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The use of agent provovoteurs on ATS

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posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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One such agent was Doc Velocity, now banned. He was outed right here on ATS as being a Fed working in internet disinformation. The funniest part is, his title was "Disinformation Specialist".


I prefer using "disinformation operative" myself.


But really, if you have to label people who disagree with you "government agent", you may need to rethink your position.




posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 


...yeah, well, call me stubborn but i dont believe it...


...doc was WAY too emotional to be an undercover anything - and - if he did actually state that he was working for the feds as a snoop, it doesnt mean he was telling the truth...

...btw, he's on another site claiming that he was banned from ats for promoting his book... its easy to find that site - just google his screamname...



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi

One such agent was Doc Velocity, now banned. He was outed right here on ATS as being a Fed working in internet disinformation. The funniest part is, his title was "Disinformation Specialist".


I prefer using "disinformation operative" myself.


But really, if you have to label people who disagree with you "government agent", you may need to rethink your position.


Look guys, believe me or not. Doc was on my "Friends" list (a very short list...meaning i don't add many people to it). We didn't disagree. But i saw what happened. Others did, too. I provide you some information...believe it or not.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Look up Doc Velocity. He made a thread that I think got deleted. It was about how this church was screwing over its congregation. By the time it was all said and done, turns out the story was a hoax and he was outed as being on a special operations team meant to subvert internet opinion.


I sort of remember that thread - never really followed it.

FWIW, there was a government project that used to use retired spec-op operators who were bored and farting around on the net. It was a volunteer thing. You signed up, got a list of boards you were supposed to noodle around on and check out what was being posted. If you spotted something oddball yet relevant (that's where the use of operators came in, as a relevancy filter) you flagged it upstairs for further analysis.

Simply being contentious or whatnot didn't make the grade, the material had to be overtly screwy, let's say for example you were on some Arab language board and some thread started where it went into detailed plans for bulk manufacture of RDX, and it went from "I read on Wikipedia" to "Here are the detailed plans for a reaction vessel with thermal controls so you can get the right proportions of HDX to RDX" then up it went.

It was actually spectacularly successful - quite a number of arrests were made compared to the crappy little budget expended, especially since they had two guys doing the data analysis and all the worker bees were free.

But other than that, special operations doesn't get into posting crap about church problems on ATS.

They DO run data mining operations. Every spec ops branch has their own, too, although it just doesn't seem very cost effective to me to have the spec ops of every military branch running two or three really expensive data miners. IMHO that ought to be aggregated under DIA running one really jam-up installation out of BAFB. But no, I think everyone except the Coast Guard has at least two, some have more, and I'm not sure about the Coast Guard.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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What exactly would an "agent provocateur" be on a forum, anyway?

Is that a fancy new name for someone who disagrees with you? The upscale version of calling them 'fascist' over on Kos?

In a literal sense, it would seem to require someone intentionally leading you into doing something unlawful. Let's say, if I told you how to sneak onto the Nellis test area, knowing it was a trap set up specifically to catch ATS members who might try it.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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Liars for Hire.

I think we experience a lot of waste of resources because people want to invest time and money into such things... in all walks of life, in many different fields of interest. I think although it can make results happen, it generally counter productive because it makes plenty of unwanted things happen as well. It's counter-intuitive in a working system and quite frankly, I would rather have my thoughts read with new technology then have to put up with the annoyance of these types of things if my personal circumstances dictated such a scenario.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam
What exactly would an "agent provocateur" be on a forum, anyway?

Is that a fancy new name for someone who disagrees with you? The upscale version of calling them 'fascist' over on Kos?

In a literal sense, it would seem to require someone intentionally leading you into doing something unlawful. Let's say, if I told you how to sneak onto the Nellis test area, knowing it was a trap set up specifically to catch ATS members who might try it.



it's a troll... who knows what all reasons people have for trolling but everyone knows that on the internet, trolling is rampant. Most of them don't even need a reason except to incite disorder so that they can laugh about it. I knew a guy in real life... I mean I actually witnessed him doing this on various occasions. he would start drinking and to get a laugh in his miserable little mind, would go through a set of ideas to incite flame wars and get others banned on forums. He actually had pages that he thought were the funniest most clever thing... like "all you need to know about being a troll"... i'm serious. Attention whores are the worlds worst at it. The lonely apparantly have nothing better to do with their time.

My previous post was to point out that people also use these tactics on deeper levels... although as far as people doing this here, god only knows why there would be reasons to do these things. I could just start guessing but none of it's able to be proven so why even get into it? It could be happening though for various reasons, who the hell knows. it could be something as simple as book sales. it could be personal issues with specific members.. the list could go on and on and on.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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You know...another detail I left out about Doc Velocity....he was pegged in a document discussing extremism in America on web forums.

Boondock Saint was also fingered in the same page. Not saying anything about boondock...but for Doc Velocity, would it not be the role of an agent provocateur to get "caught" saying some stuff on a forum that then is quoted in a report meant to push fascism in forums?



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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Ahhh....here is the thread on the ADL "hit piece".

