What does symbolism do to you?

reply to post by robertauthor


Thanks I'll check it out

What does symbolism do too you???....I guess it depends on ones perception of such, on the surfice a symbol might just be a symbol but if it were to be thrown together with magik or some type of mind control device or some kind of occult meaning then it's different...is a symbol just a symbol depends who you ask, i would say no there's meaning behind some of it but deciphering who or what has a agenda through it again depends on ones perception.

Music Clip fun post...

www.onetruemedia.com...

reply to post by network dude


I must admit I don't know enough about Matt Groenig to discuss it well, but I will tell you how I think it will affect me.

A few years ago (5?, 6?) My mom told me that Dad was invited to a local social club. She was/is so proud of him. She, like my dad, are every sunday roman catholics. At the time I thought "hey cool, my dad is in my hometown 'clique' now, good for him. I guess he is really doing good with his small business"

A few years ago I started "personal research". I do not know it all, and I do not have everything right, but I have seen certain levels of possibilities. My entire region, and my regions entire industry is inundated with the symbology I am talking about. It is in all the local govt logo's too. So what do I do?...........I will just accept it for now.

But there are some things I can control. I now know what kind of "club" my dad is in. His company logo now has a new addition "X years quality service" or something like that with what?, of course, ancient symbols added behind the words.

My mom has hinted that I have a decision to make in the future. To come back and take over my dads small business, or to keep doing what I'm doing now. (I have my own independant thing going on here where I live, but his business is doing well) What I'm getting at is if I get involved back in my home town I'll probably be approached. Now there are certain "things" I've learned over time. I don't want to say "yes" to an oath that I am sure to understand in a different way..................that would be embarassing to say the least.

So it effects me that way. I really don't want to have to deal with the whole club thing in the future. I don't even know how to approach my dad if it ever came to that.

Symbols can be used as warnings, they can be used as signs of hope, they can be used as threats, they can be left as clues. There's all sorts of reasons and it depends on the symbol. Some symbols don't mean anything at all and are just there because someone thought they looked cool or something. If a symbol invokes a lot of curiosity because it appears ominous or seems suspiciously strategic in it's placement... a person can become rather obsessed with trying to figure out what it means and your mind's first thought when approached by something unknown is often to first investigate the possibility of danger. It's connected to the survival instinct so some people will automatically start assuming that something they don't understand but feel they are meant to be curious about is something that is not good for them.

To be honest Dude. There is a confliction here.

Firstly, as I was once of the same mindset, that the symbolism shtick is much of a muchness and that the idea of it was absurd. So I can see how one doesant believe it if they havent looked long enough.

However, you are a Freemason.

So how is it you dont understand the Hermetic construction of sigils and the purpose of symbolism? As far as I can see Freemasonry is all over this type of thing.

Sigils work like this. You take a sentence that describes your intent ( if you are sh*t hot you might have created your own words and filled them with intent by meditation) . Then you deconstruct by means of sacred geometry until it looks like a symbol that is generally attractive to the eye and add layers of your own ritual and symbolism and link it to colours, emotions or most importanly sounds. Then put the symbol in carving etc... into your shrine or whatever. Now you have to get enough attention to it and the more you give the more energy it has. If one person believes your sigil is unlucky then it might not manifest your desires but if a million people use it every day it is a curse word and it will eminate an energy that influences the perception of those in its vicinity.

The process is applicable to pictograms and images like the all seeing eye, the pillars etc... or words/sounds.

As for movies etc... sure you can say the checkerboard motif is a common design however if it is seen relative to keys, altered states of consciousness, spirits, water, time travel, sexuality and other related symbolism numerous times in Hollywood movies (they used to make magic wands out of that I think) then you have to take notice.

The symbols almost have consciousness of their own they crop up so much, you dig?

But it means nothing until its in correct perspective, what does the checkerboard floor have to do with altered states? It is not just descriptive of the challenges of life, that is but a layer of the symbolism. It is like the tesseract in its abilty to describe the nature of alternate dimensions on the subconscious level and herin lies the problem. It only can effect you on the subconscious level, if you know about it you are free of its grasp although you will find it harder to enjoy most mainstream media as the amount of symbolism is distracting.

Even if you ignore these ideas, which a Freemason should find hard to do you must at least wonder about the sheer volume and think that it is at least used as some form of communication for those initated into the esoteric aspects.

Medeatrix, media tricks, the Matrix. Magicians world of illusion. The Maya.

Here's my take on it.

1. I've heard stories of adults refusing to join the Masons or the Eastern Star because they were freaked out by the symbols. Repeatedly showing symbols to kids grooms them. Even if the symbols are used to represent some sort of evil character, the unconscious mind does not make these kinds of judgments. Freemasons say that the symbols are appropriate for kids because they are silly or playful.

