F-117 in North Korea (What kind of AirDefence do they have)

The nighthawk has been temporarily deployed to Kusan AFB on a temporary basis
www.globalsecurity.org...

I have been looking around and there is not a ton of information on the North Korean Air Defence network. Does anybody know if they have an integrated on like the Serbians possesed?. Im sure they have the good old standby the SA-2, but what of the later Russian designs?

they have more than SA-2 and 3's check out this link it gives the info near the end of the page.

www.globalsecurity.org...

I would imagine that they have prepared them selves fully. As for taking out nighthawks they might be able to do that. Particuarly if they use lots of AAA fire with SAMs. As for modern stealths I doubt that there up to that. I can imagine that they are somewhat out dated do to isolationism of sorts. The Dept. of Defense probably knows about everything near the parallell.

Thanks. I had read that link, but it seemed thin on the exact nature of the air defence network. But I should not be surprised because of how closed off NK is. Intersting in looking at thier order of battle, the number of Mig 29 inceased in 2002. Wonder which of our "allies" helped out with that?

Originally posted by cyberdude78
As for modern stealths I doubt that there up to that. I can imagine that they are somewhat out dated do to isolationism of sorts. The Dept. of Defense probably knows about everything near the parallell.

They may have more problems with the F-117. Aviation week did a really nice analysis of the shootdown over Yugoslavia and it was a cobination of factors that lead to its downing. The B-2 should pretty much be invincible with the fiorces they have, but if they get AWACS support from the CHiComs, it may be a different story.

The Chinese barley stole one awacs from Russia they don't have any to give to N. Korea seeing as they just stole on from Russia.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The Chinese barley stole one awacs from Russia they don't have any to give to N. Korea seeing as they just stole on from Russia.

and its not very good to boot! How much air controll would they really need though? Strap em in like the Kamakazis of old and send to the front to be picked clean by the F-15 and F-16 flying BARCAP

Originally posted by WestPoint23
The Chinese barley stole one awacs from Russia they don't have any to give to N. Korea seeing as they just stole on from Russia.

Considering the Chinese have several highly capable AWACs class aircraft in their fleet (I think they have about 12 of them, Ill post a follow up when Im less busy) I dont think they have to press into service any 'stolen' AWACs.

The Chinese arent as crap as you think, after all they have been planning and developing a military around direct US interference in any Taiwan invasion, so I think they would be in a position to counter most threats in that arena.

Granted, the US has stealth capability, but the F-117s are nearing 30 year old technology and have been known to deteriorate in humid conditions like NK, plus the fact it has been proven you can down one using a normal shoulder mounted SAM. B-2s are better technology, newer, but they are still slow and although they have so far remained unscathed, unlike the F-117, in the Serbian conflict several missiles were fired at B-2s on missions.

While no missiles made a successful interception, most were close enough for US military operations planners to make changes to B-2 operations in that conflict, altering things like number of 'cover' aircraft flying parallel tracks etc (up until this happened, B-2s usually flew solo missions, with little or no other US aircraft in the area at the time).

And of course there are now 'off the shelf' RADAR systems that are peported to be able to detect the B-2 and F-117, using technology like phased arrays, distributed arrays, multihomed arrays, shifted timing systems, ambient electromagnetic field sensors etc etc. All of these have been proven against standard aircraft, and in theory most should work against a B-2.

Rich you have links for these stories one the B-2 so far has not been detected and shot down two the F-117 will greatly improve its survivability by changing some planning and tactics also if things aren't going well then we can always ship one of our newer stealth plane over to help out.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Rich you have links for these stories one the B-2 so far has not been detected and shot down two the F-117 will greatly improve its survivability by changing some planning and tactics also if things aren't going well then we can always ship one of our newer stealth plane over to help out.

Well,

1. I never said the B-2 had been shot down, I said it had been shot at, and no, I cant provide links to the claims of serbian missiles being close on target because Im reading it on US mission planners reports from that era (1997,1998,1999) which are only provided on paper. If you request the exit reports (post mission reports) for the B-2 missions over serbia and kosovo using the FOIA then you can too read these reports (tho I doubt you will get the detail I get).

A plane doesnt have to be shot down for it to be considered 'at risk' during subsequent mission plans.

2. THe F-117 can maintain survivability but it has been proven that its stealth abilities have decreased recently and its lost a great amount of credability in missions over European or humid climates. As such its mission abilities in these combat environments have been altered to such a point where they only fulfil niche attack roles, while playing more of a central role in the middle east combat environments.

Notice how the F-117 was widely used and publicised in attacks during the gulf war in 1991, yet in the recent conflict it played much less of a role. Those 12 years inbetween havent been kind to the F-117 fleet, with operational numbers at times falling below 40%. The F-117 fleet costs a lot of money to maintain and parts are hard to manufacture, with recent operational problems being at a time when major components are planned for replacement across the fleet.

