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Leaks: China knows less about NKorea than thought (I call BS)

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posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:31 PM
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Leaks: China knows less about NKorea than thought




BEIJING – China knows less about and has less influence over its close ally North Korea than is usually presumed and is likely to eventually accept a reunified peninsula under South Korean rule, according to U.S. diplomatic files leaked to the WikiLeaks website.

The memos — called cables, though they were mostly encrypted e-mails — paint a picture of three countries struggling to understand an isolated, hard-line regime in the face of a dearth of information and indicate American and South Korean diplomats' reliance on China's analysis and interpretation.

The release of the documents, which included discussions of contingency plans for the regime's collapse and speculation about when that might come, follows new tensions in the region. North Korea unleashed a fiery artillery barrage on a South Korean island that killed four people a week ago and has since warned that joint U.S.-South Korean naval drills this week are pushing the peninsula to the "brink of war."



Is it me or does this seem to be playing right into the United States favor.... I call a huge BS... Nothing but what seems like another CIA PR Campaign


Wikileaks’ estranged co-founder becomes a critic




Young, a 74-year-old architect who lives in Manhattan, publishes a document-leaking Web site called Cryptome.org that predates Wikileaks by over a decade. He’s drawn fire from Microsoft after posting leaked internal documents about police requests, irked the U.K. government for disclosing the names of possible spies, and annoyed Homeland Security by disclosing a review of Democratic National Convention security measures.

Cryptome’s history of publicizing leaks–while not yielding to pressure to remove them–is what led Young to be invited to join Wikileaks before its launch over three years ago. He also agreed to be the public face of the organization by listing his name on the domain name registration.

Operating a Web site to post leaked documents isn’t very expensive (Young estimates he spends a little over $100 a month for Cryptome’s server space). So when other Wikileaks founders started to talk about the need to raise $5 million and complained that an initial round of publicity had affected “our delicate negotiations with the Open Society Institute and other funding bodies,” Young says, he resigned from the effort.

In the last few weeks, after the arrest of Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning cast a brighter spotlight on Wikileaks, Young has been trying to trace Wikileaks’ money flows. On July 17, Wikileaks asked supporters for $200,000 to pay for Mannings’ attorneys, even though co-founder Julian Assange said a few days earlier that the organization had already raised $1 million.

CNET caught up with Young at the Next HOPE hacker conference here last weekend, where he was attending the Wikileaks keynote speech. Following is a transcript made from a recorded interview with Young, lightly edited for space.


CIA, Mossad and Soros behind Wikileaks



Suspicions abound that Wikileaks is part of U.S. cyber-warfare operations

WMR has learned from Asian intelligence sources that there is a strong belief in some Asian countries, particularly China and Thailand, that the website Wikileaks, which purports to publish classified and sensitive documents while guaranteeing anonymity to the providers, is linked to U.S. cyber-warfare and computer espionage operations, as well as to Mossad’s own cyber-warfare activities.

Wikileaks claims to have decrypted video footage of a U.S. Predator air strike on civilians in Afghanistan and that covert U.S. State Department agents followed Wikileaks’s editor from Iceland to Norway in a surveillance operation conducted jointly by the United States and Iceland. Iceland’s financially-strapped government recently announced a policy of becoming a haven for websites that fear political oppression and censorship in their home countries. However, in the case of Wikileaks, countries like China and Thailand are suspicious of the websites’ actual “ownership.”

In January 2007, John Young, who runs cryptome.org, a site that publishes a wealth of sensitive and classified information, left Wikileaks, claiming the operation was a CIA front. Young also published some 150 email messages sent by Wikileaks activists on cryptome. They include a disparaging comment about this editor by Wikileaks co-founder Dr. Julian Assange of Australia. Assange lists as one of his professions “hacker.” His German co-founder of Wikileaks uses a pseudonym, “Daniel Schmitt


edit on 11/30/2010 by FoxStriker because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/30/2010 by FoxStriker because: (no reason given)

edit on 11/30/2010 by FoxStriker because: to many question about why I think WikiLeaks is a CIA PR Campaign




posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by FoxStriker
 


Yep chinese gov would be in all walks of life there, and be responsible for the country.

The wikileaks thing is getting more absurd, no way is china not in n korea doing loads of stuff.

The chinese gov will have people in all its neighbours govs and will be well entrenched in the place. How do you think nkorea has stayed out of american hands all these years?

