North Korea’s Military Strength. No Pushovers!

reply to post by xBWOMPx

if it was a full blown war we would have won taht war also

can you prove your point with details?

reply to post by NeverApologize


North Korea does have the 4th largest standing army in the world. And they are a nuclear power.
They would not be a walk in the park. Yeah, maybe if we could just bomb them to dust, but you can't do that.
So they would be a huge problem. This would be a major major conflict. Much bigger than the two wars we have been in for the last ten years.

Here's my take on this matter, The US will win .... hoorah ....BUT AFTER that we will be F in the @ss by other strong countries.

Originally posted by beholdblight
reply to post by Xeven

 

And when Russia comes to back both its allies....

edit on 28-11-2010 by beholdblight because: (no reason given)

A top-of-the-line aircraft, the new T-50 FGFA is being jointly developed by Sukhoi design bureau, which is now part of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and the Indian aerospace and defense major Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL). India is providing the software and some hardware modules and will manufacture 250 two-seater versions of the war-bird to meet the requirements of its air superiority doctrine. The single-seater version is for the Russian Air Force.


The Indo-Russian PAK FA T-50.
It is designed to directly compete with Lockheed Martin’s F-22 Raptor
and F-35 Lightning II.

There’s no chance this FGFA would be sold to North Korea! They can never afford it at one hundred million dollars a piece!



For those interested in a comparison with the F-22 Raptor...

www.blokeish.com...

I'm going to go way back to WWII to put a little historical perspective on the MIG vs. F-22 and technology vs. quantity debate in this thread.

Undoubtedly the German forces of WWII had the most technologically advanced tanks. However their technology was not only their biggest strength it was also their achilles heal. Using the Tiger I as an example the Germans had arguably the best overall tank of the war. This created a heap of problems when it came to maintenance. Far too many of them had to be abandoned on the battle field due to a lack of spare parts. They were not easily repaired with just any old thing lying around. There wasn't a whole lot of part interchangeability. Its far easier to replace vacuum tubes than fly-by-wire flight controls. Also coupled with high production costs the superior tank was much more difficult and time consuming to produce.
In contrast a tank that was inferior in every aspect except for production cost and ease of maintenance was the M4 Sherman. The allied forces on the Western Front would send up to 5 Shermans to take on one Tiger. Volume was used to overwhelm the superior tank. The M4 was far less sophisticated and was easliy repaired and produced.

I realize the DPRK doesn't have any great production capability but I want to point out you have to look at more than one angle in the debate. Bigger, better, faster, stronger isn't always better and sometimes there is strength in numbers. One last tidbit. The MIG 29 along with most Soviet bloc fighters are designed to operate in far worse condtions, climates, and from air fields US fighters could never operate from.

Originally posted by THE-LURKER
I realize the DPRK doesn't have any great production capability...

North Korea has annual production capacity for 200,000 AK automatic guns, 3,000 heavy guns, 200 battle tanks, 400 armored cars and amphibious crafts. North Korea makes its own submarines, landing drafts, high-speed missile-boats, and other types of warships. Home-made weaponry makes it possible for North Korea to maintain a large military force on a shoestring budget. North Korea defense industry is made of three groups: weapon production, production of military supplies, and military-civilian dual-use product manufacturing.

North Korea has 17 plants for guns and artillery, 35 plants for ammunition, 5 plants for tanks and armored cars, 8 plants for airplanes, 5 plants for warships, 3 plants for guided missiles, 5 plants for communication equipment, and 8 plants for biochemical warheads - 134 plants in total. In addition, many plants that make consumer products are designed so that they can be made to produce military items with minimum modification. About 180 of defense related plants are built underground in the rugged mountainous areas of Jagang-do. Several small to medium hydro-power plants serve these plants so that it would be nearly impossible for the US to cut off power to the plants.

Even if half of this is true, they sure have enough capacity and production capability for a protracted war!




rense.com...

