FBI engineers terror plot, creates terrorist

reply to post by Danbones


No of course that isn't true. That is ridiculous. I hate people that compare everyone they disagree with to hitler.
Yeah I do believe that governments use terror against the people for control. That doesn't mean that there aren't people out there that are actively pursuing committing terrorist acts. Especially young Muslims kids who are impressionable. Think of all the school shootings if those white kids are capable of it (and the FBI busts kids that are planning stuff like that all the time) so are these kids he have their minds hijacked by the ideas of radical islam.
Angsty muslim kids might take this route as opposed to a school shooting because of their backgrounds. I guarantee you that.

reply to post by oozyism

I will ask again, why don't they give C4s to white skin heads, and plan out a whole plot for them to attack black gatherings?

What about give a car bomb to a gangster to go and bomb a police station?

Because the FBI doesn't go around killing people...? Is this a real question?

For those that care...here is a really good definition of Entrapment:

ENTRAPMENT

A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

In slightly different words: Even though someone may have [sold drugs], as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three things occurred:

- First, the idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.

- Second, the government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime.

- And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him.

On the issue of entrapment the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents.

got it off www.lectlaw.com...

I am not supporting what the Government did...as I believe they are manipulative to the nth degree....but if the kid was hell bent on committing the crime he is accused of then so be it.

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by oozyism

 

Because the FBI doesn't go around killing people...? Is this a real question?

I will ask again, why don't they give fakeC4s to white skin heads, and plan out a whole plot for them to attack black gatherings?

What about give a fakecar bomb to a gangster to go and bomb a police station?

I edited it, now answer the questions please.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
There is no justifying this to you people who are just anti FBI, etc. They did the right thing. The kid was trying to get in touch with radical muslims. He very well could have gotten something together. What would you people say if they had let him go and he found that real bomb building jihadist and actually killed people?

he tried to go to the middle east, this is not a regular innocent teen.

I will ask again, why don't they give C4s to white skin heads, and plan out a whole plot for them to attack black gatherings?

What about give a car bomb to a gangster to go and bomb a police station?

Pretty ridiculous if you ask me. This is clearly entrapment by the state, greedy for more 'poster boys' for their terrorism/TSA campaign.

reply to post by oozyism

I edited it, now answer the questions please.

Because then it would be considered entrapment.

reply to post by oozyism


And I will answer you again. If they found out that someone was planning that, they would.
Just like I said in the previous post this isn't really different than them intervening in school shootings. This kid just went the terrorist route because of his background IMO. He, to me, is the same as the kids that commit shootings he just had a religious background and began investigating into it. He probably didn't care too much about the consequences as a young angsty teen. He probably figured it would end in his death or capture like columbine. Skinheads aren't under the same impressions. If you heard about skinheads bombing black churches or something all the time then you would probably have more instances of that so your point is nil. It's comparing apples and oranges. It's just not that common. Gangsters probably don't seek help online as they have connections and have done things like that before, plus.. why would they bomb a police station? They are trying to make money not kill people randomly??

reply to post by oozyism


They didn't give the kid a bomb. They posed as the bomb maker HE WAS ACTIVELY SEEKING and then put together a fake bomb. They wouldn't give skinheads or this kid or anyone actual explosives. They did a similar thing in new york. Gave some guys looking for bombs fake explosives.

I can't believe you are defending a kid that tried to kill innocent people!!!!
He drove to the location with the fake bomb and then "detonated" it! He pulled the trigger for Christ's sake!
You are defending a kid that, had the FBI not found him, would have killed dozens if not hundreds of innocent people. Women and children.

reply to post by oozyism


The answer is, they do...sort of. When the FBI discovers that someone wants to hire someone to kill their partner, for example they send an agent in to act as an assassin and go through the whole deal until the person has committed the crime and then bingo, arrest them. Good work, too. This is the same thing on a larger scale. The whole muslim terrorist thing is the current issue to attract headlines so it gets reported. Who is to say that white supremist groups haven't been infiltrated and similar things prevented? I would say they probably have. The UK did the same with the IRA, the French and Spanish do the same with the Basque seperatists.

