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Originally posted by devilwasp
Bases in taiwan???
Now you've got me puzzled.
Originally posted by devilwasp
Thing is though, they would not destroy the island nor the people on it?
Why? They are still chinese.
Originally posted by twchang
They probably won't but it is hard to say If you look back at the history of Taiwan, especially the 228 incident, you might have a different opinion. Wikipedia has much info on those topic.
Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprise if this statement turns out to be untrue.
Originally posted by twchang
Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprise if this statement turns out to be untrue.
Originally posted by chinawhite
actually. the cultural revolution was chinas brief experiment with demoracy.
Originally posted by Odium
Oh no, that's not the Chinese Air Force.
That's the Air Wing of their Navy.
You also have to think for China this is an all or nothing moment, they either throw everything in the region at it or do not because a weak invasion results in a massive loss of life for them.
Within 400KM of Taiwan they have: Fuzhou, Jinjiang, Longtian, Luqiao,
Shantou Northeast, Zhangzhou. Within 800KM of Taiwan they have 36 air bases. www.fas.org...
As for number of air craft? Nobody knows. In 1972 they had over 4000. www.fas.org...
www.chinatoday.com... says they have roughly 3000 at the present moment as well as 63 sub-marines. That's how the Taiwan strait would be taken care of.
Once a submarine fires they give themselves away, meaning the would outnumber the American's and Taiwanese under there as well. Giving them easy ability to do a massive amount of damage.
"Today, the PLA Air Force consists of 330,000 personnel, operating some 3,500 aircraft, over 1,000 surface-to-air missile systems, and several thousand anti-aircraft artillery. As a result of China’s ongoing force reduction and military modernisation, the size of the PLA Air Force has been decreasing since the mid-1980s, with most of its obsolete aircraft based on the 1950s-era Soviet designs being retired from service."
www.sinodefence.com...
That's enough to deal a crushing blow to the American forces and that's the numbers the Chinese "give out". They won't be that stupid to tell everyone. They'll keep it hidden and probably have a much higher number than that.
And they would have to ask for host Nation about using the base against China:
""The air base at Manas will stay as long as the situation in Afghanistan requires," Defense Mminister, General Major Ismail Isakov said."
news.yahoo.com...
That's just Afganistan, so that's another air-force base they have to ask permission to use. They can't break agreements with these Nations just to attack China they have to get permission.
Did nobody take notes from the Korean War? The American's had much better equipment and well...X-Corp?
Some aspects of the Chinese military were using swords and single shot rifles, until they could loot the American's. There was a much larger difference in technology then, then there is now.
Also really, if they are going to invade they need to kill off the ground troops. Chinese or not... the Chinese will know it will have to be a quick smack to get Taiwan and too it and hold out from there. With tens-of-thousands of missiles in their Nation, it is in their favour. With the problems between Korea (South and North) it is in their problem. Kim is a psycho and is waiting for the chance if South Korea got involved that would be it.
If several air bases begin to be used from near by Nations the Chinese will bomb the air bases. Common sense says they would. Especailly as you said, they are American.
Kyrgyzstan wants them out once the mission in Afganistan is done.
"Rumsfeld's meetings here followed a call earlier this month for a timetable on the withdrawal of US forces from bases in the region by Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, China and Russia."
So they are having, less and less air-bases to use as time goes on. China are waiting for this reason alone and if it happens well Iraq is going on, I don't think they have a choice but to not invade.
If they do it will only help fill the ranks of the terrorists and Iraq will easily result in a Civil War as well as possible larger wars in the Middle East against what some Nations see as Puppet's to America (especailly if Iran has Nuclear Weapons soon.)
Originally posted by chinawhite
yes i am. they dont train for long endurance flights
umm. world class vessels
and how are 2 crews going to fit in a F-16 or rafale?
they dont have a pertnership
are you sure? i thought that was only in guantanamo bay
[edit on 18-8-2005 by chinawhite]
Originally posted by chinawhite
the whole taiwanese army is not sttioned in taiwan itself. they are on three other islands taiwan controls. roughly half the army are stationed there.
look at the red circles on my map
those are the islands taiwan controls. the PENGHU islands are the traditinal invasion platform to invade taiwan.
Originally posted by devilwasp
Then your an idiot, they are trained just as well as any western pilot, americans included.
You have 10 boats comparable to western boats.
The rest are about 20 years old.
Your ASW fleet is modest at best.
Never said they would...
Nope, every embassy and base that the US is based on they own.
Hence why US marines guard embassy's and not the host nation.
That proves nothing..
Originally posted by devilwasp
So your saying the PLAAN is going to use 540 aircraft out of its total of about 800 aircraft?
That means leaving 260 aircraft (not jsut fighter planes) to defend the entire chinese coastline and provide the navy with air cover.
Yeah but a large number of chinese crafts are outdated pieces of crap.
Actually it says..2,956 To defend the entire of china..120 SU-30's, 74 SU-27's, up to 300 but more likely 100 J-10 fighters, about 1000 J-8 and J-7 fighters.
Hardly the scary force..
The 63 submarines are almost all diesels, only about 10 are nuclear and 5 of them are boomers..
PS..
Chinese pilots get 0.012 hours a week flight time.