2. Showing your secrets in open draws magical energy to you. David Blaine does not need to levitate or sleep in an ice box, but he does so anyway, because it always freaks people out.

3. Showing your secrets in open lets other members know that "the enterprise is a success," and gives dissenters a sense of despair. If you're diabetic and you keep seeing McDonald's ads, then eventually you will experience a mental break-down, unless you arm yourself psychologically. When most people express their concern about Freemasonry, they are told to shut up because the Masons gave their kid a free winter coat, or a week's supply of ramen noodles. Eventually, they experience cognitive dissonance. Some even capitulate and become Masonry supporters.

reply to post by Majestic23


in masonry we use symbolism to teach. Each symbol has a meaning to us in that particular degree. It may change, but only for the context that it's being used for at that time. Me showing a non mason who never studied our symbols and meanings a plumb would not know what significance it has to us, nor would they care. Where as a mason might tell you that it reminds us walk uprightly in our path about life. My reason for asking in this thread is that people seem to automatically think that since there is some hidden symbol in a movie or cartoon, that it's automatically evil, or that it can somehow magically harm them. While I do believe in the power of symbols to teach and interpret, I don't believe in any visual aid's ability to harm or do anything other than sit there. I don't believe in that kind of magic. Much like David Blane, magic is an illusion.

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


so we are subliminally trying to gain membership? Interesting concept, but if true, epic fail.

I have yet to have a zombie come to me and ask for a petition. Now if I could program people to want to buy me a been when I say a certain catch phrase, that would be s useful tool.

reply to post by Khaaaaaan!!


I guess it would depend on what group your dad joined. If it's Knight of Columbus, then it's a harmless organization that attempts to help it's charitable causes and uses similar teaching methods as masonry. If your dad joined masonry, he is probably in hot water with the church and that could be a problem.

We don't solicit membership for a very important reason. If you come to us of your own free will, then you are already interested in what we have to offer. The hardest part is over. If we have to drag you in, then only a small percentage will be truly interested in what we offer. The rest will fade away. Don't join anything because you feel like you have to. If your heart isn't in it, it will be nothing but a waste of your time and everyone involved. (IMHO)

I don't know if it's magic that is the issue. It's about the intent... it's about the person who placed the symbol. People who see it and don't understand see it as a something secret and they want to know what it is in order to eliminate the placer of the symbol as an actual threat to them.

I used to wear a lot of symbols in school because i was a little teenybopper metalhead and people (often rude people) would ask me what they mean and say things like "is that supposed to be magic or something?"
What they were really trying to find out is why I was wearing them in relation to who, if anyone, i thought of as enemies... or how it related to how I live my life. For example, if I wore symbols because I thought if I had sex with 6 different guys out in the woods while praying to some dark ancient goddess of destruction and then wore a symbol as obedience to dark forces... what it really boils down to is whether or not I'm a whore who defiling herself in the woods with 6 different guys... and they want to know these things so they can go report me. Or if I wear symbols of evil because I sit around wishing I had dark powers (not that this doesn't seem handy sometimes in the mind of a middle schooler) but that it suggests that one day I get so sick of waiting for my dark powers to kick in, that I go ahead and shoot up the school... because the symbol suggests to them that i am full of anger.

The magic is in the way it looks to the eye. the magic is within the mind of the person who placed it their because they have a pretty good idea that they can generate a symbol to get reactions... and it's true.

The fear is in not being able to understand the hidden intention.
It's more about intent of actual harm of those outside the group using symbols than any magic it contains.
Magic in symbols is a movie cliche.

reply to post by network dude


OK, gotcha.............................(my heart is screaming it doesn't want to do it)

I'll just do what I have to do to. follow my heart.....................

Then how do explain things like this.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How about Inception, The Matrix....

You dont see masonic symbolism in these.

How about Imaginarium, or Alice in Wonderland?

Checkerboard, pillars, altered states, keys, sigils.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

so we are subliminally trying to gain membership? Interesting concept, but if true, epic fail.

I have yet to have a zombie come to me and ask for a petition. Now if I could program people to want to buy me a been when I say a certain catch phrase, that would be s useful tool.

No, that's taking the extreme opposite, and taking what I've said out of context.

What I said is that it quiets dissent, although the Masons do cry about how they are desperate for new members.

reply to post by ChaosMagician


People aren't just looking to report one another, they need "something to talk about," especially in small towns. They need to get a life, but at the same time someone wearing pentagrams and the like shouldn't be stirring up trouble.

