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Can China Invade Taiwan?

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posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:30 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX

Originally posted by Odium
"What if America (Et al) fail? What will then happen to us from the Chinese as punishment?"

HAHAHA!
American will win against the Chinese, even if it will be fighting alone.


I'm glad you know this. Can you see into the future then? I could do with the winning lottery numbers next Saturday. :-)

Thank you in advance.




posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:38 AM
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Originally posted by Odium


I'm glad you know this. Can you see into the future then? I could do with the winning lottery numbers next Saturday. :-)

Thank you in advance.

The US will win against the Chinese, even if it will be fighting alone.

The US military has better training than the Chinese military.

The US military has better equipment than the Chinese military.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX

Originally posted by Odium


I'm glad you know this. Can you see into the future then? I could do with the winning lottery numbers next Saturday. :-)

Thank you in advance.

The US will win against the Chinese, even if it will be fighting alone.

The US military has better training than the Chinese military.

The US military has better equipment than the Chinese military.


I'd like some proof of those statements.

It's hard to claim the training is better, since none of us here have under-gone both of them.

Neither of us have access to what both the Chinese and Americans have. None of us are 4Star Generals (or even 5 star) in both of these Nations.

So please - back it up.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 01:45 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by devilwasp

And you are not?


i never said i wasn't. he said he wasn't one and i pointed out that he was

No, I'm not. I am not in the military because I can't join the military (because of my small heart). So I am not an armchair general.



as i said before. no western airforce (except the US) can reach chinese soil with any meaninful planes

France can. They have 2 aircraft carriers.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by AtheiX]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX

The US will win against the Chinese, even if it will be fighting alone.


no they wont. you do relaise that they are still needed in iraq



The US military has better training than the Chinese military.


how would you know. your not even in an military



The US military has better equipment than the Chinese military.


whos said?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 03:58 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX

No, I'm not. I am not in the military because I can't join the military (because of my small heart). So I am not an armchair general.


heres some good sites for you.

www.armchairgeneral.com...
home.att.net...

you still arent in the military.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX

France can. They have 2 aircraft carriers.


in 24 hours. lol



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 05:08 AM
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As I said the key is the Bay of bengal..no chinese forces there..Chengdu and all of southern china in range of tomahawks..

And Odium.. you sound like the US-china war has a 50-50 % chance victory outcome for either side.. You should know better than that.. China wil not "defeat" the US.. They either lose to the US or draw the US into a stalemate or explore the MAD option.. So "we" shouldn't be scared of what'll happen to "us" if and when the chinese defeat the US

.. won't happen..
Best case scenario for china is to inflict heavy US casualties fast/early and draw them into a stalemate..



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 05:27 AM
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Daedalus3, you honestly think that?

All China has to do is get and hold Taiwan.

America on the other hand would have less air-craft, ships, etc in the region and no chance of landing ground troops. It would be foolish to invade a Nation of that size and the Chinese have far too many people.

They best America could do is hit the Chinese before they land on Taiwan.

Also the nations with bases, will already be thought of by the Chinese. The first American aircraft set from those bases will have the bases bombed by the Chinese and the problem is removed.

You also have to factor in the logistics of it. In reality Taiwan's army is split over three islands. Two of which can be blitzzed no problem. The third would be the main one they need to capture. Missiles, etc, would destory their air-fields and the Chinese would have air superiority to take out the ships and bang invasion force lands. The Americans would have a few hours to make the choice;
"Defend Taiwan or Not".

If they do they'd only be able to use the forces in the region that they get the O.K. from - in all likely hood, Japan, South Korea and the two carrier battle groups in the air.

Given 10 years the Chinese will roughly have about 10 air-craft for every single american air-craft in the region. That's enough to sink two carriers and bomb the air-fields.

In all likely hood, it would also bring North Korea into the fold and you will have another Korean War. Something American can't afford (ground war against so many people.)

Resulting in Americans having to live or bring in the draft. Something I doubt any administration would want to do.

You also have to factor in that the version of the S-400/300 the Chinese use can over-shoot Taiwan and should be able to deal with a majority of the missiles that the Americans launch from the sea. (By 2010 I've seen reports of all of China being covered (borders (sea and land)) with these systems and in 2012 they'll be upgrading to the S-500 system. (Which from what I've seen is just a change on radar and tracking system, not overly difficult.)

In my honest opinion, it would be harder for American to win, more like 30/70. (By win I mean remove the Chinese from Taiwan.)



