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Chinese government to make 'urgent' announcement

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posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Americans will support their killings of innocent civilians. Like in the Apache stunt in Iraq for instance, that is just one of many many incidents. Bombing Iraqi schools and hotels among others. But if SK puts their artillery among civilians and civilians get killed. All hell breaks loose among Americans. Suddenly it becomes a bloody crime?

What this is all about is who is committing the crime. Killing civilians are accepted among Americans, but only they are allowed to justify it.




posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 



I still stand by that..China do have anti ship missiles that really worry the US


It's our job to be 'worried' about every system we don't know a whole lot about. However, I have my reservations about the projected effectiveness of the Chinese missile systems. In all likelihood, they utilize a variety of modernized soviet-era clones and would still be vulnerable to ECM.


Well I don't know what you stand by because you went from "decimate China proper" to
"disable a sizeable amount of China's combat,etc"
That's one huge difference considering you "stand by" your original statement..
So which is it????


Do you have any clue what it would do to China if Beijing went without power for more than 72 hours after a successful missile or aircraft strike on power generation and distribution systems?

Disabling those strategic resources does serious damage to a country's ability to push a war effort. Rather than attacking ships and soldiers - you strike at who/what commands those units and you shut down the factories that keep them fed and supplied. With something like power - a huge necessity for modern high-density urbanization, going without it will lead to social unrest and an entire socio-economic collapse, something China is not in a position to combat (they have trouble with the jobless, hungry, and rioting as is).


Ohh and BTW, the US have been left scratching their heads on more than one occassion in friendly war games, wondering how their defences were beaten..


I would like to see your sources. Not that I don't believe this to have happened - I am sure it has. However, for you to have the entire context of material classified as Top Secret, you've got to have some serious connections.

reply to post by TheOracle
 



Sure a carrier has a great damage potential. But reading you I feel that you believe the Chinese are completely defenceless and 'won't know what hit them' until all their key infrastructures are gone. Please


Oh, they'll know what hit them. They simply won't be able to do anything about it. The AEGIS and AEGIS II systems installed on all U.S. destroyers and cruisers allows the ship to fight completely autonomously. The average store in the VLS units allows simultaneous striking of air, land, and sea threats - radar installations would be the first to be taken out by TLAMs in preparation for strikes launched from the carrier. Power generation and substation would be next on the list. China has no real countermeasures to cruise missiles other than interceptors - and with the number of U.S. cruisers and destroyers sitting off their coast at any given time, there's no practical way to physically intercept that many missiles.

Nearby surface targets will be taken down through attrition - most of their missiles are already capable of being casually defeated by ECM and some can even be returned to source - why waste the missile when they provide it?


The moment one gets too close and something suspect is launched towards China, they will throw everything they have. Included subs that the US navy can't even detect, the largest airforce on this planet and all the carrier killers missiles they are proud of.


Taking down a carrier with the Kilo and Akula class subs in China's possession would take a lot of time to coordinate and orchestrate - something the Kilo doesn't have the luxury of, being a diesel sub.

Attrition against a carrier battle group in terms of aircraft would not go well for the Chinese. They would waste valuable resources that they would need to solidify their sphere of influence. AEGIS and Hawkeye systems datalink with the launch aircraft and Aim-120s directly to provide mid-course updates. This gives a "fire and run like hell" ability to U.S. forces that the Chinese simply do not have. Anything China threw at the carrier group would face a wall of air and sea launched missiles fired from targets that are outside of effective range.

The "carrier-killer" missiles are a complete unknown. AEGIS II systems certainly have the potential to be able to engage such high-velocity targets at range - but the terminal guidance systems in use by that missile have got to be very sophisticated to locate the target after it has moved since firing, and adjust the missile's trajectory at such a velocity to intercept the target. Further - the newer missile-based point-defense system on the carriers would be capable of intercepting that missile. Actually - the vulcan-based CIWS would have a fairly decent chance, as well - a missile moving at that speed would follow a pretty flat trajectory that isn't going to change much - and CIWS puts a wall of lead there for the missile to run into.

