I am suing Citimortgage.....follow along as I hang these bastards.

reply to post by torino42


Hi Torino....let's find you an attorney. I will contact my attorney and see if he is interested. We might be able to make this a class action suit. If you PM me and let me know where you are at in Pennsylvania...I can give you a few contacts.

I will PM you with my phone number.....and email address and you can write to me. If they haven't filed to foreclose yet, you have time and I have an excellent firm that can help you do it yourself. They have never lost.

reply to post by lostviking


Hi LostViking,hope things are going well for you. I have just caught up with how the thread is developing and must say I agree wholeheartedly with you regarding Cookiemonster, he has a vested interest in discrediting any information which disparages the banking system. I do not feel he wants to debate as he cites no sources for the evidence he presents as the truth and completely ignores relevant facts which he cannot question. So Cookiemonster if your opinions, because that is all you've expressed, are so worthy present us with your credentials so we can ascertain your competence in these matters.

reply to post by Damacles

Thanks Damacles. I appreciate your support. I don't read what Cookie Monster says because it is garbage. I am a realist. I know that there are people who are in trouble because they took advantage of the banks- but the banks allowed it to happen. They didn't do their due diligence to prevent fraud. If I was loaning someone over 1.000 dollars I would make sure they were qualified and a good risk. In addition, I would follow the law to the letter if I decided to sell the note, and when purchasing, confirm that everything looked solid.

The banks loaned money to people with horrible credit scores, no real job, and allowed mortgage brokers to fudge the numbers on asset, appraisals and income. They gambled that if 5 percent failed, that was a safe risk. The banks figured out how they could dismantle the loan, sell it off in pieces and make more money. It was the perfect plan, and trillions were made....until it all came crashing down.

Now, banks are being confronted with their original bad decision- separating the note from the mortgage. If the foreclosing bank can't figure out who the true owner of the loan is, they have no standing to foreclose. If everyone with a mortgage that has been securitized illegally stood up for their rights....I read somewhere that 68 million mortgages would be qualified to press this issue in a legal venue. No one forced the banks to commit this fraud....they did it all on their own.

My mortgage is but a drop in the bucket. I admit I fell on hard times, and maybe I didn't deserve redemption...but it was offered, I took it, and Citimortgage revoked it without cause. Ultimately, it is more costly to our country to have unoccupied homes, and families uprooted from their homes; than it is to modify a loan. No one is expecting that they get a free ride. People willingly take responsibility for missed payments and late fees that are legitimate (unfortunately banks gouge people with bogus fees and inaccurate amortizations)....why can't the loan be modified? The banks have the cash flow, people have homes, cities don't lose their tax base, neighborhoods stay intact, and people rebuild.

Something should be done that allows people to make up arrearages...not on a regular basis....but perhaps once during the life of their loan. It isn't like a credit card when you miss a payment....it is a home....and everyone suffers when someone is displaced. The banks shouldn't suffer either.....and they wouldn't if all missed payments were added to the end of the loan with penalties for doing so. Stuff happens in life. People get sick. People lose their jobs. People get depressed. People lose parents and children. And most people try to get back on the right path and take care of their responsibilities. The home lending industry has no tolerance for life. You miss a payment....you can lose your home.

I think it is time for a little tolerance in this day and age.

I am about to purchase my first home, as such, I have followed this thread very closely since it began and would like to add my input.

About a year ago I started looking into purchasing a home, the largest and most expensive purchase an average American will make in their lifetime. I knew, before I began, that I had a large responsibility to myself to do my due diligence in researching the matter. As my father told me when I was very young, "Here [in America] you have the freedom to make your own decisions and choose your own path. But you alone, will bear the responsibility of those choices."

As such, I researched as much as I could. Spoke with my realtor and lender for hours, asking questions, listening and learning about how the system actually worked, not how I thought it should work. This verbal communication with them, plus my own research and the advice of my father who had been a landlord and homeowner for decades I came to the conclusion that: Buying a home is a rather simple agreement, shocking right? It's not nearly as complicated (from the end of the buyer) as many here would have you believe.

After a few more months of searching, I finally found a home that I fell in love with. I am scheduled to close on this home on December 21, 2010 ( in about 2 weeks from now ). I will share with you, what I understand of the commitment I am getting into and the choices I have made to safeguard myself.

