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The Danger of WikiLeaks: Why the organization could be doing more harm than good

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posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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I must admit that I haven't read all postings, but about 95% of the posters contributing to this thread are US citizens.

Well I am not and looking at that from a different angle. For me the US became a too strong and instable country. The release of the cables might be an eye opener for a lot of people. The US is not anybodies friend, just like North Korea or Iran. For me WL contributes with releasing this information in a way to humanity.

The US is a ticking (nuclear) time bomb for me, just like Iran is. Especially when you get the idea whats going on behind the curtains. I hope wikileaks will continue to put some light on the US and who they really are.

I feel with you Americans like I do with the Iranians, good people but evil government.




posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by C64Warrior
I feel with you Americans like I do with the Iranians, good people but evil government.

But the difference between the Americans' bad government, and the Iranian's bad government, is we can say almost anything we want about our government without worrying about going to prison.

Well, almost anything. I mean, right now I can post on the internet, with no fear, that my government is more evil than good. Sure, we citizens live in freedom, have nice things, etc. But our government is very powerful, very corrupt, and very secret.

I have no reason to fear that I could be arrested by poli...@#$D ap7(*&#/

***NO CARRIER***



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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reply to post by harrytuttle
 


I had to crack up at this



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by C64Warrior
 


Well, depending upon which country you are from, you may not be here posting this today if it were not for some degree of intradiction in your history by the "Evil U.S. Government"

The "Ticking Time bombs" are smaller govenments using technology to buy a chip in the big game, without the effective resources to police themselves or be responsible for their interactions with the rest of the world. If you think there are bad leaders in the U.S., take a look around the world and see if you would like them pointing a missile at your country.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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I personally believe WikiLeaks is a positive thing. The only real problem I foresee is that governments now will start to ramp up their efforts to clamp down on Internet freedom as a whole. This is the single thing we must avoid at all costs. We must fight against Internet "regulation" a.k.a. censorship and information suppression with real resolution. This is already happening in Australia, with a proposed move for a compulsory web filter that will also include WikiLeaks. Who wants to have a global China-style web?



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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reply to post by charlyv
 


Thank God

I know there are a lot of Americans here. A lot of people are not American. I say, give them their say, because they don't live here. This is a dog eat dog world here.

I watch History International specials about Egypt, India and I think to myself, boy, we Americans really miss out on the world.

American citizens are not their idiotic government. I would just like to encourage the fact that everyone who speaks here is a citizen.

Maybe.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Having read your post earlier this evening, I took a stroll around the interweb looking for similar sentiments and came across an article/blog in The Telegraph which essentially argues that it is history and academia that will lose from wikileaks actions because information will not be as readily preserved for future generations. The blog was crap, the sentiment might have small merit but...

In the comments section I found a post that I wanted to share because it highlights that people are thinking similarly on other sites too. Anyway over to tony_opmoc:

tony_opmoc Yesterday 11:23 PM The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wikileak's Document Dump whatreallyhappened.com... Michael Rivero Wikileaks, following much media fanfare (reason for suspicion right there) has just released a huge number of documents supposedly leaked to WikiLeaks and no other websites'. The media is denouncing this as a threat to the United States while US politicians wring their hands and wonder when they will be free of the curse of the First Amendment and all that troublesome nonsense about Freedom of Speech. Many observers think this is a propaganda set up and that neither Julian Assange or WikiLaeks should be taken at face value. After all, Julian Assange keeps insisting there was no 9-11 conspiracy and the 9-11 truth movement a "distraction." Apparently Julian Assange has patented conspiracy and nobody else may expose one except himself! Of course, there is really not that much that is new in this latest dump. Like prior WikiLeaks dumps, most of it is old news mixed with some rather dubious claims. In his last such dump, Julian Assange included a claim that Osama bin Laden is still alive and controlling Al Qaeda. Of course, it is well documented outside the United States that Osama bin Laden has been dead for many years and that Al Qaeda itself is a fake front group created to hoax Americans into endless wars of conquest, much as the fictional Emmanuel Goldstein was used in George Orwell's "1984." In yet another infamous propaganda attempt, WikiLeaks tried to claim that weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, justifying the invasion. No such weapons were ever found. As for the present batch of documents, again it is a rehash of stories already known to the blog-o-sphere. Even those people who did not know US diplomats spy on their United Nations counterparts did not find it surprising or in any way a new idea. So what is the real purpose of Assange's little charade? Propaganda. Propaganda is like rat poison. 95% of it is tasty, healthy food. But the purpose is to get you to swallow the poison. The same is true of the WikiLeaks document dump. The bait are all these old stories which we already knew about, used to convince us that the entire pile is "tasty, healthy food," except that it isn't. Buried in the pile of delicious, albeit past the expiration date morsels are the bits of poison which the US Government knows you will no longer accept at face value from the controlled media, but hope you will eat if handed to you by a con artist posing as hostile to the government. So, given that 95% of the current WikiLeaks is really old news, as a public service I will point out the bits of poison that Julian hopes you will eat. 1. Iran is bad so you should all want to kill them. 2. Saudi Arabia is bad because they are funding Al Qaeda so you should all want to kill them. 3. North Korea is bad because they gave really long range missiles to Iran for Iran to put their nuclear warheads in, so you should all want to kill them. 4. China is messing with your computers, so you should all want to kill them. That about sums it up. Oh yes, there is nothing negative about Israel in all these diplomatic messages, an impossibility given the lethal Israeli attack on the Aid Flotilla last May. That suggests who Assange really works for. Funny thing about rat poison. After a while the rats learn to eat the food and leave the poison behind. Report Recommend