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
you automactialy expect korea to let British planes on their airbases? lol

They let american ones , why not ours?


whats do you mean by low land mass?. remember you said 24hours.


A) there are no islands anywhere near the falklands except argentina and they where trying to invade.
In 24 hours airforces cam pretty ,much redeploy anywhere


because iraq is closer to europe than china is to europe. like i said how much nearby. not much.

So, aghanistan is closer to china than iraq.



from germany to iraq/china/afganistan

From germany and Co you mean?
Yes it would take a while but it is still possible.




Once chinas establishs control of taiwan how is america going to invade taiwan.? 100,000 chinese troops againest how many marnies. this is ot iraq. you dont have a country to station your troops on

The US 7th fleet is nearby, an american strike force would probably be on its way.
100,000 troops in less than a days travel?

Oduim, china has no "real" bomber force, it has a handful of old bombers that can hold at most 3 bombs each.
They are 1960's left overs.
Also does china have S-400?
2 carrier battle groups plus a UK task force could take back taiwan, the firepower there would be immense.

[edit on 26/02/2005 by devilwasp]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:19 AM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
As I said the key is the Bay of bengal..no chinese forces there..Chengdu and all of southern china in range of tomahawks..


why would the americans aim for chengdu?. are you thinking that if the americans try maximize the chinese civillan casulties the chinese are going to call it quits.

This is not even going to effect the out come of the taiwan front.



And Odium.. you sound like the US-china war has a 50-50 % chance victory outcome for either side.. You should know better than that.. China wil not "defeat" the US.. They either lose to the US or draw the US into a stalemate or explore the MAD option.. So "we" shouldn't be scared of what'll happen to "us" if and when the chinese defeat the US

.. won't happen..


america wouldn't risk a large scale war or possible nuclear war over taiwan. it doesn't even have diplomatic relations. taiwan is not a member of the UN and most other organisations.

this war wouldn't last very long. and if any country in the region habours american forces in their bases the chinese arent gonna forget it. you might be thinking that after the US is going to give them concessions like increased trade, but can americans keep on making their trade defiect larger

there arent going to be any more big wars anymore. no large scale pitch battles. the americans and chinese already know that. a member here PURI posted a very good opinion on this on this thread.

heres a link
www.abovetopsecret.com...



Best case scenario for china is to inflict heavy US casualties fast/early and draw them into a stalemate..


thats if america enters. its a chinese doesmestic matter. the US shouldn't get involed.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

They let american ones , why not ours?


because they have a treaty of some sort that allows americans



A) there are no islands anywhere near the falklands except argentina and they where trying to invade.
In 24 hours airforces cam pretty ,much redeploy anywhere


you might be thinking about the british or american airforce. but are german french airforces geared on 24hour notice to go half-way around the world




So, aghanistan is closer to china than iraq.


afganistan is a landlocked country. you need to fly supplies into it to keep them supplied. much much aircraft you think can be supplied by air from britain to afganistan? not even including the airspace you have to aviod to get there




From germany and Co you mean?
Yes it would take a while but it is still possible.


yes a while not the 24hours you said.





The US 7th fleet is nearby, an american strike force would probably be on its way.
100,000 troops in less than a days travel?


i didn't know america have all these spare troops around. with iraq afganistan and all

well the taiwan strait is only 100km wide. i think 100,000 troops landed is a reasonble number. china could a reverse of Dunkirk and use chinas huge fleet of ships to transport troops across after the inital fighting


PS:i was replying to this.


could china HOLD taiwan from the US and its allies


you didn't say how long after. but anyway keep on going



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:38 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
because they have a treaty of some sort that allows americans

I havent seen one, and simply using the bases would not be a major concern to them.
They didnt attack, they just sat back.



you might be thinking about the british or american airforce. but are german french airforces geared on 24hour notice to go half-way around the world

German and french airforces can reach anywhere in the world, i suspect longer than 24 hours BUT they still would make it.
They have very good gear.



afganistan is a landlocked country. you need to fly supplies into it to keep them supplied. much much aircraft you think can be supplied by air from britain to afganistan? not even including the airspace you have to aviod to get there

We done so before and are still doing....


yes a while not the 24hours you said.