1) I understand that I am committing myself to paying a monthly payment, on-time, for ~30 years. I know this, before I sign on the dotted line.

2) I understand that there are 3 people that are responsible for ensuring that the monthly payment gets paid every single month [on-time]. Those 3 people are me, myself and I. Yes, I alone bear the full burden of those payments. I know this, before I sign on the dotted line.

3) I understand that a payment that is late will cost me financially and that it is my responsibility to ensure that my life events are conducive to on-time payments. Should a payment be late, it is my fault, not my job, not TPTB, not anyone but me. I know this, before I sign on the dotted line.

4) I understand that if ( for whatever reason ) I miss too many payments, the bank can take my home. I know this, before I sign on the dotted line.

5) I understand that this is a business transaction and that the Bank is not my friend. The Bank has no obligation to cut me a break should I show myself to be grossly incompetent in managing the issues in my life to ensure my ability to hold up my end of this contract. I know this, before I sign on the dotted line.

6) I understand that over the course of ~30 years many unplanned issues may arise in my life or the lives of my family that may in fact, directly effect my ability to pay my mortgage [on-time]. It is MY responsibility to safeguard myself against these events and to be prepared should events come up in such a way that it will not interfere with my ability to uphold my end of the contract.


At it's most simplest form, this is the agreement that we all sign when we buy a home.It is the agreement that we all make and the agreement that we all understand. It is the agreement I will sign at the end of this month. It is a large responsibility, here is how I ensured that I can hold up my end of the responsibility.

1) The home was purchased in my name alone, my fiance is not on the title. This means that the bank agrees with my numbers showing that I can support this home only my salary.

2) Adding to #1, I know that we can afford this home on one salary. Since our salaries are similar, I know that we are safeguarded against one of us losing our job. Therefore, the loss of one salary will not interfere with my ability to pay my mortgage on time.

3) Structural issues will be handled by my Homeowners Insurance, also fires, floods etc. I am safeguarded against any issues in this area. No such issue will interfere with my ability to pay my mortgage on time.

4) Mechanical issues within the home, will be covered my Home Warranty I have taken out on the home. So if my hot water heater breaks or the refrigerator dies the financial impact of it will not interfere with my ability to pay my mortgage on time.

5) Life insurance policies have been taken out on myself and my fiance. In the event of either of our deaths the amount of money received to the beneficiaries will be more then adequate to cover the costs of the home. Also, since we are not married until next year, my Will has been modified to leave the house to her in the event that I should pass on before the wedding. Therefore, if one of us dies, it will not interfere with my ability to pay my mortgage on time.

6) To safeguard against loss of employment or a family sickness that would interfere with paying our mortgage we will be be taking out Mortgage Payment Protection Insurance to ensure that in the unlikely event that we both become unemployed or fall ill, that it will not interfere with my ability to pay my mortgage on time.

7) By the time I close on the home (in 2 weeks) I already have 3 months of mortgage payments in a savings account and plan to have up to 6 months of mortgage payments plus utilities.

8) To minimize the amount of time we are vulnerable to life events effecting our ability to pay our mortgage, we have decided to a) pay bi-weekly instead of once a month, this will shorten our time paying the bank from 30 years to ~25 years. b) We have budgeted to pay extra ( towards the principal ) every payment to bring our total time down to ~20 years. c) All tax returns and increases in salary will go directly to the mortgage payment, we cannot foresee the amounts on this one but we will assume we can cut our total time paying to 15 years, thus saving us a ton of money in interest and decreasing the amount of time we are vulnerable to the possibility of foreclosure due to unforeseen events.


To me, this is all rather simple. Everyone who buys a home knows that you have to make your payments or they take your house. We all know this before we sign the paperwork. We also know the issues that could stop us from paying our mortgage, loss of employment, illness, unforeseen repairs or tragedy. But yet NONE of these issues are valid reasons to fall behind in your mortgage since there are so many ways available to safeguard yourself against them.

Those people that can't pay their mortgage because they loss their job simply didn't have the foresight to purchase an MPPI. Those people couldn't make a payment in december because their heater broke simply didn't have the foresight to purchase a homeowners warranty. Those people that couldn't make their mortgage payments because of medical bills for a family member should have purchased adequate medical insurance. The list goes on and on.