You jump on anything that shows Islam in a bad light, and I possibly would if i was one too, but lets be honest here - your religion has shown time and time again in recent years that it is barbaric and not averse to killing innocents in order to purge the world of the infidel. One less wannabe radical in the world is a good thing.

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by oozyism

 

I edited it, now answer the questions please.

Because then it would be considered entrapment.

So it is OK to encourage, give money, give detailed plan and plot a terror attack for a young Somali Muslim to detonate a fake car bomb in Christmas, but it isn't OK for FBI to encourage, give money, give detailed plan and plot a terror attack for a young skin head white American to detonate a fake car bomb in a black cultural day.

See the logic?

Let's look at what you said in the previous page:

How is it "manipulating" when his plan before / during / after was to explode a bomb?

He didn't plan the operation, it was all planned for him by the FBI.

I asked why doesn't the FBI do the same to other groups? You still refuse to answer the question because of your patriotic stance I suspect

reply to post by 3finjo


THIS! A thousand times this. They do this kind of stuff everyday. It's in the news because it was a terrorist plot that could have potentially, had things but different had he gone undetected, killed tons of people. They stop murder for hire and school shooting plots all the time the same way.

Originally posted by 3finjo
reply to post by oozyism

 

The answer is, they do...sort of. When the FBI discovers that someone wants to hire someone to kill their partner, for example they send an agent in to act as an assassin and go through the whole deal until the person has committed the crime and then bingo, arrest them. Good work, too. This is the same thing on a larger scale. The whole muslim terrorist thing is the current issue to attract headlines so it gets reported. Who is to say that white supremist groups haven't been infiltrated and similar things prevented? I would say they probably have. The UK did the same with the IRA, the French and Spanish do the same with the Basque seperatists.

You jump on anything that shows Islam in a bad light, and I possibly would if i was one too, but lets be honest here - your religion has shown time and time again in recent years that it is barbaric and not averse to killing innocents in order to purge the world of the infidel. One less wannabe radical in the world is a good thing.

Provide a case for us to observe, I'm interested.

I will still ask you the same question, why doesn't the FBI give fake car bombs to gangsters and plan an attack on a police station?

There are uncountable number of gangsters who would love to bomb a police station, why doesn't the FBI give them the plan and means to do it, then arrest them?

"""Does ATS believe 9/11 was orchestrated by US government? Therefore allowed the planes to hit their targets without any Jets neutralizing the threats?"""

Our military wanted a permanent presence in Saudi Arabia but the King wouldn't let our military build ANY permanent structures. They wanted us out of their country BAD. And shortly after 9-11 finally got their wish and booted us out.


America rolls on Crude Oil from the middle east. Since Saudi was wise enough to fund the Pakistani nuclear bomb program in exchange for a few bombs of their own....our battle plan to seize Saudi Arabia went out the window.

Next obvious step was taking Iraq to secure our oil needs. How to get the public to support such a venture? 9-11.

Even though the 9-11 jihadi's had ZERO links to Iraq....it was a successful operation to get the end goal. Plus the Twin Towers needed to be taken out because nobody could afford the Billion dollar project to rip the bad insulation from the buildings. So they were bought cheap....insured heavily...and taken out.

9-11 was 100% our doing. We benefited greatly from that operation. The gold was liberated...many people got rich off of it. Plus the massive insider trading just before 9-11 showed our intelligence informed Corporations to ditch certain stock and buy certain stock to come ahead.

The FBI bought the house next to the Ruby Ridge guy and put a fake family in the house and for 1 year tried to get that guy to sell them a sawed off shotgun. He refused and refuses and refused and finally after 1 year got sick of them bothering him and finally did it. Then they shot his dog, his son, and shot his wife on her front porch right between the eyes as she held a baby in her arms. He later got $3 million awarded to him but it showed our FBI will create what they need to get their end goal. The FBI guys that killed innocent people/children all got medals.