They possibly could, but thats debateable.




i didn't know america have all these spare troops around. with iraq afganistan and all

America has quite a number of troops, same with the rest of the world.


well the taiwan strait is only 100km wide. i think 100,000 troops landed is a reasonble number. china could a reverse of Dunkirk and use chinas huge fleet of ships to transport troops across after the inital fighting

Massive number of ships?
100km might as well be 100 miles if the americans secure air superiority.
Simply trying to land 100,000 men and women on an island doesnt work.
It takes time and planning.






you didn't say how long after. but anyway keep on going

Yes I didnt say how long, I also never said who where americas allies.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:44 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

Oduim, china has no "real" bomber force, it has a handful of old bombers that can hold at most 3 bombs each.


why would china need bombers.?

anyway. china has 120H-6's of different variants. which can hold 9000kg worth of arms. this is a lot more than the 3bombs you said.

the Q-5 attack plane can hold 4 500kg bombs



Also does china have S-400?
2 carrier battle groups plus a UK task force could take back taiwan, the firepower there would be immense.


did NATO airpower win over serbia? some 200+NATO planes close to their bases.



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:48 AM
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the Chinese use a version of the S-400 Devil, that can over-fly Taiwan. So Air-superiority in the strait would be a very hard task. Even over taiwan itself would be a problem.

I'll get the site again once I'm done maknig food, etc. Already posted it 3times on here. lol



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

I havent seen one, and simply using the bases would not be a major concern to them.
They didnt attack, they just sat back.


is this meant to be sarcastic?




German and french airforces can reach anywhere in the world, i suspect longer than 24 hours BUT they still would make it.
They have very good gear.


any links to a german/french officer stating that fact or are you looking at some book of their ranges?

this is completey a waste of my time trying to convince you that they cant.




We done so before and are still doing....


not with the planes you said you are deploying




They possibly could, but thats debateable.


yes a airplane flying non-stop with as much re-fuels as it needs can reach china.

now why didn't the british do that in the falklands war? its pretty much the same distance.





America has quite a number of troops, same with the rest of the world.


but the thing is their all doing something




Massive number of ships?
100km might as well be 100 miles if the americans secure air superiority.
Simply trying to land 100,000 men and women on an island doesnt work.


in 24hours the US 7th fleet is going to sail from japan and somehow win air superioty over chinese forces and stop a chinese invasion force which has already landed. sounds pausible. (lol)

and i said that a follow on of the rest of the 100,000 troops could be ferried over. on chinas massive maritine fleet

maybe in your fairy land but this is the ral world.



It takes time and planning.


well not according to you its doesn't. deploy a airforce to be there in 24hours and win air superioty. hahaha





Yes I didnt say how long, I also never said who where americas allies.


what allies? anything that doesn't have any vested interest in china?



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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are you saying that the chinese wouldn't mind the infrastructural loss at Chengdu??!!


Chengdu is fightertown, China..Don't lessen the importance of chengdu..

That is a stalemate.. whatever you're talking about Odium..But I would think that the Americans would try and screw china over by flanking them from Afghanistan, Bay of Bengal, Sea Of Japan and the Phillipines.. Now the tactical advantage that comes with such a wide variety of theatres is immense..
China's S-400s, FT-2000 etc.. etc..cannot stop B-2s and F-22s..And B-1bs also if im not mistaken.. The B-2s,accompanied by F-22s will be followed by B-52s and F-117s.. Targets will include infrastructural sites that will reduce china's ability to continuously supply forces in Taiwan..
They can take the Island.. but I'm not so sure they could hold it..
PACOM wouldn't go on an all out assault.. China definitely has the seige advantage in Taiwan..I presume they(PACOM) would be involved in "occupying" China's forces deployed to respond to the US..

I suspect the major thrust would come from The west..Aerial bombardment..

I may not like the US that much, but one's got to respect their sheer deployability and strike options.. They're innumerable..




[edit on 16-8-2005 by Daedalus3]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:05 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite


no they wont. you do relaise that they are still needed in iraq

They will win. They've got a military of over a million men, out of which only about 150,000 are stationed in Iraq.

[edit on 16-8-2005 by AtheiX]



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by devilwasp

I havent seen one, and simply using the bases would not be a major concern to them.
They didnt attack, they just sat back.


Its a big concern.

why would south korea risk good relations and lose of trade with her biggest trade partner just so britian can have a badge to say they helped taiwan

the south koreans want the americans out of their bases in south korea.

aiding the enemy is not something countries brush-off. america invaded afganistan for one person. just because the afgans were helping osama they got invaded



posted on Aug, 16 2005 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by AtheiX

They will win. They've got a military of over a million men, out of which only about 150,000 are stationed in Iraq.



here is something you should look up before shoting your mouth.
www.globalsecurity.org...

and how are they going to make the ajustments for moving this "so-called" invasion force of americans



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