Explain what you think De JaVu is.

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


You are certainly welcome to your opinion, but to accuse me of being "vastly uninformed" is a bit haughty.
I have researched the subject quite thoroughly. Much more than the simple wiki article you mentioned. As I said, I'm fascinated with the subject. There are literally dozens upon dozens of theories about deja vu, ranging from practical to outright silly. Some of the earlier researchers who suggested it's somehow dream related have come up sadly lacking, without a shred of real evidence. Some even claimed their research revealed a "certain percentage" of deja vu events were linked to "precognitive dreams"...again, with no real evidence.
I'm not talking about some of the more exotic offshoots you mentioned. I'm referring to deja-vu as I described...
the intense feeling of having "lived" an event before. A waking, fully conscious experience that, as I said, has no relation whatsoever to dreaming or the dream state.

I have a relative who is working in Japan with a team of scientists studying brain "processes" through functional MRI. We've discussed deja-vu, and he said the fact that epileptics often have it intensely before a seizure is certainly compelling, if not overwhelming evidence that deja vu is a temporal-lobe phenomenon. Modern scientific studies have disproved a ton of early theories on deja vu. I guess the internet doesn't necessarily facilitate the spread of newer knowledge.

I have read some of Bem's studies, and while they're compelling, they are hardly proven through replication. He's a psychologist, not a 'hard' scientist. Some of his peers write off Bem's work as nonsense.

He he, it makes me chuckle when people make claims to know what something like deja-vu is. Drop the egos, folks and just be honest. We don't know. There have been studies which have come up pretty much vague on the answer - they don't know either but each scientist wants to make his/her name for themself so claims to have solved the riddle. To narrow it down to science in the first place shows a lack of understanding.

A better way would be to simply say 'my opinion is', or 'i think deja-vu could be...' rather than making statements as if they are fact then arguing with someone who disagrees! Sheesh, drop the ego and open your mind.

reply to post by ypperst


I had that many times too, where i get the feeling of Deja vu then can say to my self 'this person is going to say this' then they do. The scientific explanation of nerons or the eye sending signals twice definitely does not cover predicting what someone will say before they say it.

I have had a few very intense bouts of deja-vu, which usually involve a repeated vision, similar to what people here are calling deja-vu in deja-vu... What I have had repeated experiences in seeing can only be described as a vision cube, and an immense feeling that I have been to this place, or thought, or whatever it is, before. I don't buy the "eyes sending signals twice" explanation for this reason- I have had repeated, seemingly identical deja-vu experiences. And what's stranger is that I never really remember what the vision looks like (as I said, a cube is the best I can do to describe it, but it's so much more than that), until it is happening and I am experiencing the deja-vu, and I instantly recognize the repeated vision. Thanks for starting this thread, I've really enjoyed everyones replies!

Okay, this is just a thought that came to me at about midnight last night, while I was rereading some chapters of Stephen Hawking's book, The Grand Design, because I could not fall asleep. So I was rereading chapter 4, "Alternative Histories," and if anyone has read this book/chapter then you'll know what I'm getting at. I'm not schooled in physics in any way, shape, or form, I actually failed it in high school...but I love to read theoretical physics on my free time now. It was the only subject that kicked my butt in school, so now I try really hard to grasp it, which usually entails rereading a book about 5 times.

So my crazy thought, what IF our subconscious and conscious function based on separate "laws of nature" or that our subconscious lies on a different plane from our consciousness? Like classical mechanics vs. quantum mechanics...

This came to me when reading about buckyballs (pictured below) in quantum physics.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/583d6ef6b850.gif[/atsimg]
Buckyballs to our relative perspective, seen with our eye, appear to simply travel from point A to point B in a straight line, but when doing expirements on this, the buckyballs did not end up in the "expected" spots for a particle that was traveling in a straight, defined line. In the buckyball's reality, the buckyball is taking every possible path to get from point A to point B simultaneously, though it appears to our eye to just go from A to B.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/4c5d30b9112d.jpg[/atsimg]
This picture shows how, to us, the buckyball appears to move as in figure A, but really it is moving as in figure B in this picture.