In my eyes, it is the responsibility of the borrower to both manage and prepare for all of these life issues that could arise while you are under contract with the bank. If you don't, then you are rolling the dice with your home and if you lose your gamble you have no one to blame but yourself. And to make matters worse, a lot of these borrowers are gambling also with the welfare and lives or their own families.

Look, this whole process is really simple. Make your payments on time and you get the house when it's over. Don't make your payments and you lose the house. That's it. There is no magic mumbo jumbo going on. All I need to know as a buyer is how much I am paying, I don't care if the Bank made the money from "thin air" or if they created it with Peppermint and Peanut Butter pulled from their collective arses. All I need to know is that I get the title to a very real and tangible ouse when I finish paying.

Those people that are crying foul and saying that the Banks are evil and trying to screw you are not victims of anything or anyone other than themselves. You are victims of your own inability to properly plan and safeguard you and your family. There is nothing that can happen to you that you cannot prepare and insure yourself against, nothing.

There isn't a single sob story here that didn't begin with the borrower braking his contract and not paying his mortgage for some reason that could have easily been safeguarded against.

Originally posted by lostviking
reply to post by elfie

 

Here is another post for Cookie Monster....about evil people who had their homes wrongly taken by innocent banks. Oh yeah, the banks are poor victims in all of this. Cookie Monster you make me sick.

Illegal Foreclosures

You know it's mind boggling that this can happen. The first I had heard about this problem was a case during the late Spring/early Summer in Florida where the home was owned outright by the family. They returned from a vacation or visiting family to find that the home was being foreclosed on, I'm sure it's been happening for the past couple of years. Of course it was the wrong house but all of their personal property had been removed, etc.-- very similar story to the article linked from the other thread. And these are just the stories making it to the news. There needs to be a central clearing house that tracks the actual numbers.

I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor! I can imaging finding an attorney willing to go up against the big dogs was not easy.

reply to post by AntiCitizenZone


I am guilty of missing payments. I had a very lucrative job. I got sick. I went on an approved medical leave. I was fired while on a medical leave (from a pharmaceutical company no less). I got behind on my mortgage. I reached out to Citimortgage in good faith to make it right. I was then put into a repayment plan. I would have to cure all late fees, arrearages and other fees. I mailed my payments by certified mail. I wrote to the bank to get an understanding of the charges they were adding to my loan. They refused to provide an accounting, they refused to answer my questions....and the reps I spoke with were confused themselves, stating "I don't know where those fees came from." I wanted clarification.

Maybe I made them mad, because they revoked my repayment plan four months in. Life happens people. I am a responsible person who did everything to make the situation right. I followed the laws available and worked within the framework to save my home....but these banks are such bureaucratic nightmares....it was impossible to get a straight answer, let alone to have continuity in the process. I consider myself to be a strong communicator and diligent in resolving my issues....but this escaped me. The people I spoke with over the course of this nightmare were incompetent, beligerent, rude, uneducated, and incapable of doing their jobs. It was routine to be hung up on after being on hold for 20 minutes. It was common to be transferred from department to department. The most frustrating element was that when you got to the right people, they had no way to help you. I have read the HAMP information, and I qualify under HAMP...but they would disqualify me time after time. They would then not have a reason why I was not approved. There is something very wrong, when taxpayers have been forced to pay for TARP...but the banks have ways around providing these funds.

I am telling you....foreclosing on people is lucrative. 96 percent of people do not have access to legal counsel. The banks know that they can wear people down, they confuse them, refuse to provide information, provide wrong information, hang up on you, refuse to respond....and most people will eventually give up and walk away.

If loan modifications were profitable, they would be done. People are being foreclosed on, because how many people in financial distress can pay for someone to defend their rights? Most people can get back on their feet and save their homes- but based on my experience....Citimortgage did everything in their power to foreclose on my home. Everything.

reply to post by elfie

I live in fear these days of coming home and finding my animals in the pound, and my home gutted. It doesn't matter what the law is, because Citi doesn't care. If they screw up like this they will get more attorneys. They will use the TARP money they receive to protect themselves.

It is a horrible day in our history, when there are billions for the banks, but our own elected officials ignore their constituents. No one cares. I am one of the blessed few that found an attorney with a soul. Had I not, I would be homeless right now....even though Citi acted illegally, there wouldn't have been a thing I could do.