North Korea, has a large INFANTRY, as far as a standing army. Where technology is concerned it is lacking yet it does have advantage in a conventional perspective. Considering NK geography it would make a land invasion difficult and time consuming, all in all we can bomb the crap outta NK til they are without power and heating capabilities yet I assure you once civilians start dieing we will hear it all over the WORLD, and outrage from the far right in communism will start screaming, whoever thinks we can just march in the capital of NK in a couple of days in far from realistic. It will take a few months to beat the snot out of them and even then I am under the impression they will not surrender, they will be hiding in hills in caves and in tree's fighting, conventionally this can go on for a long time, the only way I can see a successful conventional conflict would be with china's help in the aspect of annexing the country after it was conquered, I do not see a republic possible and god forbid we do not need another Iraq, in the United states of America. Yet if this regime continues to kill people for sport of respect they need to be recycled, or dealt with. Their is going to be allot of unknown when the Korean conflict erupts. Even more then now.

reply to post by THE-LURKER


If this turns into a battle of attrition, I am sorry but NK will lose. Until NK can make bombers to reach USA we will have the advantage in production. Looking at it from all sides it would be stupid for NK to stand toe to toe with USA, without some super power help if they think they can win. Even with Atomic weapons.

Originally posted by Bicent76
It will take a few months to beat the snot out of them and even then I am under the impression they will not surrender, they will be hiding in hills in caves and in tree's fighting, conventionally this can go on for a long time.

Right! Remember, these guys are physically tough. They can survive with emergency rations consisting of dried nuts for days. They don't require a/c dining halls and a menu fit for kings like Americans do. They don't need to take bath in a/c toilets with 24x7 running water! They don't need a good WC for a crap. And they use leaves as toilet paper during training when they are required to live off the land for days on end!

Can Americans do all this? And if they can't their morale will sure take a beating! I mean if you can't have a comfortable crap in a WC after a packed meal of the finest sausages with mayonnaise sauce and buttered flakes with Swiss cheese then you can't expect them to fight with a bad mood!!

reply to post by Bicent76


I agree, and China annexing N Korea results in a strategic loss for us despite winning militarily.

That's what I wish the "We'll kick their ass easily" crowd would understand.

Yes we can win militarily, but Seoul will be destroyed and S Korea will not be an economic player for a decade at least - rebuilt at U.S. taxpayer expense I'm sure. So what did we win like that?

We need to do everything we can to keep pandora's box closed until we are in a better position. What position is that people may ask?

Honestly, I think a war with China is inevitable with our current mindset. They have piggybacked their way to the top on our backs. We need to find a way to force a proxy war where it is them doing the fighting and not us. Like their natural adversary India.

I would cut trade with China drastically and give all that trade to India. India can arm the crap out of their country with all the trade we take from China and give to them. Strongly support India's position on disputed territories with China. Make a big stink at the UN about Tibet. Stuff like that.

Hell, trade with everyone but China! Increase our focus on South America!

Hmm they are using 30 year old tech and the soldiers would be starving in a month. Hmm ya really strong fighting force alright. Let me guess did you start a thread years ago about how strong Iraq was before the war?



And let me make this clear I think the wars have become a industry like coke or snack cakes but to say N. Korea is a powerhouse is just dumb.

reply to post by AP-Chris


I have nothing against China, except for the fact their human rights are a bit arcane in their lands, yet until they position themselves otherwise I see no need to disrupt positive relations with China. However you want to look at it, they have made positive strides to this blossoming economy we had up until the point of the implosion, which is not all their fault, in all in all they are a piece of the economic aspect of the 21st century. Now if they start to strain relations with acts that diplomacy cannot shade, then so be it, I at this point do not see an inevitable war with China, I just see allot of misunderstanding in the cultures.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Hmm they are using 30 year old tech and the soldiers would be starving in a month. Hmm ya really strong fighting force alright. Let me guess did you start a thread years ago about how strong Iraq was before the war?

And let me make this clear I think the wars have become a industry like coke or snack cakes but to say N. Korea is a powerhouse is just dumb.

To think they are not is naive.

How sophisticated are our defense systems? Can they stop Seoul from getting hit with 500,000 artillery rounds an hour for several hours? No.

So they could level the capital of S Korea with 10,000,000+ people there. But they are just a joke, right?

They don't have to win against the U.S. outright, all they have to do is wipe out Seoul, then all anyone is doing is fighting for damaged goods.

Originally posted by AP-Chris

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Hmm they are using 30 year old tech and the soldiers would be starving in a month. Hmm ya really strong fighting force alright. Let me guess did you start a thread years ago about how strong Iraq was before the war?

And let me make this clear I think the wars have become a industry like coke or snack cakes but to say N. Korea is a powerhouse is just dumb.

To think they are not is naive.

How sophisticated are our defense systems? Can they stop Seoul from getting hit with 500,000 artillery rounds an hour for several hours? No.

So they could level the capital of S Korea with 10,000,000+ people there. But they are just a joke, right?

They don't have to win against the U.S. outright, all they have to do is wipe out Seoul, then all anyone is doing is fighting for damaged goods.

