jeou (馬英九), will be more flexible in his position toward the arms package.

Rumsfeld's comments contrast with efforts by key Pentagon officials in recent years to pressure the Legislative Yuan to approve the special arms package, which includes diesel submarines, PAC III anti-missile batteries, and P-3C reconnaissance and anti-submarine aircraft.

Last October, for instance, Richard Lawless, the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Defense for East Asia, and one of Taiwan's best friends in Washington, issued a stern warning to Taiwan that the failure to approve the arms package would result in dire consequences for Taiwan.

Taiwan would be considered a "liability, rather than a partner" to its friends if it failed to approve the arms package.

"If the Legislative Yuan fails to pass this budget, it will be much harder to convince foreign partners to support your defense," Lawless said.

His comments were in a keynote address to a joint military conference sponsored by the US-Taiwan Business Council, whose members include the giants of the US defense contractor industry, who would benefit from the sale of the items in the arms package.

Regarding the joint Russian-Chinese military exercises, Rumsfeld played down the significance.

"I guess I don't find it notable," he said. "It is just a fact that countries get together and engage in various types of exercises."

Regarding the exercise's potential implications for Taiwan, Rumsfeld said, "We are obviously observing what's taking place, but I didn't see anything there that was threatening to Taiwan or anybody else."


Origin


Oh, I think we will defend the free and independent country of Taiwan.
The US thinks of Taiwan as free so it must be so, who cares what the yammering CCP devil says.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 06:10 AM
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Originally posted by rogersune
They don't accept the fact that Taiwan is a part of China.

No, it isn't. Taiwanese fleed from China to Taiwan and founded their own country.

Originally posted by rogersune
If you want to invade or conquer China, you will fail and lose your people's lives and wealth.

No.

The US military has better training than the Chinese military.
The US military has better equipment than the Chinese military.

Originally posted by rogersune
We will revenge.

No, you won't, because you are in no way close to the American, German or French military.

Originally posted by rogersune
Remember: China is not Iraq. China is not Iran. China is not Japan. China is not Syria. China is not Korea. China is not Palestine.

It doesn't matter. China won't win.

Originally posted by rogersune
China has a long histroy

So what?

Originally posted by rogersune
and great tradition.

Don't make me display Chinese military history.

Originally posted by rogersune
China will protect its people and land with all means and methods, including nuclear power

Nuclear power? China has no more than 50 nukes. The US has over 10,000 nukes.

Originally posted by rogersune
and attack any people in the countries which invade China.

China doesn't have any transport ships. China doesn't have any transport planes.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by rogersune
American are stupid and arrogant...


Who's arrogant (and a little misguided)?


Don't forget. Taiwan is a part of China. Tibet (Xizang) is a part of China. Even Korea is a part of China. Vietnam is also a part of China.


Why stop there? Surely you can take India. China isn't scared of little old India is it? What about Japan? Surely Japan is part of China. And Texas? Well, you can have Texas.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 06:38 AM
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If it came to a American-on-Chinese slaughter over Taiwan, then it would go like that:

WEEK ONE OF WAR:
The Chinese AF try to gain air dominance. They fail to do so, because the USAF shoot down all of their aircraft.

Meanwhile, the Chinese navy tries to defeat the US Navy to make the way to Taiwan safe. They fail to do so, because the US Navy sinks all of their ships.

END OF WAR



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 06:49 AM
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China won’t take Taiwan by force if the US will defend Taiwan.

The US Navy has got 10 aircraft carriers and about 50 subs.

SEA WAR WON

The USAF has got more planes than the Chinese AF. All of these planes are better than any plane China has.

AIR WAR WON

The US Army has one type of weaponry that China cannot hope to match. It’s the Abrams tank.

GROUND WAR WON

GAME OVER. US WINS, CHINA LOSES. HAVE A NICE DAY.


[edit on 25-8-2005 by AtheiX]

[edit on 25-8-2005 by AtheiX]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 07:37 AM
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1) The US armed forces wont just fling everything they have against china.
2) The Air war will be hell for the pilots, on both sides, anyone who thinks that isnt true, take a look at the numbers.
3) The UK would simply send james bond in to stop the war. END OF WAR.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:34 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

3) The UK would simply send james bond in to stop the war. END OF WAR.


True if anyone can do it Bond could. They should have sent him into Iraq as well, would have saved much hassle.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 08:38 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
True if anyone can do it Bond could. They should have sent him into Iraq as well, would have saved much hassle.

He was busy...on her majesties secret service...


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 09:10 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
3) The UK would simply send james bond in to stop the war. END OF WAR.

James Bond doesn't exist.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
James Bond doesn't exist.

Was a joke, you know trying to lighten the mood?



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 09:29 AM
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Greetings,

Alright, while on paper, if the whole of the US military "were" able to have thier whole force available for a conflict with China. The simple fact is that if there is ever a conflict with china, the US would NOT have its full strength to combat the chinese, the Americans have troops in the Middle East, Europe etc

They just aren't capable of throwing every thing at the chinese straight away, it would take at least a month to start pulling troops and equipment out of europe if possible, not to mention other tactical air and naval units at least a week to either get there and then if they are lucky to launch their first air strike.