Even if you have significant equity....once the foreclosure gets started, good luck being able to pull that equity out. There needs to be an organization that will step in and save homes with equity, allow the owner to refinance to keep the home, and take some of the equity for their service. It is a much needed service. A lot of people are losing their homes that can afford the payments now...but the banks won't allow them to catch up. Banks shouldn't be allowed to profit from a foreclosure. They should be able to recover their losses, and give any profits to the previous owner of the homes. Unfortunately, when the banks get a hold of any equity you have, they will find a way to steal it with bogus fees, questionable accounting, attorney fees, drive by fees, and any other fee they can come up with. I have seen it done.

You might check out this study by the National Consumer Law Center.


This is a PDF file.

Why Servicers Foreclose When They Should Modify And Other Puzzles of Servicer Behavior


One thing important to learn: The banks are only servicing your loan. The loans (mortgages) were all securitized and sold to investors and pension funds. So if they are initiating foreclosure, it is on behalf of the "investor". Most likely, Citi doesn't "own" your loan anymore.

(This is in most cases, not all)

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
I don't know the intimate details and intricacies of LostViking's particular circumstances. However, the title of this thread is advocating violence against banks and bankers, which I clearly find offensive.

I see nothing violent about someone seeking justice against a bank that illegally forecloses on people.

Your OPINIONS wreek of bank bias and that is OBVIOUS!

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Banks foreclose for a very simple reason - They aren't getting paid, and the borrower broke the contract. It's pretty straightforward. All I am asking is for just an iota of objectivity.

In theory that is how it is/was supposed to happen but since banks&government CONSPIRE against consumers why should they follow ANY rules? Most people don't care about corruption until it hits them on a personal level and then they get all uptight for good reason.... normally its too late then!

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
You are mistaken. Once the loan is closed, it becomes an asset, not a liability to the bank. Ask any accountant, and he will confirm this to be true.

No YOU are mistaken!

The initial cash paid out by the bank to the home seller is a liability to the bank.

The loan receivable IS the asset!

I do not feel he wants to debate as he cites no sources for the evidence

Perhaps you haven't read the entire thread. I posted and/or referenced links more than once.

present us with your credentials so we can ascertain your competence in these matters.

I'll be happy to do so when everyone on this thread follows likewise. I am quite confident that I know what I am talking about, as evidenced by my supporters on this thread.

They didn't do their due diligence to prevent fraud. If I was loaning someone over 1.000 dollars I would make sure they were qualified and a good risk.

Some of these schemes are quite sophisticated, as the FBI reports show quite clearly. Banks were duped.

Some of these frauds were done by criminals placed within the lower levels of the bank to cover up the crime itself -- doctoring paperwork, inflating appraisals, etc.

There isn't a single sob story here that didn't begin with the borrower braking his contract and not paying his mortgage for some reason that could have easily been safeguarded against.

Agreed. Great post, activeSeven.

The people I spoke with over the course of this nightmare were incompetent, beligerent, rude, uneducated, and incapable of doing their jobs. It was routine to be hung up on after being on hold for 20 minutes. It was common to be transferred from department to department. The most frustrating element was that when you got to the right people, they had no way to help you.

You need to put the situation in context. Banks are flooded with bad loans right now, and are ill-equipped with the resources to manage the massive flood of delinquencies and fraudulent loans. They are swamped up to their eyeballs in these garbage loans.

When a borrower breaks his/her loan contract with the bank by falling behind on the loan payments, that borrower has created a huge nightmare for the bank.

The bank now has to try to find the delinquent borrower - who, 99% of the time, plays a game of hide-and-seek. Most delinquent borrowers disconnect their phones, trash the house held as collateral, and steal every light fixture and appliance in the house itself. They utterly destroy the inside of the house, further devaluing its market value. These same borrowers won't respond to phone calls, e-mails, or certified mail. They disappear into thin air, leaving the bank to clean up the mess.

And what a mess it is. The house -- once worth, say $500,000 -- is now appraised at $200,000, if that. So the bank is now facing a massive loss on the house when it goes up for auction, not to mention collection fees, attorney fees, salaries for loan workout resolution officers, etc. It's quite expensive, and a big hassle for a bank to foreclose. They don't want to deal with these messy, ugly, and aggravating situations.