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon
reply to post by smurfy
 



Are you now saying then, that while these cable leaks are genuine, (and so far nobody is denying them as being anything but genuine even if they are a bit more than embarassing) and that any more leaks by Wiki might not be genuine, but planted info for Wiki to grab onto?


No, I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that this latest dump is all truth. In fact, I think that it very well could be disinformation and probably is. Regardless of whether it is true or not, we have no way of knowing whether it's true and since none of it has been proven to be true, I'll just discount all of it.

In fact, if I had to put money on it, I would say that much of it is disinformation, with some real information for credibility's sake. However that is just my opinion and irrelevant to the point made in the OP.

What I am saying is that an organization such as WL, needs to be looked at with skepticism and suspicion,just like anything else, though more so due to the nature of it's charter and the subject in which deals. I'm also saying that there is a very good chance that WL itself could very well be a disinfo campaign, created by TPTB (whomever you believe them to be) and if they aren't, then the odds are even better that they will be used as a disinfo outlet, where the disinfo is pumped through WL, completely unbeknownst to them.

I just couldn't see the government not seizing this oppurtunity to pump out disinformation through WL, if they aren't running the whole show to begin with and to put it quite frankly, there would be nothing to stop the government from pumping out disinformation through WL, again, if of course they aren't running it to begin with.

So, the chances are pretty high (in my opinion and according to my own observations) that WL is a disinformation campaign, run by TPTB and if it isn't, then the chances are even higher that they would seize this oppurtunity to use it as a disinformation outlet. Either way, it is ripe for disinformation.

It's important to note that it doesn't have to be all disinfo or all authentic and in fact, if you wanted to make it look authentic, they would be wise to either sprinkle it with truth or sprinkle it with lies. In fact, it would be completely stupid of whoever, to make it all disinfo without any truths.

It's also important to note that nothing so far has been discovered that will cause any kind of real backlash and I highly doubt that there will be anything. So, by sprinkling it with truth, or addign authentic documents, they are only gaining credibility, while negating any real consequences. Now, you have people saying "well of course it isn;t disinfo because there is some embarassing stuff in there and there is no way that the government would embarass itself". Mission accomplished without consequence.


In your 9/11 thread you dealt with facts in that they were witness testimony, and quotes from members of the 9/11 committee etc, all very good and a good thread. This one is in the realm of hearsay and supposition and does not quite gel with the fact that governments around the world are going nuts, and they still don't know all that was actually stolen on hard copy.


Which 9/11 thread is that? I have maybe 50 threads on 9/11, though all of them deal with the facts. This thread is completely different, hitting on two very different topics and certainly two very different issues, subjects, points and logic.

This thread here is a logic based thread. I'm not going over evidence (or cables) and pointing out which ones are true and which ones are false, because for one thing, that would be impossible and pointless, at least according to the point made in the OP. Instead, this thread is about the flaw in the system that is set up by WL and I go in to explain how either this flaw is likely to be exploited by the government or it could just simply be created by TPTB from the get go. The point is, we don't know, though what we do know, is that it could be easily exploited by the government, thus calling their whole operation into question. One has to wonder why Assange wouldn;t have built the system that wouldn't have such an obvious flaw in it.

Look, when I create my 9/11 threads, one of the main points that I always make, is that you shouldn;t reach a conclusion based on faith or based on someone's word, which is what is required to believe the official conspiracy theory. If you have doubts, then the criteria for truth has not been satisfied. The same case here, where the criteria for truth in this case has also not been satisified and in fact, there is a huge likelihood that disinformation is seeping into WL.

