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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Bases in taiwan???
Now you've got me puzzled.



Actually Singapore have a training base in Taiwan (>.....>. Yes, we send our National and Regular serviceman there for field training.

To counter this, China actually have a completely new base made for us in mainland itself, but our goverment is not moving there anytime soon.
^---- I do not have any articles to back me up for the above but its know by my friend whom serve their National Service in the Army.




posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 03:49 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Thing is though, they would not destroy the island nor the people on it?
Why? They are still chinese.


They probably won't but it is hard to say If you look back at the history of Taiwan, especially the 228 incident, you might have a different opinion. Wikipedia has much info on those topic.

Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprised if this statement turns out to be untrue.


[edit on 18-8-2005 by twchang]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by twchang

They probably won't but it is hard to say If you look back at the history of Taiwan, especially the 228 incident, you might have a different opinion. Wikipedia has much info on those topic.


whats the 228 incident?



Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprise if this statement turns out to be untrue.



actually. the cultural revolution was chinas brief experiment with demoracy.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by twchang
Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprise if this statement turns out to be untrue.



Originally posted by chinawhite
actually. the cultural revolution was chinas brief experiment with demoracy.


To be honest, hundreds of Nations have done this in the last 150 years.
United Kingdom.
America.
Germany.
etc...

They have no problem killing their own, nor do the Chinese.






posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:25 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
Oh no, that's not the Chinese Air Force.

That's the Air Wing of their Navy.

So your saying the PLAAN is going to use 540 aircraft out of its total of about 800 aircraft?
That means leaving 260 aircraft (not jsut fighter planes) to defend the entire chinese coastline and provide the navy with air cover.


You also have to think for China this is an all or nothing moment, they either throw everything in the region at it or do not because a weak invasion results in a massive loss of life for them.

How would it be an "all or nothing"???


Within 400KM of Taiwan they have: Fuzhou, Jinjiang, Longtian, Luqiao,
Shantou Northeast, Zhangzhou. Within 800KM of Taiwan they have 36 air bases. www.fas.org...

Yeah but a large number of chinese crafts are outdated pieces of crap.


As for number of air craft? Nobody knows. In 1972 they had over 4000. www.fas.org...

www.chinatoday.com... says they have roughly 3000 at the present moment as well as 63 sub-marines. That's how the Taiwan strait would be taken care of.

Actually it says..2,956 To defend the entire of china..120 SU-30's, 74 SU-27's, up to 300 but more likely 100 J-10 fighters, about 1000 J-8 and J-7 fighters.
Hardly the scary force..
The 63 submarines are almost all diesels, only about 10 are nuclear and 5 of them are boomers..
PS..
Chinese pilots get 0.012 hours a week flight time.



Once a submarine fires they give themselves away, meaning the would outnumber the American's and Taiwanese under there as well. Giving them easy ability to do a massive amount of damage.

Yeah but american submarines can detect chinese submarines miles away and call in sea kings or P-3's or nimrods or what ever the US navy ASW heli is (sorry yanks aint up on that area of your navy..)


"Today, the PLA Air Force consists of 330,000 personnel, operating some 3,500 aircraft, over 1,000 surface-to-air missile systems, and several thousand anti-aircraft artillery. As a result of China’s ongoing force reduction and military modernisation, the size of the PLA Air Force has been decreasing since the mid-1980s, with most of its obsolete aircraft based on the 1950s-era Soviet designs being retired from service."
www.sinodefence.com...

That's enough to deal a crushing blow to the American forces and that's the numbers the Chinese "give out". They won't be that stupid to tell everyone. They'll keep it hidden and probably have a much higher number than that.

No its not..
China has 120 badger bombers (guess what we specifically designed parts of our navy to destroy them) and about 12-18 JH-7/A (FBC-1) FIGHTER-BOMBERs, 1000 Q-5 ground attack aircraft...


And they would have to ask for host Nation about using the base against China:

""The air base at Manas will stay as long as the situation in Afghanistan requires," Defense Mminister, General Major Ismail Isakov said."
news.yahoo.com...

That's just Afganistan, so that's another air-force base they have to ask permission to use. They can't break agreements with these Nations just to attack China they have to get permission.

Thats one country, they can fly out of afghanistan.


Did nobody take notes from the Korean War? The American's had much better equipment and well...X-Corp?

Korea is a diffrent war from now.
This is now, not then.


Some aspects of the Chinese military were using swords and single shot rifles, until they could loot the American's. There was a much larger difference in technology then, then there is now.