Well, what if what composites our subconscious behaves like buckyballs, traveling every possible path before arriving at point B? What then, if precognition or déjà vu is just our conscious-being catching a glimpse of a possible traveled path by our subconscious? So maybe déjà vu is our conscious recalling of a path already traveled by our subconscious...

Or, maybe it is related to waves as discussed in chapter 3 of the same book, and the examples of puddle interference and Newton's rings. Maybe déjà vu is caused by an interference wave from our subconscious meeting with our conscious, and thus producing the feeling that we had already been there, because technically then, our subconscious would have actually "been" there before.
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/06c699e912c0.gif[/atsimg]
If true, this would mean that our subconscious knows every possible future and past, where as our consciousness only seems to follow a straight "line". So, maybe déjà vu is created when our subconscious reality interferes with our conscious reality by some means.

Just a thought, I get lots of weird ones when I'm trying to fall asleep.

Originally posted by ColeYounger
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

 

as I said, has no relation whatsoever to dreaming or the dream state.

And this is where you are wrong.

reply to post by SpaceJ


I like that as well. Just last night, I was with my girlfriend and all of a sudden I knew everything, what she was wearing, my books and amp and everything in the room was (as I felt) seen before, and I remembered we got into a bad arguement. Well, we were drinking a Joose and sometimes, (if you know how girls can be when drinking) they tend to argue with you even if you are agreeing with them. So I decided im not going down that path, and tried everything to make that from not happening. At the time we were also getting a tad bit annoyed with eachother and I knew where that could lead, so I told her about it and even though we didn't get into a huge arguement, by the end of the night we were still mildly argueing over subjects like Bill'OReily and the latest terrorist bomber. Im not saying it is directly related to dreams all the time, but I believe sometimes it is, and no matter what science has come out and tried to prove they will never totally understand until they go outside the box. Most science is based on facts, if they cant see it and test it then it's not real science. It's like spirits, which in my opinion are very real.

We have great evidence of it, especially if you have watched the show on Travel Channel called Ghost Adventures. They get fantastic evidence, and they actually stay all night in these places to just see if something is there that's on another level. We know it's not fake. Just three friends/partners who stay by themselves in complete darkness trying to capture and contact spirits. We are all made out of energy, and energy can't be created or destroyed, so in a sense it's "eternal." So I think if we truly have a soul and our soul is truly energy, then that's why it can use it's energy to manipulate our new technological devices that are being created. Another reason I believe this is because I saw first hand a light in the shape of an orb in complete darkness shoot out from the roof and right back up through the roof. It literally lasted one second or less, and stopped right in it's tracks and shot back up. In my opinion, I KNOW this was a spirit, and that was it's energy. There is no other explanation, I tried researching, and thinking it was a light form outside but like I stated previously, the window was completely blocked from top to bottom by two sets of curtains. I looked up somewhere, with the "color" it was, that it was a messenger sending your prayers to God, funny thing is I was praying and had a giant stature of Jesus Christ right over my head. Not saying that has anything to do with it at all, considering I will never be able to explain it. Sorry for sort of jumping into another subject. My main point in this paragraph was to describe why real science isn't always 100% correct, considering real science say's this isn't real.

reply to post by ^anubis^


..... a truly interesting topic!!!
You have made me rethink what I thought I knew!!!!

Deja Vu???? to me it's like this:
many times I'd be having a conversation with someone, and during the actual conversation, in the back of my mind, I was thinking: "HEY, I did this already!! this is not just happening right now, it happened before!! same conversation, same person/s, same location, etc.!!!!!!!!!!

and that's what I thought it was.........but now I'm not so sure......

Anyone else ever had this type of thing happen to them?

reply to post by PreyBird


What?... No support for my theory? Or is it too simple of an explanation to its so called "complexity". What ever happened to denying ignorance? Although, I urge everyone to take heed of the words noted in my signature.