Although ECM should not be under-estimated. We can focus a radar down into a very narrow beam and fry the internal systems of almost any missile that doesn't have some serious EM shielding. The same can be done for aircraft - to the point it would be lethal to the pilot at certain ranges.


A carrier is a big glass cannon, a prime target sitting duck. If China and the US are ever at war, they will be taken out first, you can be sure of it.


But that is not exactly what a carrier battle group is. The entire carrier battle group is networked - if the cruiser can track you, a U.S. warplane can fire on you and nail you. You don't just get to fight the carrier - you have to fight the whole battle group. The battle group extends up to a hundred miles from the carrier, itself - you are well within the engagement envelope of the entire battle group before you can put the carrier on your search radar.


I never spoke about the navy but the Chinese adopted the 'carrier killing doctrine' and managed to pop out in the middle of US war games with their subs, undetected. I'm too lazy to look for more links for people who have their conceptions as facts and don't even bother verifying them.


One sub, surfacing.

There's a considerable difference when a sub is actually flooding tubes in preparation for an attack.

Flooding their tubes would result in a snapshot on that vector and estimated depth and result in the carrier flanking it out of range while deploying towed countermeasures. This is not the place to have a detailed conversation and explanation of ASW tactics - but to put it bluntly, the only way China would stand a chance in hell is if they were to strike preemptively using a 'swarm' of submarines lying in wait for the carrier battle group.

They may be able to take out the entire battle group - but they will not be able to do so before that battle group inflicts some serious damage that China will have to focus on fixing before pushing its influence. Then it will have two or three carrier battle groups moving, and ground forces pushing up through Korea to deal with.

This, is, of course, presuming China attempts to declare war and attack a carrier battle group and endanger South Korean and Taiwanese sovereignty. This is not intended to be a scenario where the battle group steams all Leroy Jenkins style. Though I suppose I should have made that far more clear in my original assessment - it seemed that people were worried about what would happen if China were to try and start something over this exercise - and I responded to that particular concern. The battle group would come under attack and go down while taking out every priority strategic target it possibly could. I have no doubts China would eventually destroy the battle group - but not without suffering damage that they will have to take time to recover from.

A naval battle does not play on China's strengths. China wants a war where they can take their unemployed and hungry population, hand them a rifle, and storm someone's border (like India) so that they will stop rioting and burdening the system. The U.S. precision warfare strategy turns the power off while taking as few civilian lives as possible - creating more hungry people who don't know where their next meal is going to come from who are going to focus their anger on the government due to its provocation and a lack of civilian casualties to redirect their anger into a war-fighting mentality.

Then there is also the India factor - India has been in a cold war with China for quite some time. In the event hostilities were to break out between China and the U.S. - India would not be likely to sit idly by - and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. That completely throws the above scenario out of whack - as China would likely suddenly find themselves involved with a ground war on the west with a combined U.S. and Indian task force sitting off their coast.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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www.abc.net.au...

South Korean president to address nation
By correspondent Stephen McDonell in Incheon

South Korea's besieged president will address his country in the coming hours as tensions on the Korean peninsula remain high.

waiting to hear what is said but addressing the country is an ominous sign in anyones language
edit on 28-11-2010 by 12voltz because: of the war pigs



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Ezzedeen
reply to post by phatpackage
 


You are pure sheeple if you believe that B.S. Just like Bush when he said Al Qeada was envious of Americans freedoms.
The world does NOT envy the US, they're sick of US meddling in their business.


Wow eh? Sheeple? thats pretty insulting maybe you should go put some more tin foil on your head & go & stock up on some supplies. The truth is NK terrorise & holds it's own people to ransom by starving them & only providing a decent living if you join the military. It than stands over Japan & SK. Real nice mob. If you want to defend them go live there! Remember you started with the insults!



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by SeventhSeal
 





What freedoms have we lost? I can sit here and call Obama a radical leftist SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST/FASCIST/NAZI...But he's not any of those.
I can still purchase a gun.
I can watch pornography in my state.
I can go to the local gay bathhouse and have myself some fun.
I can go to the strip club and get a lap dance.
I have health insurance.
There are more pot shops in LA than there are Starbucks.
I can vote.
I can drink up a storm.
I can smoke up a storm.
I can sign up to the military if I want to...no one is forced to (yet).
The list goes on.

so touchingly, i'm gonna cry of that perfect picture
how about to get good education?