Am I claiming that I know for a fact that WL is spreading Disinfo? Absolutely not. That claim has not left my fingers. What I am claiming though, is that it is a real possibility and the potential is there. In fact, not only is the potential there, but the odds are in its favor.

Are you old enough to remember those ziplock commercials of a few years past? Remember how the lady would put pasta in the bag and then seal it just before putting it over her head? Yeah, she didn't want to do that, unless she was abolutely sure that it would hold and with the generic brand or "brand x", she wouldn't do it all, as there zip-lock had a flaw in it that had the potential to douse her in red sauce. In effect, it was dangerous for her to do that with a brand of bag that had a flaw in the zipper. Therefore, the ziplock company was telling you that "brand x's" bags were no good because you couldn't be sure that their locks would hold, thus you need to buy their brand of bags, where you could be sure.

WL has a huge flaw in their zipper that almost ensures disinformation would flow through it, thus defeating the purpose of their bag (data) all together. One has to ask why they would set up a system with such a flaw? Sure, it could be by accident but the flaw still exists and we can't be sure how trustworthy the information is. All of this is in spite of the very real possibility that WL itself is disinformation operation from the start. Again, either way, the chances are real good that disinformation is being dumped through WL, regardless of whether they are aware of this disinformation.

Lets just suppose that WL is on the up and up and they are completely trustworthy. If I was an elite in government, I would then come up with the bright idea (or not so much) to intentionally leak information to the organization, in an off-hand effort to mislead and keep people off the trail. Yes, disinformation is one of the most effective ways to keep people in the dark. If I did this, there would be little Assange or WL could do to root this disinfo out. They simply wouldn't know about it.

Now, to move away from that scenario, we then have the very real case that WL itself is a disinformation campaign that was created as such. Think about it for a moment... If you were a member of the elite in government or just simply a member of the elite and you were trying to hide things, you would be figuring out ways to spread disinformation. Maybe you feel like too many people are rooting up the right tree on those darned conspiracy websites. So, you figure out a way to effectively spread disinfo and you do so by having a credible front man, such as Assange. It's really no scret that many hackers are recruited by the government, particularly the intelligence agencies. You then create this elaborate front and to gain him some credibility, you start him off with a bang, such as allowing him to release a very emotional Iraq video showing misconduct.
That way, there aren't any real repurcussion for you or the rest of the elite, yet people still think it is damning enough to give your front man -and his operation- a little credibility. Then, once he has some credibility, you then procede to dump disinfo through his believable organization, while maintaining street cred by sprinkling it with truths, though so long as those truths don;t really get you in hot water and instead just superficially embarass you.

So again, I'm not making the claim that I know for a fact that WL is a disinfo campaign, only that it is a very real possibility, especially with all of the red flags pointed out in the OP. What's more, even if it isn't a disinfo campaign, it has an even better chance as being used as a disinfo outlet, with Assange being completely ignorant that what he has is disinfo. There is no way that he would know it if the government decided to leak disinfo through WL, due solely to the nature of how the operation is set up.

I have an unfortunate feeling that you are allowing your biases to interfere with the data in the OP, ultimately tainting the results in which you are concluding with, something that I also said would probably happen in the OP.

The only claim being made here, is that there is a very real chance of WL spreading disinfo, whether intentional or unintentional and which basically negates their whole purpose. How can you seek the truth from something with no way to confirm that truth, especially when the chance for disinfo is much greater than the chance for truth? I also hinted at how people are also putting too much faith in the organization, thinking that because WL is dumping apparent or supposed classified documents, that government secrets are now being revealed and transparency is now being forced, which just isn't. Far too many people are thinking that the government is now being fully exposed and it is ultimately turning them off to the idea that the government may be into some serious # that it shouldn;t be into, after all, if there are secrets in government, WL will sure expose it now. /sarcasm



--airspoon

Your words,"Which 9/11 thread is that? I have maybe 50 threads on 9/11, though all of them deal with the facts. This thread is completely different, hitting on two very different topics and certainly two very different issues, subjects, points and logic."