Your right to call bs on this. This just shows how rubbish the news is. At least olbermann questioned this last night on his show.
edit on 11/30/2010 by andy1033 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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Have you ever thought that maybe wikileaks is right? Have you ever thought that maybe China doesn't have as much pull as everyone thinks? Look i'm not saying that that wikileaks is the gospel or anything, i'm just saying don't be so quick to doubt it just because it doesn't fit with your previous opinion. My personal opinion? Julian seems like a good guy who is trying to make our government more transparent, I think he's one of a very few TRUE journalists, not like fox which is a joke
or CNN which is a slightly more nuetral joke overall, no he's reporting what appears to be the TRUTH, just an opionion though.

Edit to add: S&F
edit on 30-11-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX because: (no reason given)


edit on 30-11-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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out of mild curiousity...how does this play into the hands of the US?

How has China responded to this leak...have they come out and breathlessly denied this, calling this an absolute lie, etc...or are they simply keeping quiet?

-checks the news, checks the net-

Seems they are being quiet.


Just because you don't like the truth, doesn't mean it is a lie...call BS if you want...call up China and demand they stop being US puppets..but unless you have something to add to show a different face on this...then all your doing is denying what appear to be facts all around.

Again...what is China's response to this beyond silence?

Sometimes, silence is the loudest thing you can say.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX
 


There is no way on earth that china is not deaply entrenched in society in nkorea. How is it that nkrea has been kept out of the anglo american empire hands all this time?



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:50 PM
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One more thing about these leaks...and more to the point, the people that are saying its propaganda, its lies, etc....


What has -any- nation said so far? has Saudi Arabia come out and assured they are friends with Iran and that the leaks are lies?

Has the US come out and said its lies and they have not ever requested biometric data on world leaders?

etc...

No...the answer is no all around the world...they simply have collectively rubbed their temples.
The only ones saying this is fake and bull is...of course...Iran.

And considering Iran was the collective punching bag of the world..ya, they would want to live in a delusion.

So...the choice here is pretty effin clear cut
You decide to go with the world opinion, the leaks, the day to day global reporting, the investigative journalism from every corner of the world...or you go with some tyrant nutcase in a fringe rogue state.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by andy1033
 
I too think China is deeply entrenched in there society, but MAYBE not as much as we think, Kim is wild and China may no have him on a leash as much as we'd like to think. As for your other question, are you asking why we haven't invades north korea?



edit on 30-11-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-11-2010 by XxRagingxPandaxX because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX
 


There is no way on earth that china is not deaply entrenched in society in nkorea. How is it that nkrea has been kept out of the anglo american empire hands all this time?



Anglo-American?

Everyone knows that America is still owned by the british...
This nutty conspiracy theory is actually a British still rule the world...so at least give credit where credit is due.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:53 PM
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You also have to understand that, just because it is in a legit cable, it might not be true. All of it is based on what one Chinese diplomat said to a US diplomat. The Chinese diplomat could very well be lying and saying what the US wants to hear while China really believes something completely different.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by XxRagingxPandaxX
 


Na i am saying that without china hlding back america with backing nkorea, nkorea would of been turned into korea by now. America has massive powers to infilitrate society and we have seen all over that cia run so many coups in countries, and place there dictators in there.

China must be absolutely entrenched in society there.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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Originally posted by janon
You also have to understand that, just because it is in a legit cable, it might not be true. All of it is based on what one Chinese diplomat said to a US diplomat. The Chinese diplomat could very well be lying and saying what the US wants to hear while China really believes something completely different.


Yes, that is the key.
This could simply be doublespeak, half truths, messages and postures sent to the US adminstration, etc...

people want to simply dismiss it all because it didn't immediately and clearly fit their worldview of how the US sucks and everyone is the victim...they need to get a grip...or at least try a tiny bit and see if there is any threads of wording that can be twisted into something they remember was their conspiracy world.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 05:00 PM
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double post
edit on 11/30/2010 by FoxStriker because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 05:08 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Quite simply by giving them extra public support for war against NK. Why on earth would China allow SK and USA to to unify Korea when it would put the USA on there doorstep. How would the USA react to china building bases on the Mexican or Canadian borders. Or god forbid staging military exercises / war games with Cuba in the golf of Mexico.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


How does this play into the United States Hand? North Korea and China have been in bed together for a good part of 50 years.

N. Korea is China's buffer zone... Why would China give up such a powerful allie? (Military Wise) They wouldn't...

If anything The WikiLeaks Declassified Documents seem to try to get the People of the United States to Validate any future action that will be taken against Iran and North Korea...

One thing I know about mainstream media is that they don't publish or report anything that will harm their stance, if not Assange would be dead. they're publishing this information for a reason... thats my point.



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by FoxStriker
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


How does this play into the United States Hand? North Korea and China have been in bed together for a good part of 50 years.

N. Korea is China's buffer zone... Why would China give up such a powerful allie? (Military Wise) They wouldn't...

If anything The WikiLeaks Declassified Documents seem to try to get the People of the United States to Validate any future action that will be taken against Iran and North Korea...