As for further stealth aircraft, Im not 100% convinced that the US has much more in an operational role than it has currently. Im sure that the 'Aurora' exists, else why would they retire the SR-71 series at a time when satalite launches were at an all time low.

Im quite certain that the plane we all refer to was never called the Aurora tho, as that name was proven to be a budget line item for B-2 trailing wing edge radar observability modifications, which is also supported by the fact that B-2 canopy/cockpit modifications were made under the budget line item name of 'Borealis', which both together gives you the latin for 'Northern Lights'.

If things weren't going well with the F-117 you think the US would send some F-22? I think it would be a great risk even though they have great stealth properties.

you have a total of 24 f22's do you think the USAF is gona let them take them to a small country surrounded by enemies?
also the F22 is far to valuable for them to risk losing it to the chinese or NK just yet.
if they got thier hands on a downed F22 the tech from it would greatly help them.

but maybe they would not send them to do bombing missions cuz they have the B-2 for that but what about for air to air combat to face the Su-30 i think they would snd the raptors to kill the 40-50 Su-30's that china has then the F-15 can take over the raptors job when eh Su-30 are destryed.

So much lack of world politics here, China will no longer majorly support N. Korea, so stop assuming they will arm them.

N. Korea is a Stalinist state, China hated Stalinism.

As for shooting down aircraft? Chances are the Air Force's Special Forces (I forget what they are called, used to secure downed aircraft and pilots) will get to it first.

Air-Defence:
14.5mm ZPU-4 and 23mm ZU-23 AAGs
57mm ZSU-57-2 SPAAG
HN-5A SAM

Probably some more by now.

Considering N. Korea's ties with the Soviet Union its Air Deffence is most likely still modeled after the Soviet's which we now have much information on.

I doubt that the F-22 will see deployment out side the US for years. Just because they are expensive, the technology is years ahead of most other countries, and we don't have to many of them yet. The wonderful thing about AAA fire is that it doesn't have to lock on to hit the target. If you use a manually aimed AA gun then you can still shoot at a stealth. Especially since B-2s and F-117s aren't the fastest of planes. If its visible to the naked eye it can be shot at which means it can be shot down. But I would expect the Dept. of Defense to have accurate info on N. Koreas air defense.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
I doubt that the F-22 will see deployment out side the US for years.

I have to agree with you on that. Unless the AF was facing a crdible A to A threat, why would theyrisk having the F-22's secrets fall inot the hands of adversaries.

CB thats why both the F-117 and B-2 do their bombing mission at night so that they are not visable to the naked eye nor to radar

this jet does not yet even have any launchers or bomb rack in which to shoot off munitions....its has been done in test phase but thats it...the f-117 that got shot down in kosovo was due to idiot Officers ie. Generals makeing american pilots fky the same damm route for 2 weeks straight.. they just waited for our f-117 to fly by and when they did one day the bomb bay of the f-117 stuck..well with no kind of evasion such as chaff for heat seeking sams the f-117 was hit and downed. f-117 have no 90 angles..they are never spots to bounce radar back from..but when you open a radar antene or a landing gear door or in this care the bomb bay this plane is as useless as any we have...if this plane goes too fast thr RAm peels off and it takes a minimun 7 days to get jet up and running....furthermore the f-22 craptor cannot fly if it gets a scratch..i know people who were changing tires on this aircraft and scratch the paint and the f-22 was grounded for 1 week..anyone want to send that pos to iraq or anywhere???

Man the ram peels off any proof? if scratched it is downed for a week not even the B-2 which has the most sensitive ram gets grounded for a week and the F-22 was designed to have a durable ram and if it can fire them on a test phase then it doesn't take a genius to know that it can fire them on real now does it

yes the ram does peels off.....if the f-117 banks at high speeds and is low enough to the ground you can actually see the ram coming off.....people in the airforce who work on sheet metal for the aircrafts are sheet metal troops....in the f-117's case they are called martians...and they get really pissed off when young pilots come to their f-117's and try high banks because ram does peel off...and yes the damm jet is grounded for atleast 5 days...they must replace the ram..put it on..and it has a 4 day check to make sure its good.....and the f-22 raptor is even worse....that jet cannot be sneezed on at all or its grounded.....let me tell you a little secret.. it has fired in test phase so has the f-117....back in the 1980's the USAF was trying to get money from congress for another Bomber...congress wouldnt give them any money for a bomber so the USAF made the f-117 shoot 1 god darn aim-9 air 2 air missle only 1 time never again and that made it a fighter...same with the f-22...i has fired but i cannot now due to its being to damm fragile..i work on this jet belive me