That would be the thread you abandoned just last night/US time, right after I introduced the release of the Wiki cables Wikileaks into it, and since you did not know that the cables had been released, and you have forgotten already? that does not wash with me, sorry mate your credibility in my eyes has just zeroed.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:40 PM
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I, for one, am looking forward to the time when there will be no need for any organisation such as Wikileaks because being told the truth will be the norm and not something extraordinarily rare. I doubt all this hiding, disinformation, spying etc. is taking place because they are interested in our well-being and our security. It's more like a way to serve their sinister purposes which certainly have nothing to do with the global welfare. We elect them, we give the money, we demand to know what the hell they are doing and why! It's our right!

In my opinion, if someone needs to hide the truth then perhaps he or she should re-examine his or her motives and actions. No one has the right to force anyone live in a reality created by lies.

Alexander



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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Your post is spot on OP. S+F

One issue I have, is that if WL had the ability to pose an actual national security threat, they would either be taken down, or majorly edited/censored (not just redacted stuff). Why would the US threaten them to not release it.. and also say that they aren't going to help censor it too? There is definitely some misinformation / things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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OP is wrong, 100%.

The ONLY reason Wikileaks exists is because the PRESS has failed to do its job. The BLAME is on the press and the corporations that own them. WARS have been happening because the press FAILS to do it's job.

This is all the fault of the press that has failed us. Every last drop.

Until the press is restored, it's time to open it up. Open it all up.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by Alexander1111
 


You are my new best friend



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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This story is taking off. I find it interesting how the timing of such nonsense occurs 2 weeks ago it was the TSA, a week ago it was serious Korea. This week it is wiki leaks. What is next week going to be? I think as far as real information that really matter to the people of the world is the Korean story, and perhaps the TSA story, but the wiki leaks story is well a savior for the US government PR when it comes to TSA claims, and what is happening in Korea, you know real stories.


The media is all up in arms about this story, as if it is so important. As far as truth in these leaks its pretty stupid, its mainly just quotes recorded from scribes transcripts etc. etc. I am just saying this wiki leaks story should be on the back page of the WORLD NEWS when it comes to severity of story's that can effect our lives.

Thats just my opinion..

edit on 29-11-2010 by Bicent76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:47 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


The real 2012 - December 21 2010 the day is marked-The Signs Are here
Quote

1.33-miners -ritual
2.69 days in the mine
3.69 Days after October 13= dec 21 2010
4.Phoenix - Darkness to light
5.Matthew 24:20
Revelations 6th seal
Lunar eclipse- dec 21 2010
Start of winter-dec 21 2010
Ww3-rumors of war
Rev 9:13-Then * the sixth angel blew his trumpet, and I heard a single voice coming from the * horns on the golden altar that is before God, saying to the sixth angel, the one holding * the trumpet, “Set free * the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates!” Then * the four angels who had been prepared for this * HOUR, DAY,* MONTH and YEAR were set free to kill * a third of humanity. The * number of soldiers on horseback was two hundred million; * I heard their number. Now * this is what the horses and their riders * looked like in my * vision: The riders had breastplates that were fiery red, * dark blue, * and sulfurous * yellow in color. * The * heads of the horses looked like lions’ heads, and fire, smoke, and sulfur * came out of their mouths. A third of humanity was killed by these three plagues, that is, * by the fire, the smoke, and the sulfur that came out of their mouths. For the power * of the horses resides * in their mouths and in their tails, because their tails are like snakes, having heads that inflict injuries. The rest of humanity, who had not been killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they did not stop worshiping demons and idols made * of gold, silver, * bronze, stone, and wood – idols that cannot see or hear or walk about. Furthermore, * they did not repent of their murders, of their magic spells, * of their sexual immorality, or of their stealing.



NET - Daniel 12
“At that time Michael, the great prince who watches over your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress unlike any other from the nation’s beginning up to that time. But at that time your own people, all those whose names are found written in the book, will escape.
Many of those who sleep in the dusty ground will awake – some to everlasting life, and others to shame and everlasting abhorrence.
But the wise will shine like the brightness of the heavenly expanse. And those bringing many to righteousness will be like the stars forever and ever.

“But you, Daniel, close up these words and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will dash about, ** and knowledge will increase.”


I, Daniel, watched as two others stood there, one on each side of the river. * One said to the man clothed in linen who was above the waters of the river, “When will the end of these wondrous events occur?” Then I heard the man clothed in linen who was over the waters of the river as he raised both his right and left hands to the sky * and made an oath by the one who lives forever: “It is for a time, times, and half a time. Then, when the power of the one who shatters * the holy people has been exhausted, all these things will be finished.”