Also really, if they are going to invade they need to kill off the ground troops. Chinese or not... the Chinese will know it will have to be a quick smack to get Taiwan and too it and hold out from there. With tens-of-thousands of missiles in their Nation, it is in their favour. With the problems between Korea (South and North) it is in their problem. Kim is a psycho and is waiting for the chance if South Korea got involved that would be it.

Umm the PLA has 25,000 artillery guns and multiple rocket launchers , over china..not a huge ammount..


If several air bases begin to be used from near by Nations the Chinese will bomb the air bases. Common sense says they would. Especailly as you said, they are American.

Ah but if they do, they need to cross airspace and fire on a soverign nation, hence an act of war, common says they would retaliate.


Kyrgyzstan wants them out once the mission in Afganistan is done.

"Rumsfeld's meetings here followed a call earlier this month for a timetable on the withdrawal of US forces from bases in the region by Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, China and Russia."

Yeah that doesnt mean the deal cant be rebrokered or just use them until the times up.


So they are having, less and less air-bases to use as time goes on. China are waiting for this reason alone and if it happens well Iraq is going on, I don't think they have a choice but to not invade.

I dont think so.


If they do it will only help fill the ranks of the terrorists and Iraq will easily result in a Civil War as well as possible larger wars in the Middle East against what some Nations see as Puppet's to America (especailly if Iran has Nuclear Weapons soon.)

The same can be said for china, many terrorists hate china.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
yes i am. they dont train for long endurance flights

Then your an idiot, they are trained just as well as any western pilot, americans included.




umm. world class vessels

You have 10 boats comparable to western boats.
The rest are about 20 years old.
Your ASW fleet is modest at best.



and how are 2 crews going to fit in a F-16 or rafale?

Never said they would...




they dont have a pertnership

Ok wrong word, they would lose a customer.



are you sure? i thought that was only in guantanamo bay
[edit on 18-8-2005 by chinawhite]

Nope, every embassy and base that the US is based on they own.
Hence why US marines guard embassy's and not the host nation.


Originally posted by chinawhite

the whole taiwanese army is not sttioned in taiwan itself. they are on three other islands taiwan controls. roughly half the army are stationed there.

look at the red circles on my map


those are the islands taiwan controls. the PENGHU islands are the traditinal invasion platform to invade taiwan.



That proves nothing..


[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Then your an idiot, they are trained just as well as any western pilot, americans included.


you are a idiot. training 180hours a year doesn't mean training long endurance flights. france germany dont need the capablility to fly long distances that why they dont train for it. its that simple





You have 10 boats comparable to western boats.
The rest are about 20 years old.
Your ASW fleet is modest at best.


we are talking about the commerical fleet not millitary.




Never said they would...


well how are they going to have rotating crews then? you gonna say that they are already there






Nope, every embassy and base that the US is based on they own.
Hence why US marines guard embassy's and not the host nation.


why did you give a example of a embassy.?



That proves nothing..


it proves that there wouldn't be 250,000taiwanese troops on taiwan proper. but troops on outlying islands that can be blockaged



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:51 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

So your saying the PLAAN is going to use 540 aircraft out of its total of about 800 aircraft?
That means leaving 260 aircraft (not jsut fighter planes) to defend the entire chinese coastline and provide the navy with air cover.


the PLAN airforce dont guard the coast by itself. those planes will be backed up by even more PLAAF fighters.





Yeah but a large number of chinese crafts are outdated pieces of crap.


not really. nearly all chinese J-7s are updated also with chinas J-8IIs. J-6s are in reserve or support roles




Actually it says..2,956 To defend the entire of china..120 SU-30's, 74 SU-27's, up to 300 but more likely 100 J-10 fighters, about 1000 J-8 and J-7 fighters.
Hardly the scary force..
The 63 submarines are almost all diesels, only about 10 are nuclear and 5 of them are boomers..
PS..
Chinese pilots get 0.012 hours a week flight time.


how did you work out the hours a week?. on average B class units get 120hours a year and A class 180hours. divide those by 52 you have 2.3 for B class and 3.46 for A class

yeah almost 3thousand fighters. thats a large number. you missed out on 100 J-11/su-27s.

Why is there a problem with being diesels? they are better for lower coastal areas. nuclear submarines are for long endurance. but chinas submarine fleet is geared towards coastal patrol.




Yeah but american submarines can detect chinese submarines miles away and call in sea kings or P-3's or nimrods or what ever the US navy ASW heli is (sorry yanks aint up on that area of your navy..)


then they would get shoot down by chinas J-7s




Umm the PLA has 25,000 artillery guns and multiple rocket launchers , over china..not a huge ammount..


are you crazy. what are you comparing to?