Loan file after loan file reveals inflated incomes, fraudulent loan applications, bogus appraisals, crooked mortgage brokers doctoring credit reports, etc. If you had to deal with this every day, you might get a little bit jaded.

As a result, any employee dealing with these nightmare loans, can get just a wee bit agitated by borrowers with a chip on their shoulder. And understandably so.

Why would bank (or any business for that matter) pay much courtesy to someone that isn't paying his monthly payments, has defaulted on his contractual loan obligations, and acts like a prima-donna on the telephone? How would you like to be the person that gets to spend 8-10 hours per day trying to put the pieces back together for these fraudulent and defaulted loans?

Don't you think the bank employees get a little bit skeptical after the 1,000th conversation they have had with a delinquent borrower that lies outright, manipulates the truth, tells a bogus sob story, and acts like they are a "victim" and "entitled to a loan modification", etc.? How do you think this situation effects the mental well-being of the bank employee that has to deal with these delinquent borrowers every single day, week after week, day after day?

How would you like to work at a bank where, at any moment, the FDIC could walk through the front door and send you packing, jobless and unemployed? All because of the garbage loans that are on the books, due primarily to fraudulent borrowers. Talk about stress!

You ask for a little sympathy for your loan delinquency. It goes both ways.

The initial cash paid out by the bank to the home seller is a liability to the bank. The loan receivable IS the asset!

The payment of cash by the bank at the closing table is not a liability. That payment of cash -- the "loan" --- is backed by a legally enforceable contract signed by the borrower. Furthermore, the bank will hold a first lien position in the house itself.

The loan itself, as I stated earlier, becomes a loan receivable on the bank's books after the loan paperwork is signed. That loan receivable is an asset, not a liability as you stated earlier. Again, check with your CPA, who will confirm my statements above, and perhaps do a better job of explaining it to you.

Bottom line: Loan receivables are assets for the bank, not liabilities.

Bottom line: Loan receivables are assets for the bank, not liabilities.

Bottom line - your a numb nuts without even half a clue just towing the company line is what I see.

Theclients with th eloans that your predatory banks are foreclosing on are PEOPLE, they are THE CUSTOMER (who is always right and pays your salary).

Without PEOPLE / CUSTOMERS you haveno bank no liens andnojob numbnuts!

These very PEOPLE make up the "community" whos presence jusifys provisions of services like schools and hospitals and when thru predatpry banking practices you've drove these PEOPLE out of their homes and jobs - You numbnuts will be the loudest one to winge because theirs no schools or hospitals for you and yours fully ignoring that you yourself are the very one who helped destroy your communities and country for short term immoral gains for your employer.

Buttwipes like you will never wake up until the bailif is comming for YOUR home too.

Bankers who would put kids out in the street at Christmas by foreclosure are part of the problem not part of the solution.

It takes moral fiber to build a community and buttwipe bankers like you are the very first ones should be lined up against the wall and shot come the revolutionbecayuse you build nothing you take taxpayers money in bailouts pay yourselves obscene bonuses for failure and foreclose on decent citizens to hide your deceitfull ways.

Jesus threw te bankers(moneychangers) OUT of the temple when he came and mark my words he will do it again and I hope your the very first one this time round.

At the moment bankers rate lower on the list of scum than used car salesmen.

Cheers

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Bottom line.....