I heard, but I did not understand. So I said, “Sir, * what will happen after these things?” He said, “Go, Daniel. For these matters are closed and sealed until the time of the end. Many will be purified, made clean, and refined, but the wicked will go on being wicked. None of the wicked will understand, though the wise will understand. From the time that the daily sacrifice is removed and the abomination that causes desolation is set in place, * there are 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits and attains to the 1,335 days. But you should go your way * until the end. * You will rest and then at the end of the days you will arise to receive * what you have been allotted.” *



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Wikileaks is Illuminati point blank.
Something is just fake about it all. If Wikileaks was a real anti government anti illuminati they'd probably
be dead by now, And the fact that it's gaining attention on yahoo is suspicious. I hope I'm wrong



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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I spent the night and morning reading cables...all...night....long.

I didn't see anything earth shattering but I did feel like I gained a good perspective.
I didn't see but one cable that I thought "Hmmm, this is going to ID someone here" not because of a name but because of information given that would make it easy to narrow down who the person was. IE Can't be that many national archery champions in Iran, that are ALSO blah blah, now, could there?

OK, but what I did see was a pattern of the State Department often acting like no more than traveling salesmen for our military industrial complex. Yes, we can take your order for 15 helicopters....yes, if you buy your upgrade planes and helicopters for us it should help to seal our relations...

I turn on the news and O'Reilly happened to be on and he's talking about scumball, sleezeball, sleezy website..wikileaks...and I'm like "DUDE, Julian Assange has 10x the intellect you do, just who was accused of having sex toys under the desk and harrassing those blonde lipgloss blondes you call analysts?"

Now, I've got my suspicions, mainly about Israel. I have not seen a lot of negatives about Israel here in these cables....and my first thought was maybe this is an Israeli op, and then I thought, maybe it is just a question of people IN the state dept. being very careful even about what they WRITE in cables about the Israeli nation for fear of being labeled antisemitic or hostile to Israel.

But so...my main concern would be that folks don't want to talk to the govt. for fear that our govt. can't keep secrets well, or that folks might have hurt feelings.

Ok, fine. That is my concern, but I also know that access control was really, really lax. Auditing must have been really, really lax. The US is the one that did that. It was obviously EASY.
So maybe America needs to take some medicine.

I am convinced that the US is strong enough to survive this, and if cards are played right, will come out of it better than ever.



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by hadriana
 


America will take her medicine as usual.
She will survive gossip mongering.

This is crap. All of it. Sure as the world exists



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by hadriana
 


You are exactly right. If all country's embassy's e-mail was posted, it would all look the same. We all know it. Time to stop acting like America is a whore.

This whole world is a brothel



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


Nicely done and you obviously put to "pen" what many have been saying all along about this cat.

It starts to show how he has made his money also. I was wondering about Soros. CIA seems more likely but could be both.


Beck mentioned something that has been floating around my head about JA that I couldn't quite make manifest.

(Yeah, Beck is a mixed bag. Good info and then he does something "out of character)

He has mentioned a few weeks back a speech by Van Jones concerning "Bottom up, Top Down, Inside out". I couldn't put my finger on it and have been wondering about this WL stuff.

(Sometimes the Hegelian Dialectic is right there but out of reach)

www.youtube.com...

(Its about 7 min in.)

They have orchestrated a cry from "good Americans/sheeple" to "GO GET THOSE WIKILEAKS BADDIES!"

Bottom up

The government will have the peoples "mandate" to REALLY start censoring things in ways we may not understand yet.

Top down

This is where it could get dicey and I'm not sure of the situation. My take is that all of this will EVENTUALLY wake up even the bleating "sheeple" to the point of serious problems for the government.

Inside out.

This could be what rips the facade off of what remains of our Representative Republic (sorry spoon-we're not democratic bro
). The ptb will have nothing to loose.

Its all incremental ism.

www.youtube.com...

Van Jones (sorry for the Beck sound track but Its all I could find - cut me some slack
)

You mix this with the immanent destruction of the world economy (except for the oligarchs), the Farm Bill / Codex Alimentarius that is being voted on tonight BTW, and whatever else they throw at us...it makes life rather "interesting" to say the least.

Oh yeah, nibiru and aliens coming down to probe us ( shout out to the disclosure crowd
)


sandf spoon! Nice work!



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 08:52 PM
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I’m giving Assange the benefit of the doubt at this point, hoping he’s taking on the role of a grandmaster, as he embarks on the opening moves of a multi-dimensional chess game.

If this is a genuine chess game with actual antagonists, it could be one of the most decisive in the history of humanity.

I’m praying that in the end, the winner will represent truth and the common man, not lies and the self-serving elite.




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