One thing I know about mainstream media is that they don't publish or report anything that will harm their stance, if not Assange would be dead. they're publishing this information for a reason... thats my point.



Your entire argument is based fully in your speculation without facts to back you up.

the korean war seen china constantly pushing troops to NK lines to hold off the western invasion. But, this was a very different world back then.
Over time, the western threat, after the fall of the USSR, became minimal...suddenly it wasn't a real possibility of America launching nukes at the USSR and China...it became a financial game...

As of late, the two sides, east and west, are so incredibly dependent on each other that any real disruption to the status quo would hurt them almost equal to bombs going off between the two.

And NK is now that powder keg that has been neglected for 50 years...and especially the last 15 years...why wouldn't they want them gone considering the dynamics of today.

You must learn from history, but do not let history determine your future..

Here is one last consideration...maybe the leaks are actually pushed by China to inadvertantly scare Kimmy into calming the F down and start acting sensible...once you suspect you don't have a giant bodyguard behind you, you tend to think with a cooler head.

This doesn't benefit the US at all..either for how the world hates Iran or North Korea...because the US simply doesn't want to war with them...who it does benefit is the middle east and china, because it checks the thorns in their side.

Follow the trail to not who you want it to be, but who benefits from the leaks, and there you -may- have a valid conspiracy



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


What Evidence have I provided? What evidence have you provided other than opinion... serious... do as say not as I do? HA

What you have spoken of doesn't even make logical sense in your last post... seriously you sound like a dis info agent.

I mentioned enough in my post to show that it's based on exactly what the United States and China have know for years... that N. Korea is a buffer zone. Even China agree's that it is most likely a CIA/Counter Intelligence front.

Wikileaks’ estranged co-founder becomes a critic




Young, a 74-year-old architect who lives in Manhattan, publishes a document-leaking Web site called Cryptome.org that predates Wikileaks by over a decade. He’s drawn fire from Microsoft after posting leaked internal documents about police requests, irked the U.K. government for disclosing the names of possible spies, and annoyed Homeland Security by disclosing a review of Democratic National Convention security measures.

Cryptome’s history of publicizing leaks–while not yielding to pressure to remove them–is what led Young to be invited to join Wikileaks before its launch over three years ago. He also agreed to be the public face of the organization by listing his name on the domain name registration.

Operating a Web site to post leaked documents isn’t very expensive (Young estimates he spends a little over $100 a month for Cryptome’s server space). So when other Wikileaks founders started to talk about the need to raise $5 million and complained that an initial round of publicity had affected “our delicate negotiations with the Open Society Institute and other funding bodies,” Young says, he resigned from the effort.

In the last few weeks, after the arrest of Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning cast a brighter spotlight on Wikileaks, Young has been trying to trace Wikileaks’ money flows. On July 17, Wikileaks asked supporters for $200,000 to pay for Mannings’ attorneys, even though co-founder Julian Assange said a few days earlier that the organization had already raised $1 million.

CNET caught up with Young at the Next HOPE hacker conference here last weekend, where he was attending the Wikileaks keynote speech. Following is a transcript made from a recorded interview with Young, lightly edited for space.


CIA, Mossad and Soros behind Wikileaks



Suspicions abound that Wikileaks is part of U.S. cyber-warfare operations

WMR has learned from Asian intelligence sources that there is a strong belief in some Asian countries, particularly China and Thailand, that the website Wikileaks, which purports to publish classified and sensitive documents while guaranteeing anonymity to the providers, is linked to U.S. cyber-warfare and computer espionage operations, as well as to Mossad’s own cyber-warfare activities.

Wikileaks claims to have decrypted video footage of a U.S. Predator air strike on civilians in Afghanistan and that covert U.S. State Department agents followed Wikileaks’s editor from Iceland to Norway in a surveillance operation conducted jointly by the United States and Iceland. Iceland’s financially-strapped government recently announced a policy of becoming a haven for websites that fear political oppression and censorship in their home countries. However, in the case of Wikileaks, countries like China and Thailand are suspicious of the websites’ actual “ownership.”

In January 2007, John Young, who runs cryptome.org, a site that publishes a wealth of sensitive and classified information, left Wikileaks, claiming the operation was a CIA front. Young also published some 150 email messages sent by Wikileaks activists on cryptome. They include a disparaging comment about this editor by Wikileaks co-founder Dr. Julian Assange of Australia. Assange lists as one of his professions “hacker.” His German co-founder of Wikileaks uses a pseudonym, “Daniel Schmitt

edit on 11/30/2010 by FoxStriker because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Keep in mind,you get executed for having a cell phone in certain parts. So it isnt suprising we know more about their nieghbor then they do.



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