I'm sure those people who would judge someone in that situation would rather think of the person as a thumb-waving slut than a Satanist. People fear Satanism, and that fear has been used throughout history to gain power and influence. After a while it gets old and people want to shut it down before yet another Satanist makes a backroom deal.

Originally posted by Majestic23
What does the checkerboard floor have to do with altered states? It is not just descriptive of the challenges of life, that is but a layer of the symbolism. It is like the tesseract in its abilty to describe the nature of alternate dimensions on the subconscious level and herin lies the problem. It only can effect you on the subconscious level, if you know about it you are free of its grasp although you will find it harder to enjoy most mainstream media as the amount of symbolism is distracting.

At a time before there was psychedelic drugs and transcedental meditation, the checkerboard pattern, when viewed at a certain perspective, literally created an altered state of consciousness in a Mason who had just finished circling the lodge wearing a blindfold. That's why you don't see that pattern from a perfect top-down perspective in the movies.

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by Khaaaaaan!!

 

I guess it would depend on what group your dad joined. If it's Knight of Columbus, then it's a harmless organization that attempts to help it's charitable causes and uses similar teaching methods as masonry. If your dad joined masonry, he is probably in hot water with the church and that could be a problem.

The Knights of Columbus believe in the same secrecy and "revealed truth" as the Freemasons, which Christianity strictly teaches against.

We don't solicit membership for a very important reason. If you come to us of your own free will, then you are already interested in what we have to offer. The hardest part is over. If we have to drag you in, then only a small percentage will be truly interested in what we offer. The rest will fade away. Don't join anything because you feel like you have to. If your heart isn't in it, it will be nothing but a waste of your time and everyone involved. (IMHO)

That is not true.
Masons tend to recruit their sons, and mock them when they don't, usually by saying that they are not "real men." After all, little Timmy has to join and participate in fundraising so that grandpa can continue to collect his Masonic pension.
The Masons also recruit successful professionals who haven't yet joined. They don't ask outright, but they talk about Freemasonry and about how it's an opportunity to "give back" (engage in charity work).

reply to post by Majestic23


Thank you Majestic23. You said what I was about to much better than I could.

Look Network Dude, your original question is disingenuous and you know it. You just stated my point:

Originally posted by network dude
in masonry we use symbolism to teach. Each symbol has a meaning to us in that particular degree. It may change, but only for the context that it's being used for at that time..

First of all, a side note: I don't think anything bad about masons, and have been contemplating approaching.

That said, I am reminded of an episode of the X-Files where Fox tells Deep-Throat. "I'm just wondering which lie to believe"

As you just said... the lie, or story in masonry... is different at every level of the craft. I am not in any way worried about the levels that are commonly known about. It is the alleged higher levels that are rumored to exist. And yes, all I know of are rumors and speculation at this point.

Hermetically using symbols to influence people is basically control without informed consent. I think is either disingenuous or dangerous naive to believe that these symbols are not purposefully put there and crafted by a cabal rather than an individual director.

I have been studying symbolism and I now realize I live in a completely different world than I used to think I lived in. Just driving down any local strip in America I am inundated with a unified message. I see the Venus symbol at Shell and understand the colors. I could go on ad infinitum on each and every store sign. None of the colors or symbols and signs were chosen at random.

While the average Joe is not consciously aware, these symbols speak on a gestalt level to their subconscious. It is constantly reinforced no matter where they drive or what channel they watch or website they goto.

I believe in bloodline memories and in reincarnation. I think this is much older and much deeper than most would dare explore. Priesthoods and mystic societies have used these same symbols through the millennia and I have been tracing them back and following the interconnections.

I am fascinated by the world that is unfolding and am intensely curious.

For right now I am studying the craft from without because I do not want to be indentured with oaths.

reply to post by Majestic23


as I said, there may indeed be masonic, celtic, religious, or other symbolism in all kinds of places. But what does that mean/prove? If I made something that everyone would see, I might hide a masonic symbol in it. Not because I think I need to control anyones mind, but because I am a Freemason. If I was a devout Christian, I might put a cross in it. I don't get why it's anything other than a poke to have those things there. If there was some secret treasure and some symbols pointed to some clue like in the movies, then perhaps there is something more, but still not anything evil. Do you believe in magic?

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
That is not true.
Masons tend to recruit their sons, and mock them when they don't, usually by saying that they are not "real men." After all, little Timmy has to join and participate in fundraising so that grandpa can continue to collect his Masonic pension.

while I have no idea of what you have been through in life, I can tell you that this is not the way we should act or believe. Joining should always be the choice of the individual. I hope my son joins, but for no other reason than his personal growth. If he choses not to join, I will never love him any less or attempt to make him fell any less of a man. There are many ways to get where we hope to be. As long as we try, we are on the right path.