Cheers

reply to post by PreyBird


Your explanation is crap. A total nonsense theory about some "alleged" brain misfiring. Any evidence to support that neurons (and specifically which neurons) magically misfire to produce Deja Vu. What is the underlying neurological disorder that then causes said misfiring?

Care to elaborate with any facts?

reply to post by YouAreDreaming


You asked for facts... I give you facts.

Holding in your breath from that big ass bong hit is more than enough to create trauma within the tempral lobe.

This is just one example from a very reputable source of information.

MAYO CLINIC - Temporal Lobe Seizure

Point and Serve


Oh what the hell... Here is another
5 Common Causes of Deja Vu

I could reference some medical journals if you like as well.

you have a long term memory bank and a short term memory bank. de ja vu is when you have witnessed soemthing but instead of going into your short term bank it goes into your long term bank which makes you feel like youve done this before. but you havnt

Originally posted by PreyBird
reply to post by YouAreDreaming

 

You asked for facts... I give you facts.

Holding in your breath from that big ass bong hit is more than enough to create trauma within the tempral lobe.

This is just one example from a very reputable source of information.

MAYO CLINIC - Temporal Lobe Seizure

Point and Serve

Ok, this is where this is completely generalized. People who do not suffer TLE still have Deja Vu. Next.

Originally posted by PreyBird
Oh what the hell... Here is another
5 Common Causes of Deja Vu

I could reference some medical journals if you like as well.

So far, not so good here either, even the article makes it clear that this "may" be causes but again is speculative and theoretical, not factual.

Some of the possible common medical causes of Déjà vu may include:

How about a better "spooky action from a distance" answer: Human consciousness scales up from the quantum scale and uses quantum states as part of the information processing in the dendrils and axions of the neuron. The brain uses coherent photons to form a holographic diffraction pattern within the tubulin lattice that scales up into a broader unified field of consciousness.

Jeff Tolkasens work has shown that photons also exhibit backwards causality where the future can affect the past using lasers and very sensitive mirrors. This has been reproduced at the University of Rochester and is known as the rochester experiment.

discovermagazine.com...

If the brain is using photons also as part of it's information processing then I present a hypothesis that deja vu is related to backwards causality from a neurological standpoint. It's just a natural effect of non-linear, non-local states of quantum mechanics and those effects on human consciousness.

The Rochester experiment proves the "future" already exists if it can affect the "past" and the arrow of time can point on other directions then forward.

Our brain already naturally uses these states as a by-product of photon based information processing within the neuron.

We already exist in that future, and the information has been somehow relayed via non-localized routes, hence why some acute cases of deja vu can allow you to accurately recall events minutes before they happen and complete other peoples sentences or know clear details moments before they happen.

It's all information coming from "spooky action from a distance" type effects on consciousness as a natural effect of quantum entanglement and superposition.

my 2 cents

Many of the "psychic experiences" that are volunteered to parapsychologists by the general population involve apparent precognition. In one review of a U.S. case collection, submitted to Duke University's Parapsychology Laboratory, 75% of 1777 dream-based experiences were of an ostensibly precognitive type, as were 60% of 1513 wakeful experiences.[8] A similar pattern was identified for a separate collection of 157 cases experienced by children; here, the largest category of experiences was again of precognitive dreams (52%), followed by precognitive intuitions (52%).[9] A German case collection produced a similar figure: 52% of 1,000 cases were of the apparently precognitive type.[10] A British study of 300 volunteered cases showed 34% to be apparently precognitive.[11]

en.wikipedia.org...

physics or chemistry equations see the future
I guess all equations tell you what the future will be given known variables...
some had to dream those up

the dream state starts at anything less then full awareness, like hypnotism,
so we are all
all over the scale at any given time,



.

In my opinon, Deja Vu is a dream that we had, that actually comes true.