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by 12voltz
 


If nothing has happened so far. Nothing will happen at all. In a few days ATS will be focusing on Iran.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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It was mentioned as to "what rights we've lost" in the US of A?

The (anti) Patriot Act was a good start. Wire taps anyone?

How about the MIAC REPORT? God forbid you have a cross thing to say about the PTB or even be a concerned citizen.

www.scribd.com...

They "promise" security but the only ones getting hassled are WE THE PEOPLE! The borders are wide open but they stick their fingers up our collective butt at airports! Yeah. Thats good sense!

I heard some stupid female with an infant on the radio yesterday saying that she thought the pat down was too much for her and the baby so SHE CHOSE TO GET RADIATED!!!! Too damn bad she chose to breed!

PEOPLE

ARE

STUPID!

freakin chattle!



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by SarK0Y
 


LoL - If he meet a cop his luck will change.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Originally posted by Cobra.EXE
reply to post by SeventhSeal
 




hah, youre kidding right? what freedoms arent we losing???


Can you give me some that we have lost since Obama became president? He kept the Patriot Act in place which is the only Drastic situation I can think of. Other than that, not too sure what freedoms you speak of...so please...enlighten us here at AboveTopSecret.com...

What freedoms have we lost?

I can sit here and call Obama a radical leftist SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST/FASCIST/NAZI...But he's not any of those.

I can still purchase a gun.

I can watch pornography in my state.

I can go to the local gay bathhouse and have myself some fun.

I can go to the strip club and get a lap dance.

I have health insurance.

There are more pot shops in LA than there are Starbucks.

I can vote.

I can drink up a storm.

I can smoke up a storm.

I can sign up to the military if I want to...no one is forced to (yet).

The list goes on.

So please, enlighten us...what freedoms are we losing?

You want to discuss the loss of freedoms? Try living in North Korea. Let us know how it goes, thanks.
edit on 28-11-2010 by SeventhSeal because: (no reason given)


keep'em fat, stupid and lazy! Thats what the PTB wants! Youre such a good prole.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by 12voltz
 


If nothing has happened so far. Nothing will happen at all. In a few days ATS will be focusing on Iran.



Yep. Gotta agree with you on that one.

It would have happened already



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by spy66
 


Thats like saying because there is no earthquake today ,there will never be one.Yes Iran will be back in the headline because ,war is contagious.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by 12voltz
reply to post by spy66
 


Thats like saying because there is no earthquake today ,there will never be one.Yes Iran will be back in the headline because ,war is contagious.


Don't forget the new wikileaks cables show how north korea has been giving Iran missiles 19 for sure we know of.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Sly1one
 


All murder is murder all the same. if you want to go with that, then Russia China still holds the trump card for most amount of people killed by their governments.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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www.reuters.com...

Looks like they might be about to accept the peace talks again. I guess cooler heads are out on top in this debacle.

Tensions defusing, no war!



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by MadDogtheHunter
 


and should we trust the US who killed 1 1/2 million civilians in the 1st korean war?

idoubt kim jong will forget that.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Thats good news. But i dont think its the end of it. South Korea seems very angry and i think they think they deserve retribution for the attack.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 



Disabling those strategic resources does serious damage to a country's ability to push a war effort. Rather than attacking ships and soldiers - you strike at who/what commands those units and you shut down the factories that keep them fed and supplied. With something like power - a huge necessity for modern high-density urbanization, going without it will lead to social unrest and an entire socio-economic collapse, something China is not in a position to combat (they have trouble with the jobless, hungry, and rioting as is).

you're right, my friend, China has less powerful weapon than USA, but that fact will force'em to nuke with full Power & this moment is serious problem for all. + hard strikes to China's industrial objects will provide dreadful environmental consequences for region, in particular Russia's Areas, it may be most reason of Russia to say own "W" versus USA, then Nothing will help USA, even (d)uck & cover exercises.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by Cobra.EXE

I can sit here and call Obama a radical leftist SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST/FASCIST/NAZI...But he's not any of those.