Ah but if they do, they need to cross airspace and fire on a soverign nation, hence an act of war, common says they would retaliate.


not with missiles. you hit american airbases. since you claim they own the land we are not attacking them but america




Yeah that doesnt mean the deal cant be rebrokered or just use them until the times up.


it does.



The same can be said for china, many terrorists hate china.


like who? the Uygurs

[edit on 18-8-2005 by chinawhite]



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:53 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
you are a idiot. training 180hours a year doesn't mean training long endurance flights. france germany dont need the capablility to fly long distances that why they dont train for it. its that simple

What?
Thats chinese pilots.
Not french.
French and german pilots are some of the best in the world.
They are trained to the same level as ours, they do the need the capability to go long range, and HAVE that capability.
That is a fact, what you said is an opinion.





we are talking about the commerical fleet not millitary.

Ah you mean merchant then, sorry dont know much about that, where did we tangent off in that direction?



well how are they going to have rotating crews then? you gonna say that they are already there


They land in friendly bases, friendly bases will most likely have thier own pilots.




why did you give a example of a embassy.?

Because its the easiest one to use.



it proves that there wouldn't be 250,000taiwanese troops on taiwan proper. but troops on outlying islands that can be blockaged

Yeah but as I said, they are not taken out but infact pockets of resistance.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
What?
Thats chinese pilots.
Not french.
French and german pilots are some of the best in the world.
They are trained to the same level as ours, they do the need the capability to go long range, and HAVE that capability.
That is a fact, what you said is an opinion.


would you like to back that up with some edvidence.







Ah you mean merchant then, sorry dont know much about that, where did we tangent off in that direction?


i initially said maritine fleet. but you mistook it for a military purpose. i said we could use chinas massive maritine fleet for shipping more troops over when the beachhead has been established




They land in friendly bases, friendly bases will most likely have thier own pilots.


??and they swap pilots with the country they land on??





Because its the easiest one to use.


but it still doesn't show that americans can do anything in a military base




Yeah but as I said, they are not taken out but infact pockets of resistance.


nope. you can starve them out. or bomb them until they surrender. where are they going to go. their on a island



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:01 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
the PLAN airforce dont guard the coast by itself. those planes will be backed up by even more PLAAF fighters.

The PLAAF do help guard it but the numbers speak for themselves.




no really. nearly all chinese J-7s are updated also with chinas J-8IIs. J-6s are in reserve or support roles

Yeah and they are over 20 years old...



yeah almost 3thousand fighters. thats a large number. you missed out on 100 J-11/su-27s.

Actually its between 90 and 100.
3000 to defend the entire of china, not attacking taiwan.


Why is there a problem with being diesels? they are better for lower coastal areas. nuclear submarines are for long endurance. but chinas submarine fleet is geared towards coastal patrol.

Yeah but diesels make quite a bit of noise.
Plus they are not as up to date as american or british subs so will not be able to fight them as easily.



then they would get shoot down by chinas J-7s

Not with air defence.




are you crazy. what are you comparing to?

25,000 guns, that doesnt tell you what or where they are.
I am thinking most will be artillery since missiles cost more than shells.




not with missiles. you hit american airbases. since you claim they own the land we are not attacking them but america

You are firing through their terrain and BTW, the bases wont be on the border.
You would need to cross into thier airspace to hit them.



it does.

So now your an expert on diplomacy?



like who? the Uygurs

Ha, you cant honuestly say that terrorists dont like china...



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
would you like to back that up with some edvidence.


Would like to but cant read german or french very well.
They have always had a reputation for being one of the best, they constantly train with amerians.
Hell the germans had a training team IN america.





i initially said maritine fleet. but you mistook it for a military purpose. i said we could use chinas massive maritine fleet for shipping more troops over when the beachhead has been established

Umm right, we british tried that, its a smart but flawed idea.
First , if you hire the original crews your using civilians as a shield.
Second, they will have to have escorts since they have 0 defences.



??and they swap pilots with the country they land on??

No....they will already have pilots there , a cargo aircraft behind them could transport them.
Now most likely it wont be done in 24 hours but heh, 48 mabye.




but it still doesn't show that americans can do anything in a military base

They can, hence why america is allowed to have nukes in their bases.



nope. you can starve them out. or bomb them until they surrender. where are they going to go. their on a island

The germans tried that, didnt work.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

The PLAAF do help guard it but the numbers speak for themselves.


i dont get it.?





Yeah and they are over 20 years old...


no. production started in the early 1980s and stopped in 1996. but are still building some for export




Actually its between 90 and 100.
3000 to defend the entire of china, not attacking taiwan.


i took the middle number. most reports say between 95-105.