The Promissory Note To Pay Our Debts
HJR-192 of June 5, 1933 is the promissory note (the promise of Abraham) the
government issued to balance the exchange to credit the people. The Promissory note is on
the debit side of the United States Governments ledger, which was a debited from their
credit, created by the Executive Order of April 5, 1933 when they took the gold out of
circulation. Public Policy is rooted in HJR-192 and is Grace that creates our exemption.
This is your temporal saving grace. Under grace, the law falls away to create a more perfect
contract. Public Policy removed the people's liability to make all payments by making a
contract null if it required the payment to be in substance, because the people didn't have
any money to pay with. All that must be done now is to discharge the liability. Pay and
discharge are similar words but the principles are as different as Old and New Testaments.
The word "pay" is equated with gold and silver, or something of substance like a first-born
lamb, which requires tangible work to be invested in it to remove the liability because an
execution must occur. The word "Discharge" is equated with paper, or even more basic,
simple credits and debits, that exist on paper only, like the slate held by the agents/angels
of heaven that get swiped clean. You cannot pay a bill with a bill and you cannot pay a debt
with a debt. What HJR-192 did was, remove the liability of an obligor (someone obligated to
pay a debt) by making it against Public Policy to pay debts. All that needs to be done now is
discharge the debit with an appropriate credit "dollar for dollar." Debt must be discharged
dollar for dollar in the same sense, as sin was discharged on the Cross. The moment a debt
exists, it must be written off. The catch is, we can't write off the debt because we are not in
possession of the account in deficit; our fiduciary agent is in possession of the account so
we must provide him with the tax return (by the return of the original offer) so the fiduciary
can discharge the liability through their internal revenue service (the bookkeeper). Most feel
that when the money was taken out of society, the people became the slaves, this is not
true, the people were freed from every obligation that society could create thus freeing the
people from any obligation which they may incur simply because we cannot pay a debt. Ask
yourself the question, What are you charging me with? And how do you expect Me to pay?
Simply said, there is no money, plain and simple for me to make the payment with and on
top of that, if I were to pay, who is paying Me to pay that guy and who's paying that guy and
so on... Public Policy is the supercedious bond because it limits our liability to pay. It is the
more perfect contract because it operates on grace to pay our debts after we have done all
that we can. We go as far as we can to fulfill the obligation (acceptance and tax return) and
after we have done all we can, mercy and grace kick in being our exemption to make the
payment. Grace creates our exemption in the industrial society so long as we accept the
charge.

THERE IS NO MONEY.......your signature GIVES the Federal Reserve/Banks the authority to print worthless paper. IT is OUR "money"/divinity/wealth and NOT the banks. What happened is that we were duped into "believing" that when we apply for a "loan" that the banks "give" us a loan FROM the bank, the truth is.....the bank has nothing to loan. Our signature creates the funds and the bank keeps them and tells us we have to pay that much, plus interest, back to them. WRONG!!!!! There books were balanced the second our signature was put to paper. They then tell us we must pay the loan back, but there was no loan, the "money" you give them back plus interest goes STRAIGHT to the bank owner and the rest of the federal mafia. The interest pays the bank employees weekly salary. When oh when are you people gonna wake up to the fraud?

Read my thread and others on the subject of the strawman. Look up the definition in Barrons Law Dictionary Second Edition.

Originally posted by daddio

THERE IS NO MONEY.......your signature GIVES the Federal Reserve/Banks the authority to print worthless paper. IT is OUR "money"/divinity/wealth and NOT the banks. What happened is that we were duped into "believing" that when we apply for a "loan" that the banks "give" us a loan FROM the bank, the truth is.....the bank has nothing to loan. Our signature creates the funds and the bank keeps them and tells us we have to pay that much, plus interest, back to them. WRONG!!!!! There books were balanced the second our signature was put to paper. They then tell us we must pay the loan back, but there was no loan, the "money" you give them back plus interest goes STRAIGHT to the bank owner and the rest of the federal mafia. The interest pays the bank employees weekly salary. When oh when are you people gonna wake up to the fraud?

Read my thread and others on the subject of the strawman. Look up the definition in Barrons Law Dictionary Second Edition.

What exactly is your point here? What is the context under which you bring up this fact? Are you saying that because the money a bank loans you to buy a home is made out of thin air that you should not have to repay it?

I'm pretty sure that when you buy a home that the seller gets a nice check from said Bank. But you are saying that the money is fake cause they made it out of thin air? But the seller can use his fake money to buy very real and tangible objects, like cars, food, furniture....or another house. Doesn't that make the money real?

We all know here on ATS that the money doesn't exist in physical form at the time that we apply for a mortgage, but guess what? So does most of the money on the planet. There has been more money in circulation then there are dollars to account for it for ages now. This isn't news, this isn't a conspiracy and you're certainly not special for pointing it out. The money you use on your debit card doesn't actually "exist" either, they are just some bits on the banks computer right? But you can still use those bits to buy a very real hamburger from your local McDonalds. Then after you buy that burger you can argue for a refund because the burger didn't exist at the time that you placed the order, that they had the audacity to create the burger after the cashier took your fake money.