Uhhh regardless if he is or if he isn't, if the system can cross reference those statements to who you are, then you are on a list, congrats! A system that does that should creep any sane person the # out.


I can still purchase a gun.


Depends, some guns you cannot purchase. How about new york, is it legal to purchase a gun without having to go through all sorts of checks to determine if you get your constitutional rights (though I believe regulations are quite tight in new york). Here in canada you need a license to get one. In some places you have to get your guns registered. Either way I personally believe true freedom is unregistered and unlicensed -- it's none of the systems business how much damned firepower we the people have. The answer to that should always be "enough to keep the damned system in line".


I can watch pornography in my state.


Wow that's awesome! do you live in idaho or something?


I can go to the local gay bathhouse and have myself some fun.


Yay that's pathetic and disgusting. In gay-land it doesn't take much to get laid, just ask for it. Take two or three home if you like, it's easy enough to do. Going to a bathhouse for random sex with ugly old fat dudes sounds nasty, hope you enjoy your cesspit of pleasure. You should try the bareback challenge, and take a round from every guy in the bathhouse. Enjoy your freedom.


I can go to the strip club and get a lap dance.


Sounds like your blinders are on a bit.


I have health insurance.


Which you are legislated to buy. Cut backs in the future of obamacare will leave you facing deathpanels for more and more medical problems that your insurance should have covered but gradually was stripped of coverage to reduce costs. You have the freedom to pay the legislated monopoly conglomerate more and more for less and less.


There are more pot shops in LA than there are Starbucks.


And what about coke huts? May I still take the exstasy based diet (did you know exstasy used to be a diet pill)?


I can vote.


Yes, you can vote for the choices that they allow you to be offered. Congrats. I would rather vote no confidence in all choices offered. They are all incompetent and I do not trust any of them, and would rather be left with the option of voting on how I contribute to society (rather than being told how I am to contribute no matter what I vote).


I can drink up a storm.


and get a ticket for public intoxication.


I can smoke up a storm.


but pay a huge chunk of your income in taxes, even though your early death would actually save the system and health insurance providers a tonne of money.


I can sign up to the military if I want to...no one is forced to (yet).


But someday you will get forced. It is called conscription. If there aren't enough volunteers, they will take what they need. In Israel military service is required. Expect US policies to change soon.


The list goes on.


Of things concentric to your world view, all the while you are ignoring freedoms of others so long as it doesn't influence what you view are your freedoms.


So please, enlighten us...what freedoms are we losing?


How about to one day have some real payoff to working like a slave bitch your whole life, to one day live somewhere free of their goddamned meddling, and off the grid? Technically that is illegal, and if you own property you cannot live on it without money (property tax, which will eventually get your land seized). Freedom is to one day work yourself off the system.

How about the right to your privacy?
Body scanners, biometrics.

How about your freedom of speech?
(free speech zones, hate speech, protest zones, etc)

How about freedom of the press?
Illegal to tape cops, difficulties filming or photographing government buildings and monuments, reportable activity to fusion centers, etc.

How about freedom to work for yourself?
extra taxes, bigger deficits, stricter regulations shutting out the small guy.

How about the right to your own currency?
Criminal cartel management of your own money by the federal reserve, which is now printing off as much as possible to bankrupt all of you american suckers.

All of your dear freedoms are under attack, but you boil it down to what you can and cannot do at the moment.

Well you cannot always drive down the road without running into a militarized road blockade in america. Soon you will have to bring your papers with you, and be willing to submit to random searches for your own protection. So one day you won't be-able to drive to the bathhouse or the strip club, you'll be stuck in the fema camp. You can have sex with your bunkmate or beat off. If the system decides everything for you, you lose everything. It's time to cut this festering parasite off of our backs.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by 12voltz
reply to post by spy66
 


Thats like saying because there is no earthquake today ,there will never be one.Yes Iran will be back in the headline because ,war is contagious.


Earthquakes are a natural disaster that is unavoidable....I would hope and like to think, people are above being a natural disaster, although we simulate the destruction very well, our actions are changeable. Natural Disasters will always be there yes, but does war?



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by orangutang
 


Who the hell is still alive an din power responsible for that?



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