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by ChaosMagician It could be happening though for various reasons, who the hell knows. it could be something as simple as book sales. it could be personal issues with specific members.. the list could go on and on and on.


Sounds more like just trolling then, I don't see the point of calling them provocateurs.

OTOH, on ATS it's pretty much stock to call anyone who points out holes in your data or reasoning a disinfo agent. On some forums more than others.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Ahhh....here is the thread on the ADL "hit piece".

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Well, poo. I feel left out.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by ChaosMagician It could be happening though for various reasons, who the hell knows. it could be something as simple as book sales. it could be personal issues with specific members.. the list could go on and on and on.


Sounds more like just trolling then, I don't see the point of calling them provocateurs.

OTOH, on ATS it's pretty much stock to call anyone who points out holes in your data or reasoning a disinfo agent. On some forums more than others.



Mere disagreement is never a true symptom of trolling. There many other tell-tale signs.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:54 PM
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reply to post by ChaosMagician
 



Mere disagreement is never a true symptom of trolling. There many other tell-tale signs.


I've been called a government agent / troll along with some other silly names for disagreeing



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by ChaosMagician
 



Mere disagreement is never a true symptom of trolling. There many other tell-tale signs.


I've been called a government agent / troll along with some other silly names for disagreeing



I believe you, but disagreements themselves are not the hallmark, nor the purpose, nor the actual correct definition of a troll. I'm just pointing that out for clarification for anyone who reads this thread and thinks that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

A troll attempts to get reactions and uses various ways to take attention off the fact that any trolling is even taking place by making it seem preposterous.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


But had the agents been allowed more freedom in their efforts, they would probably be able to form more effective disinformation, propaganda, character assassinations, deflections or distractions.


You seem to be confusing disinformation with the use of agents provocateurs.

The first seeks to confuse and dissuade investigation or motivation.
The second, and the subject of this thread, is to act as an enthusiast, encouraging more and stronger action.

The whole point of the a-p is to incite the targets into illegal conduct, thus warranting formal intervention.

No doubt, some of the recent DHS seizures were likely the result of an a-p pushing an innocent site owner to cross the line into something that would justify federal intervention.

Before you start choosing "victims" to unmask, you should be better able to know who/what you are looking for.

Deny ignorance.

jw



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:07 PM
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reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan
 

I certainly found Doc Velocity's posts when I first joined strange.
In one of his final threads (not sure, perhaps final) people found several holes in his church story.
He was also advertising a book that he wrote without permission.
Perhaps he was just eccentric, but it will suffice to say that when one is asked to post for somebody it leaves a rather strange feeling.
Oh well, I suppose some people also just have a beer too many occasionally and unwittingly do silly things.
Perhaps some agents go into retirement and all that remains is to go on conspiracy sites where they try to run the show and think they can play games.
Not sure, but got that feeling.

edit on 28-11-2010 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by ripcontrol
 



I came to the conclusion a long time ago that the internet was a corrupt and dangerous place, a breeding ground for those wishing to push an agenda, create confusion, and instill hatred.

but you can also sell or buy stuff on EBay.


Plus, it has lots of porn, lol.

Seriously, I was 38 years old before I ever saw the internet. Prior to that, I had no concept of what to expect.

Ten years later, I'm firmly convinced that no medium ever devised by humankind has had the potential to be the perfect tool for propaganda that the net has. People actually worry about television? I have 120 channels and can watch TVland or ION , for instance, till hell freezes over pretty much agenda/propaganda-free---but as soon as one fires up the old PC, it is a constant barrage of half-informed pop cultural BS , pseudo science, youtube 'evidence' and wikipedia 'facts'.

As for these secret agents,they logically couldn't pose a greater threat than the average bored college kid or out of work trucker with an opinion and an audience anyhow IF we would all try to develop a degree of critical thinking and actually pay attention to what we see or read online.

My two cents.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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while you all may believe one way or the other about "agents', I am sure that if there were or are any here my guess is that they have already hacked into ATS server and found out who you all are.And no server is so secure that it cannot be broken into,that fact I am sure of. So while you all spout off about freedom of speech and that stuff they may be sitting outside of your mom's house watching and tracking what you do.

Just my 2 cents!



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by ripcontrol
I have a question for the owners of the site...

It is in the spirit of the thread...

Have you thought of having the sites attorney send a FOIA request to the DoHS, and additional to FBI, CIA, and NSA... (Do Not forget NRO)

Ask for
Investigations into ATS

Communications monitoring

Agents on the site...


Make sure each is separated as individual then one for group


You are assuming that these agents provocateurs are in fact agents. They could very well be just informants trolling for information-not necessary just a person, but a group of people with similar beliefs as the host group.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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I believe this may be a case of severe paranoia. Some may think there are "agents" on this web site, therefore, they'll point someone out and accuse them of being such a thing if they disagree with an opinion or ideology.

I wouldn't doubt this site was or is still monitored by some kind of authorities, but really, no one's going to sign up to spread disinformation.

We have Republicans for that.



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