At the end of the day, this currency we use, be it a dollar or some 0's and 1's in a computer somewhere are all just a medium to measure value. It doesn't matter if it is real or not, or if there is a piece of gold somewhere to hold my dollar against. The buyer and seller BOTH agree to exchange products/services using this medium. So big surprise, we're all using fake money. You think you're telling us something new? Something we didn't already know?

Everyone on this message board uses their very real time to earn very fake money to buy very real objects.

Where is the problem? At the end of the day my real time and energy = real objects. Whatever is the current medium to convert my time to tangible objects and services is irrelevant.

Originally posted by activeSeven

Originally posted by daddio

THERE IS NO MONEY.......your signature GIVES the Federal Reserve/Banks the authority to print worthless paper. IT is OUR "money"/divinity/wealth and NOT the banks. What happened is that we were duped into "believing" that when we apply for a "loan" that the banks "give" us a loan FROM the bank, the truth is.....the bank has nothing to loan. Our signature creates the funds and the bank keeps them and tells us we have to pay that much, plus interest, back to them. WRONG!!!!! There books were balanced the second our signature was put to paper. They then tell us we must pay the loan back, but there was no loan, the "money" you give them back plus interest goes STRAIGHT to the bank owner and the rest of the federal mafia. The interest pays the bank employees weekly salary. When oh when are you people gonna wake up to the fraud?

Read my thread and others on the subject of the strawman. Look up the definition in Barrons Law Dictionary Second Edition.

Doesn't that make the money real?

The money you use on your debit card doesn't actually "exist" either, they are just some bits on the banks computer right? But you can still use those bits to buy a very real hamburger from your local McDonalds. Then after you buy that burger you can argue for a refund because the burger didn't exist at the time that you placed the order, that they had the audacity to create the burger after the cashier took your fake money.

At the end of the day, this currency we use, be it a dollar or some 0's and 1's in a computer somewhere are all just a medium to measure value. It doesn't matter if it is real or not, or if there is a piece of gold somewhere to hold my dollar against. The buyer and seller BOTH agree to exchange products/services using this medium. So big surprise, we're all using fake money. You think you're telling us something new? Something we didn't already know?

Everyone on this message board uses their very real time to earn very fake money to buy very real objects.

Where is the problem? At the end of the day my real time and energy = real objects. Whatever is the current medium to convert my time to tangible objects and services is irrelevant.

What you are given for your labor is a claim check, you turn that claim check in for IOU's that the privately owned Federal Reserve bank prints for 4 cents a copy. They trade these "notes" to the U.S. Treasury, which is owned by ALL Americans for the face value in bonds. The Federal Reserve owners then take those bonds and sell them or trade them on the international market for Oil, Gold, Silve, Crops, Land and other things of real value. What do you not understand here? You and I are being screwed over big time. It is all a fraud. The natural resources of this planet are owned by ALL the people, if someone comes along with a way to extract them, HE does not own them outright but must share the bounty with everyone. BUT, the Elite have cornered the market on BS and have duped everyone else into believing they have the power because THEY came up with the original plan. Look at Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Alaska. The people in these countries get a "share" of the value each year. A very tidy sum too. Yes, Alaska is it's own republic, a seperate nation from the corporate "U.S.". If you knew of your "trust account" you could then "accept for value" and return for discharge, ALL YOUR DEBT. You also file a 1041 and NOT a 1040, at the end of the year. You claim the loss in fiduciary fees as the cost for keeping the strawman alive for the year. The amount can be the same as your income for the year. I could keep going but what is the point?

Edit to add....the defintion of a "closing" is that ALL business transactions are done, the deal is complete. The "mortgage" is the fraudulent "promissory note" they you were coerced into signing. Without full disclosure it is null and void. The mortgage company is the "constitutor", look that up..

Originally posted by daddio

What you are given for your labor is a claim check, you turn that claim check in for IOU's that the privately owned Federal Reserve bank prints for 4 cents a copy. They trade these "notes" to the U.S. Treasury, which is owned by ALL Americans for the face value in bonds. The Federal Reserve owners then take those bonds and sell them or trade them on the international market for Oil, Gold, Silve, Crops, Land and other things of real value. What do you not understand here? You and I are being screwed over big time. It is all a fraud. The natural resources of this planet are owned by ALL the people, if someone comes along with a way to extract them, HE does not own them outright but must share the bounty with everyone. BUT, the Elite have cornered the market on BS and have duped everyone else into believing they have the power because THEY came up with the original plan. Look at Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Alaska. The people in these countries get a "share" of the value each year. A very tidy sum too. Yes, Alaska is it's own republic, a seperate nation from the corporate "U.S.". If you knew of your "trust account" you could then "accept for value" and return for discharge, ALL YOUR DEBT. You also file a 1041 and NOT a 1040, at the end of the year. You claim the loss in fiduciary fees as the cost for keeping the strawman alive for the year. The amount can be the same as your income for the year. I could keep going but what is the point?