As for the Carriers, its all theory, thats it. The Carriers where never used in a situation where they were in a real threat enviroment. Every thing about carrier battle groups working in a war enviroment is all theory, and as with every thing, theory is wonderful in the lab, but some times it just doesn't work.

I agree that 2 or 3 CBGs would make it difficult, but not impossible, you still need troops on the ground to defend those positions, the strait is shallow water, some thing those chinese diesel electrics have the edge.

- Phil



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Was a joke, you know trying to lighten the mood?

No, that was not a joke.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by rogersune
American are stupid and arrogant.

They don't accept the fact that Taiwan is a part of China.

I will give some advice to U.S. government and people: don't forget Korean War and Vietnam War.

If you want to invade or conquer China, you will fail and lose your people's lives and wealth.

Chinese people will never let West countries to invade China and kill Chinese people as they did in 19th and 20 centuries. In 1900, 8 strongest nations, including USA, Russia, Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Spain invaded China, killed many Chinese people in China's capital--Beijing, and burned China's most beautiful royal palace--Yuan Ming Yuan. Every Chinese people know and remember this fact. We will revenge.

Remember: China is not Iraq. China is not Iran. China is not Japan. China is not Syria. China is not Korea. China is not Palestine.

China is a great country, China is a big country. China is a large country. China has a long histroy and great tradition.

China will no longer surrender to USA or other countries.

China will protect its people and land with all means and methods, including nuclear power and attack any people in the countries which invade China.

Don't forget. Taiwan is a part of China. Tibet (Xizang) is a part of China. Even Korea is a part of China. Vietnam is also a part of China.

I will get back all of these parts.


Hi rogersune, you miss out one more. The mongolia. Do you think we have to take it back too?

Most Americans are really stupid, Especially those bunch of donkeys dont even know how strong china is. No wonder they keep saying China is a threat. China dont even give a damn about US being a threat to us China.

If USA feel strong, why spreading China threat?

[edit on 25-8-2005 by NUKE_BOOOSTER]

[edit on 25-8-2005 by NUKE_BOOOSTER]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX
No, that was not a joke.

Yes it was!
For crying out loud I know James bond doesnt exist.



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by AtheiX
No, that was not a joke.

Yes it was!
For crying out loud I know James bond doesnt exist.

Ah.
I saw wrong.
You said "That was a joke", you didn't say "was that a joke?".



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 12:29 PM
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what a crap!!! hey i should be a moderator!!!!!!


China WONT invade Taiwan, NOOOO WAAAYYYY!!!!!, and isnt because they fear the americans.

thats a nice tale to keep busy the militia and civils from other problems that China have, obviously the country is growing, but also have problems, all goverments do that, so dont start to say "loook these evil liers chinacoms are in troubles"

but the reallity is sooo booooooooring, so lets keep in our fantasies


there are interesting scenaries

1-China can use nukes against militar objetives -avoiding civilian kills- i mean against carriers and other objetives, that could avoid a ICBM launch over beijin or washington or any nuke on any mainland

2-to take a island is sooooo fuking hard!!!, yes you could need air superiority, but this is an amphibious war, and China dont have the money or the time to increase that capacity, i mean isnt a question to have 2-3 ships, you need a bunch

3-China wont attack Japan or other countries, like US, Japan and korea wont attack China, the war will be in Taiwan

4-but they can also take taiwan in the "soft" mode, with the increase of the China economy and the profile as a future superpower -we must wait if that happens- and the cultural links -actually the politic/economic system of taiwan looks more like modern china model than the US- in the future both nations could find common interests

[edit on 25-8-2005 by grunt2]



posted on Aug, 25 2005 @ 03:21 PM
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Originally posted by grunt2
4-but they can also take taiwan in the "soft" mode, with the increase of the China economy and the profile as a future superpower -we must wait if that happens- and the cultural links -actually the politic/economic system of taiwan looks more like modern china model than the US- in the future both nations could find common interests

[edit on 25-8-2005 by grunt2]


Yes, take Taiwan in the "soft" mode is one of the option of China. That was why I said perhaps the biggest enemy of Taiwan is Taiwan itself. If Taiwan just give in without further considerations, it could become another Hong Kong, or worse, before people in Taiwan realize it.

Actually the political systems of China and Taiwan is drastically different.

I am not sure about the economic system. For certain, the economic mode of Asian countries such as Korea, Japan, China and Taiwan are different from western society, although they are all capitalism in general. However, I think the internal economics organisms are still in a stage of transition in both China and Taiwan, in different directions.

Economic is too complex to predict. So whether Taiwan actually gains anything from investing in China is still a question. But in my opinion, a lot of economic problems in Taiwan now can be contribute partially to Taiwanese business over-investment in China, and not really gaining much back. Sort of a capitals bleeding effect.

So basically I think Taiwan is feeding a young Tiger with Taiwan's own blood. Whether this will change in the future is hard to say.

Don't know what other Taiwanese think, but as a Taiwanese, I don't really care if China is a super power or not.

Hmm...another thing worth mentioning is that Taiwanese business investment in China is not caused by purely economic reasons, in my opinion. For several years now, the pro-unification political parties continueously hype up China's economy and paint rosy pictures of investing in China. This makes the situation even more dangerous, economically.
[edit on 25-8-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 25-8-2005 by twchang]



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