Many people got medals from 9-11. Some say the Masons deal with the devil under Pike brought the country much benefit...the devil is now collecting on the deal. And God is punishing America for our deal with the devil.

See the Hopi Indian Prophecy of the seas turning black....you just saw it in the Gulf of Mexico.

reply to post by oozyism

See the logic?

No, I see a lack of critical thinking on your part. Do you think the FBI wouldn't have done the same to some raging neo-nazi?

He didn't plan the operation, it was all planned for him by the FBI.

I didn't literally mean a detailed operation, I meant his sole plan ( or goal ) was to explode a bomb in order to kill, this is what he intends to do. Do you think if the FBI let him go on his own he wouldn't have gone ahead with his plans to detonate a bomb?

I asked why doesn't the FBI do the same to other groups?

Again, because other groups don't seem as hell bent on exploding themselves in order to kill others.

You still refuse to answer the question because of your patriotic stance I suspect

I'm answering, you're not understanding my response.

reply to post by oozyism


maybe in mexico or iraq or afganistan the car bomb at the police station would be relevant.

but not here, unless it was a rad muslim.

reply to post by oozyism


Are you serious? Is this the first FBI operation you have ever read about? The first news article?

www.chicagobreakingnews.com...
www.kptv.com...

reply to post by oozyism


Yeah, like Hal Turner
advocating the killing of judges to create terror,
and whaddya know,
it comes out in court he's workin for the FBI the whole time
and just following their instructions.

Like I said, the real terrorists hate jurisprudence.
This hate the FBI stuff is hilarious
This whole HATE thing is just to stifle free speech;
terrorists hate that too.

carry on

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by oozyism

 

And I will answer you again. If they found out that someone was planning that, they would.
Just like I said in the previous post this isn't really different than them intervening in school shootings. This kid just went the terrorist route because of his background IMO. He, to me, is the same as the kids that commit shootings he just had a religious background and began investigating into it. He probably didn't care too much about the consequences as a young angsty teen. He probably figured it would end in his death or capture like columbine. Skinheads aren't under the same impressions. If you heard about skinheads bombing black churches or something all the time then you would probably have more instances of that so your point is nil. It's comparing apples and oranges. It's just not that common. Gangsters probably don't seek help online as they have connections and have done things like that before, plus.. why would they bomb a police station? They are trying to make money not kill people randomly??

So your argument is that skinheads and Gangsters never done those type of things before, they have never blown things up before?

Using the same logic, this kid never blew things up before either.

What is your point?

Why won't they give a fake car bomb to a gangster who would love to bomb a Police Station?

Heck, why don't they give a homeless individual couple of thousand dollars to blow up the US embassy, by giving him all the resources and planning, and assisting him every step of the way

reply to post by oozyism



You aren't even trying to use logic. I didn't say they (gangsters) never have (even though you should provide proof they have tried for no reason) I'm saying, especially with gangsters, they would have no motivation. They aren't driven by the radical side of a religion, they don't want to ruin their lives. They are about business. Skinheads usually deal in small assaults and occasionally murder, but honestly aren't that big of a problem in the U.S. I haven't heard of a much skinhead activity..well ever really. BUT if they were trying to do something like this and the FBI got wind of it they would do the same thing that they did in this case, or in the assassination cases where they pose as hitmen.

If they found out a gangster, for whatever reason (it would be beyond me), wanted to bomb a police station do you not think they would go to these same lengths to stop it? OF COURSE THEY WOULD!
Also.. they didn't talk this kid into being a radical and trying to do stuff like this, that was the path he had chosen he was just stupid. They wouldn't just randomly try to get a homeless guy to commit a crime. That would make them terrorists. That isn't even a smidge similar to this. They weren't trying to get to the kid to commit a crime. The homeless guy thing blew my mind. I'm sorry to sound like a jerk, but I don't know if you are capable to see the difference. If you were you wouldn't have made that homeless man statement, or at least could understand why it's just ridiculous.

This stuff makes me want to cry man, it really does. Its just disgusting =(