For example, I had a dream once when I was younger that was not very significant, but interesting to me because it had people I knew in it. I told my best friend about the dream and everything that was done and said because she knew the people in it too and we used to always tell each other our dreams. I don't know why. Just something little girls do. That summer at camp, my dream happened. I asked my friend if she remembered me telling her about the dream I had. She said yes, and I told her that it happened. Same place, same things were done, same people were around me, same things were said. My dream actually came true.

I think Deja Vu is a dream coming true, but we just don't remember the dream.

reply to post by ColeYounger
I get deja vu quite often, at least every other day. This is how it works with me, heres what happened a couple of nights ago, i got my daughter out of the bath, sat her down and started combing her hair, then this thought came into my head, ' she about to complain to me about hurting her head', she did, then ' she about to say she doesnt want such and such for supper' she did. Now this is something i did experience, although whether it has any spiritual relevance or is just my brain playing tricks on me, i am yet to discover, although my gut feeling suggests to me that it is the latter, however i may be wrong.

Originally posted by ^anubis^
Hello everyone,

I'm posting this small thread because i really want to share it with you guys.

So one of my cousins was explaining this religion that he participates in, i cant remember the name but he explained to me how before we come to this live we see choose what our next life is gonna be like, we pick our parents and we see what that entire life is gonna be like and we choose depending on your deeds in your past life.

What is de javu is just your soul somehow having a small recollection of some part of what you saw before coming to this life.

It would make sense to me.

Ive also been thinking lately,
that perhaps deja-vu is just experiencing something that we have already foreseen,
but not actually "experienced" yet...
whether it be in a dream, or just as a flash, or a quick vision.
But since time is not 'real'..
I think we are basically just "seeing into the future", without even realizing it when it happens..
never realizing anything "extra-ordinary" is happening, until we get the feeling of
"hey, ive seen and felt, exactly this before" , but we don't even think anything of that ..
we just put it off as "deja-vu"....
as if "deja-vu" and the other 'mundane' explanations for it make any more sense.
lol
They actually make less sense to me..

I do like your friends idea....
Thanks for sharing.

Originally posted by xxshadowsecretxx
In my opinon, Deja Vu is a dream that we had, that actually comes true.

For example, I had a dream once when I was younger that was not very significant, but interesting to me because it had people I knew in it. I told my best friend about the dream and everything that was done and said because she knew the people in it too and we used to always tell each other our dreams. I don't know why. Just something little girls do. That summer at camp, my dream happened. I asked my friend if she remembered me telling her about the dream I had. She said yes, and I told her that it happened. Same place, same things were done, same people were around me, same things were said. My dream actually came true.

I think Deja Vu is a dream coming true, but we just don't remember the dream.

You are correct sir!

Not that these non-precognitive aware people will agree... the fact is you and many many others have deja that relates to dreaming which completely subverts all the TLE, Schizo and other neurological non-sense simply does not fit with that paradigm!

Happy dreaming!

My take on it is that everything, including different stages of time, coexist. So that means that the past exists, the future exists, all while the present is existing. That's why past memories stay in your mind. Right now, I am five years old, but I am also dead. The future, past, and present all exist and happen at the same time, making time an illusion. When you feel deja vu, it's a strange feeling of already experiencing something, even though you've never experienced it in the past (which is, as I said, an illusion). So it's the sudden realization of there being no such thing as time, just coming and going. So that, means the future already exists. This is also supported by the idea of retrocausality, the theory that the future affects the past. This isn't just some kooky strange conspiracy, retrocausality is actually acknowledged by scientists. Just do a quick google search on retrocausality.

reply to post by TheThinker101


Retrocausality is fact. The "arrow of time" points on other directions. The future already exists, and that is something we have to really wrap our limited world view of "time" around. How deterministic is the "Future"? I believe it's a probability database so to speak.

Many pre-calculated permutations of probable futures exist and life is like a choose your own adventure book helping you make limited choices based on circumstances that direct you to certain epoch events that shape and define who you are as an evolving player in this game of life.