1000planes attacking taiwan is a very large number




Yeah but diesels make quite a bit of noise.
Plus they are not as up to date as american or british subs so will not be able to fight them as easily.


uclear subs are more nosier. but american subs are the most quite in the world




Not with air defence.


85planes againest 1000chinese fighters. not including their support planes.





25,000 guns, that doesnt tell you what or where they are.
I am thinking most will be artillery since missiles cost more than shells.





You are firing through their terrain and BTW, the bases wont be on the border.
You would need to cross into thier airspace to hit them.


so what? you ever heard of a thing called ballistic missile. it flies high in the air.




So now your an expert on diplomacy?


no but it seems you are
. lol




Ha, you cant honuestly say that terrorists dont like china...


we made pacts with muslim countries and organisations to give them support in exchange for not attacking china



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp
Would like to but cant read german or french very well.
They have always had a reputation for being one of the best, they constantly train with amerians.
Hell the germans had a training team IN america.


do a simple search in google. then use translator




Umm right, we british tried that, its a smart but flawed idea.
First , if you hire the original crews your using civilians as a shield.
Second, they will have to have escorts since they have 0 defences.


how about chinas old but useful frigates and detroyers?




No....they will already have pilots there , a cargo aircraft behind them could transport them.
Now most likely it wont be done in 24 hours but heh, 48 mabye.


thats proves it. you cant





They can, hence why america is allowed to have nukes in their bases.


like where. turkey?. because they have special treatys signed up




The germans tried that, didnt work.


because britian is a lot bigger than those small islands taiwanese troops are on



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:31 AM
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hmm.. French pilots are good..
Thats what I gathered from the InAF exercises at Istres this June..
IAF pilots said that the French did stuff with their Mirage 2000s that "we had never investigated" before..
Still trying to get the exact results of that exercise..
Germans.. Well I don't have any info on..but I'm sure they're not "bad"..



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:33 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
i dont get it.?

Your still weakening the defence by increasing the offence.




no. production started in the early 1980s and stopped in 1996. but are still building some for export

So now its only under a decade old...




i took the middle number. most reports say between 95-105.

Really?
Mine suggeted 90-100.


1000planes attacking taiwan is a very large number

Ah but thing is, the majority of them are A2A figthers, not A2G.



uclear subs are more nosier. but american subs are the most quite in the world

Nuclear subs tend to be quiter because if you can afford a nuke reactor, you can afford to keep it quiet.



85planes againest 1000chinese fighters. not including their support planes.

Ah but thing is, its not just 85, its the actual task force itself.




so what? you ever heard of a thing called ballistic missile. it flies high in the air.

OOOK then, your saying they will be fireing ballistic missiles at taiwan?
They want to take the island, not nuke it!



no but it seems you are
. lol

No, I am simply an optimist.



we made pacts with muslim countries and organisations to give them support in exchange for not attacking china

So buying off terrorists will stop them?
We tried that with germany, didnt work ethier.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:34 AM
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Originally posted by Odium


Originally posted by twchang
Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprise if this statement turns out to be untrue.



Originally posted by chinawhite
actually. the cultural revolution was chinas brief experiment with demoracy.


To be honest, hundreds of Nations have done this in the last 150 years.
United Kingdom.
America.
Germany.
etc...

They have no problem killing their own, nor do the Chinese.





150 years and the last 50 years is quite a different thing..
I don't think any country has used the Military to kill students protesting..
Execpt maybe Iran.. And that also I'm not sure off.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
do a simple search in google. then use translator

Its encoded.




how about chinas old but useful frigates and detroyers?

Can one of them stop a tomahawk?



thats proves it. you cant

Well, it really depends on what countries and what vehicles.
It all depends.




like where. turkey?. because they have special treatys signed up

Nope, germany, britian, etc.



because britian is a lot bigger than those small islands taiwanese troops are on

Size makes bugger all diference.
The princible is the same.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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May day 2002.
Miners Strike.
Riots in the 1960's.
On going riots in Germany.
Rubber bullets in Ireland? What 17 dead since 1969.

Well people are still alive which got beaten by the military/police/Government there is no major difference for those people. No matter how much the Government's try to sugar coat it.



posted on Aug, 18 2005 @ 08:32 AM
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Originally posted by Odium
May day 2002.
Miners Strike.
Riots in the 1960's.
On going riots in Germany.
Rubber bullets in Ireland? What 17 dead since 1969.

Well people are still alive which got beaten by the military/police/Government there is no major difference for those people. No matter how much the Government's try to sugar coat it.

Since when did rubber bullets equal running over someone in a tank?



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