Sooo....what your saying is that the OP shouldn't have to pay his mortgage anymore because "You and I are being screwed over big time. It is all a fraud". You're being ridiculous, I don't care if I work to get a claim check for fake money, or bags of rice, or candy bars or anything else. As long as what I work for can buy me real and tangible items then it doesn't matter what the currency is.

Sounds more to me like you are derailing the thread by going down a totally different rabbit hole. All the micro facts that you bring up don't change the fact that you agreed to pay for something with "fake money".

Originally posted by daddio
. The "mortgage" is the fraudulent "promissory note" they you were coerced into signing. Without full disclosure it is null and void.

edit on 10-12-2010 by daddio because: (no reason given)

No one coerced me to contact my realtor.

No one coerced me to speak with my lender.

No one coerced me to shop for a home.

No one coerced me to apply for a mortgage.

No one coerced me to sign any paper work.

Did you miss my first post entirely? I know exactly what I am getting in to. I am buying real items with fake money. Big friggin deal. So is everyone else in the country.

If you have a better way to buy tangible items in this country then by all means, enlighten us. But if all your going to do is spew out conspiracy theories and crying about the boogie man then your just waisting our time and totally derailing this thread.

Bottom line - your a numb nuts without even half a clue just towing the company line is what I see.

That's a great introduction to your post. I am sure you will make lots of friends on ATS by calling them insulting names. Good for you.

they are THE CUSTOMER (who is always right and pays your salary).

They cease becoming a customer when they stop paying their mortgage payments on time, if at all. Delinquent borrowers don't pay a banker's salary - That's the whole problem - They aren't paying at all!

I find it intriguing that you are advocating that people stiff their creditors. That's a great way to build an economy, wouldn't you agree? Screw your creditor over - That will make our economy strong again.

Let's see....Mr Viking earned $200k a year, lived in a half a million dollar house, and can afford to hire a high-priced attorney. What's wrong with this picture? Am I supposed to feel some sympathy?

Jesus threw te bankers(moneychangers) OUT of the temple when he came and mark my words he will do it again and I hope your the very first one this time round.

Jesus would never have advocated criminal fraud. Neither would Jesus favor screwing over your creditors. Both are against Jewish Law, now and then.

It takes moral fiber to build a community and buttwipe bankers like you are the very first ones should be lined up against the wall and shot come the revolutionbecayuse you build nothing you take taxpayers money in bailouts pay yourselves obscene bonuses for failure and foreclose on decent citizens to hide your deceitfull ways.

More advocacy of violence. Or are you just kidding? Goodness forbid I take your quote out of context, right?

At the moment bankers rate lower on the list of scum than used car salesmen.

Not as low as deadbeat borrowers and criminals that commit mortgage fraud.

You also file a 1041 and NOT a 1040, at the end of the year. You claim the loss in fiduciary fees as the cost for keeping the strawman alive for the year.

Yeah, I am pretty sure this is the same line of thinking that landed Wesley Snipes 3 years in jail.

No one coerced me to sign any paper work.

Amen, brother.

reply to post by activeSeven


I am not derailing anything but the myth of "money". If you people were to read Mary: Croft..spiritualeconomicsnow.net...
And read the redemption manual, we do owe nothing, everything can be written off. The federal government, by the act of HJR-192, made out a promissory note to pay ALL public debts. ALL moprtgage com[anies and other financial institutions are "constitutors", obligators to pay the publics debts. Our birth certificates created treasury bonds worth millions. Yes, we are all worth millions and it is up to you to collect yours.

reply to post by lostviking


Sue dem fu**ers!
It is for their own good!
How else they would realize spiritual progress is on the way?

One more thing:

KEEP IT UP!

Never let you down

Kokatsi