Yeah but american submarines can detect chinese submarines miles away and call in sea kings or P-3's or nimrods or what ever the US navy ASW heli is (sorry yanks aint up on that area of your navy..)
Umm the PLA has 25,000 artillery guns and multiple rocket launchers , over china..not a huge ammount..
Ah but if they do, they need to cross airspace and fire on a soverign nation, hence an act of war, common says they would retaliate.
Yeah that doesnt mean the deal cant be rebrokered or just use them until the times up.
The same can be said for china, many terrorists hate china.
Originally posted by chinawhite
you are a idiot. training 180hours a year doesn't mean training long endurance flights. france germany dont need the capablility to fly long distances that why they dont train for it. its that simple
we are talking about the commerical fleet not millitary.
well how are they going to have rotating crews then? you gonna say that they are already there
why did you give a example of a embassy.?
it proves that there wouldn't be 250,000taiwanese troops on taiwan proper. but troops on outlying islands that can be blockaged
Originally posted by devilwasp
What?
Thats chinese pilots.
Not french.
French and german pilots are some of the best in the world.
They are trained to the same level as ours, they do the need the capability to go long range, and HAVE that capability.
That is a fact, what you said is an opinion.
Ah you mean merchant then, sorry dont know much about that, where did we tangent off in that direction?
They land in friendly bases, friendly bases will most likely have thier own pilots.
Because its the easiest one to use.
Yeah but as I said, they are not taken out but infact pockets of resistance.
Originally posted by chinawhite
the PLAN airforce dont guard the coast by itself. those planes will be backed up by even more PLAAF fighters.
no really. nearly all chinese J-7s are updated also with chinas J-8IIs. J-6s are in reserve or support roles
Why is there a problem with being diesels? they are better for lower coastal areas. nuclear submarines are for long endurance. but chinas submarine fleet is geared towards coastal patrol.
then they would get shoot down by chinas J-7s
are you crazy. what are you comparing to?
not with missiles. you hit american airbases. since you claim they own the land we are not attacking them but america
it does.
like who? the Uygurs
Originally posted by chinawhite
would you like to back that up with some edvidence.
i initially said maritine fleet. but you mistook it for a military purpose. i said we could use chinas massive maritine fleet for shipping more troops over when the beachhead has been established
??and they swap pilots with the country they land on??
but it still doesn't show that americans can do anything in a military base
nope. you can starve them out. or bomb them until they surrender. where are they going to go. their on a island
Originally posted by devilwasp
The PLAAF do help guard it but the numbers speak for themselves.
Yeah and they are over 20 years old...
Actually its between 90 and 100.
3000 to defend the entire of china, not attacking taiwan.
Yeah but diesels make quite a bit of noise.
Plus they are not as up to date as american or british subs so will not be able to fight them as easily.
Not with air defence.
25,000 guns, that doesnt tell you what or where they are.
I am thinking most will be artillery since missiles cost more than shells.
You are firing through their terrain and BTW, the bases wont be on the border.
You would need to cross into thier airspace to hit them.
So now your an expert on diplomacy?
Ha, you cant honuestly say that terrorists dont like china...
Originally posted by devilwasp
Would like to but cant read german or french very well.
They have always had a reputation for being one of the best, they constantly train with amerians.
Hell the germans had a training team IN america.
Umm right, we british tried that, its a smart but flawed idea.
First , if you hire the original crews your using civilians as a shield.
Second, they will have to have escorts since they have 0 defences.
No....they will already have pilots there , a cargo aircraft behind them could transport them.
Now most likely it wont be done in 24 hours but heh, 48 mabye.
They can, hence why america is allowed to have nukes in their bases.
The germans tried that, didnt work.
Originally posted by chinawhite
i dont get it.?
no. production started in the early 1980s and stopped in 1996. but are still building some for export
i took the middle number. most reports say between 95-105.
1000planes attacking taiwan is a very large number
uclear subs are more nosier. but american subs are the most quite in the world
85planes againest 1000chinese fighters. not including their support planes.
so what? you ever heard of a thing called ballistic missile. it flies high in the air.
no but it seems you are . lol
we made pacts with muslim countries and organisations to give them support in exchange for not attacking china
Originally posted by Odium
Originally posted by twchang
Also, during the Chinese culture revolution and Tianmen Square incident etc, Chinese are killed by their own people, so I won't be surprise if this statement turns out to be untrue.
Originally posted by chinawhite
actually. the cultural revolution was chinas brief experiment with demoracy.
To be honest, hundreds of Nations have done this in the last 150 years.
United Kingdom.
America.
Germany.
etc...
They have no problem killing their own, nor do the Chinese.
Originally posted by chinawhite
do a simple search in google. then use translator
how about chinas old but useful frigates and detroyers?
thats proves it. you cant
like where. turkey?. because they have special treatys signed up
because britian is a lot bigger than those small islands taiwanese troops are on
Originally posted by Odium
May day 2002.
Miners Strike.
Riots in the 1960's.
On going riots in Germany.
Rubber bullets in Ireland? What 17 dead since 1969.
Well people are still alive which got beaten by the military/police/Government there is no major difference for those people. No matter how much the Government's try to sugar coat it.