The point is the North is not a military powerhouse. Canada could take out Detroit if the wanted to but in the end they have a weak military.

Originally posted by Bicent76
reply to post by AP-Chris

 

I have nothing against China, except for the fact their human rights are a bit arcane in their lands, yet until they position themselves otherwise I see no need to disrupt positive relations with China. However you want to look at it, they have made positive strides to this blossoming economy we had up until the point of the implosion, which is not all their fault, in all in all they are a piece of the economic aspect of the 21st century. Now if they start to strain relations with acts that diplomacy cannot shade, then so be it, I at this point do not see an inevitable war with China, I just see allot of misunderstanding in the cultures.

Relations with China are positive, that's for sure! Positive impact on their economy and a loss of jobs in ours. Their "positve strides to this blossoming economy" was done by currency manipulation and slave wages which has depressed manufacturing wages not only in the U.S. but everywhere else.

They have been in an economic war with us and our politicians are too corrupt to do anything about it. You misunderstand their culture if you think there are some benign trading partner. They are very smart and have been playing a chess match to get to where they are. I don't blame them for that. I just wish we weren't playing wack-a-mole.

Have you read about all the sophisticated viruses and cyber war coming out of China? They are not our pleasant little asian friends to the East. They are serious folks.

reply to post by AP-Chris


we are only to blame with the losses of jobs in America. As far as their great cyber attacks on America, well that is still something in contention. As I stated once their diplomats cannot shade their actions then so be it. I hear ya thou, I can meet you half way, if you take some of what I am saying off, and I take some of what you are saying off, we can see the truth a lil clearly I suppose.

reply to post by Bicent76

we are only to blame with the losses of jobs in America.

Not really we, more like corrupt politicians who don't actually represent their people.

As far as their great cyber attacks on America, well that is still something in contention.

The top 10 Chinese Cyber Attacks

Why are you putting doubt in something that has been confirmed by so many sources both in the U.S. and abroad?

As I stated once their diplomats cannot shade their actions then so be it.

The Chinese have always been some of the best at shading their intentions. Once they are not, it will be too late. When someone announces "Check," then "Checkmate" usually follows.

I hear ya thou, I can meet you half way, if you take some of what I am saying off, and I take some of what you are saying off, we can see the truth a lil clearly I suppose.

Sounds OK except I don't see any error in my positions, only yours. Sorry.

I'm not a warmonger calling for war with china or NK for that matter. But if we sit back and continue going in our current direction, it will come. Unfortuneately, I think our politicians are too hopelessly corrupt and incompetent to avoid it.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
Hmm they are using 30 year old tech and the soldiers would be starving in a month. Hmm ya really strong fighting force alright. Let me guess did you start a thread years ago about how strong Iraq was before the war?

And let me make this clear N. Korea is a powerhouse is just dumb.

How North Korean Artillery Could Level Seoul In Two Hours

North Korea is known to have the world's largest artillery force. South Korea's capital city is only 35 miles from the border.

Although the range of Kim Jong-il's arsenal is fodder for debate, it's certain the rogue dictator could hit Seoul with many shells in a matter of hours. He did take a few potshots last January. This threat is a key reason North Korea can bully its neighbor and stand up to US intervention.

Most artillery shells won't reach Seoul... but at least 17 Regiments consisting of the larger caliber guns will!





Counter bombardment? But their gun positions would be hard to detect!






Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

reply to post by Subjective Truth

The point is the North is not a military powerhouse. Canada could take out Detroit if the wanted to but in the end they have a weak military.

In point of fact, Canada has 67,000 active duty forces and does not have hardened artillery positions trained on Detroit, so I doubt they could take out Detroit if we considered them an enemy and treated our border like the DMZ. NK has what, about 1.2 million active duty troops. Well fortified, disciplined, conditioned and fed. They will not run out of food in 30 days as someone here suggested.

Despite a state of constant readiness and preparation on our part, NK could destroy Seoul, so they are a powerhouse as far as we and our ally SK is concerned. That is why we have troops and plans for them and not Canada (that I am aware of!).

Since we are getting into facts, maybe the "nuke em" crowd ought to check into dominating air currents:

maps.grida.no...

From what I know, nuclear option is off the table for us because fallout would normally be pushed out across our ally Japan.

Japan will not let us use nukes on any meaningful scale that would be a magic bullet to end the war. Especially having been nuked by us a long time ago.

Food for thought for those who think it will be a cake walk and if it isn't we can just nuke our way to victory.