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does this Venturi theory explain mutual attraction of bodies? aka gravity

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posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:24 AM
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Venturi theory of gravity interaction
effect is NOT magnetic lol



Two bodies are directly attracted to each other and are “drawn” together because of the interaction with an expanding solar medium.
As the solar medium density expands outwards it encounters two bodies of equal mass and tries to “expand” around them as the density moves through the bodies this expansion is channelled by the two surfaces directly between the bodies. This produces an effect called the venturi effect,
As the medium tries to curve around and inbetween the bodies it must first increase in speed as the two curves are transversed toward the equator. This increases the effective flow speed like a constriction and provides for a low pressure area between the bodies, which creates a “suction” effect between the bodies at their closest point.
The closer the bodies get to each other the higher the “suction” and the faster they are “drawn” together.

In physics, an inverse-square law is any physical law stating that some physical quantity or strength is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source of that physical quantity.

en.wikipedia.org...

According to the laws governing fluid dynamics, a fluid's velocity must increase as it passes through a constriction to satisfy the conservation of mass, while its pressure must decrease to satisfy the conservation of energy. Thus any gain in kinetic energy a fluid may accrue due to its increased velocity through a constriction is negated by a drop in pressure. An equation for the drop in pressure due to the Venturi effect may be derived from a combination of Bernoulli's principle and the continuity equation.
The limiting case of the Venturi effect is when a fluid reaches the state of choked flow, where the fluid velocity approaches the local speed of sound. In choked flow the mass flow rate will not increase with a further decrease in the downstream pressure environment.
However, mass flow rate for a compressible fluid can increase with increased upstream pressure, which will increase the density of the fluid through the constriction (though the velocity will remain constant). This is the principle of operation of a de Laval nozzle.
Referring to the diagram to the right, using Bernoulli's equation in the special case of incompressible flows (such as the flow of water or other liquid, or low speed flow of gas), the theoretical pressure drop (p1 − p2) at the constriction would be given by:

en.wikipedia.org...
and remember the expansion is a constant and would increase the effect in an inversely square proportion to distance.


This works for medium densities where the effective distance between the objects is close enough so that both bodies are effecting a combined increase in speed because of density/nominal speeds or C constant expansion is having to increase velocity between the bodies to continue expansion at the constant. This increase in medium speeds is required to account for the expansion C or constant, at distances between two bodies that are close enough to “restrict” flow. This creates a proportional increase in velocity between the bodies creating the “suction” and mutual attraction. As the bodies get closer together the effect is increased as the medium density has to achive higher and higher velocity to account for less area to travel in between the bodies.
This is a mechanism that uses medium density expansion as a constant and medium density velocity to calculate attractive forces.

xploder

edit on 27-11-2010 by XPLodER because: spelling

edit on 27-11-2010 by XPLodER because: change thread tittle to make topic clear

edit on 27-11-2010 by XPLodER because: add utube video




posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:45 AM
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here is a diagram showing the basic venturi operation



proportionally as the distence decreases the velocitys speed increases increasing the effect.


xp
edit on 27-11-2010 by XPLodER because: add utube clip



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 05:15 AM
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Bernoulli's Principle and venturi causing attraction

www.youtube.com...



xploder



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 


Does this mean that the best time to attract hot babes is during a strong gust of wind ?

Second line ; thanks for sharing



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 07:43 AM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
Your diagram is incorrect. You show only a low pressure area between the planets, but you forgot to draw the solar wind curving around the outside edges of the planets. Therefore, any effect from the low pressure areas pulling the bodies together would be canceled by the low pressure areas pulling the bodies apart. Therefore there's no net effect pulling the bodies closer together.

Even if you were to somehow block the solar wind from traveling around the outside edge of the planets, I'm not sure there's enough pressure in space to push the bodies together, or it would be so small as to be immeasurable and inconsequential (like the fact that the earth also moves toward your pencil when you drop a pencil, yes it happens but it's an immeasurably small effect).



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 

What you are seeing in the first video is a product of cohesion/adhesion. Cohesion is the attraction or sticking together of two like molecules (water to water) and adhesion is the attraction of two unlike molecules (water to ping pong ball).

Bernoulli's principle fails to accurately describe wing lift. Below is a link to better explain what I mean.
How Airplanes Fly: A Physical Description of Lift

What this shows is that wings create atmospheric buoyancy for the airplanes load in a similar way that a boat does on water, same thing happens to a rock in a river. It has to do with a disruption of the atmospheric medium in which a vacuum is created above the wings. This vacuum pulls the air above the wing down from an area called the "scoop" into what is called the downwash. It is the displacement of air from the scoop area to the downwash that gives a wing lift. The amount of air that is downwashed from the scoop must be equal to or greater than the load of the plane to give it any lift.

Most people believe that gravity is a pulling effect but I think this is the same problem we have with Bernuolli's principle, that is- a misconception. The question to whether gravity is a pulling effect or pushing has not been properly answered. I think you may have a basic understanding of a pushing gravity theory yet there is much more to it.

I originally read about this theory from another source, not online, so I did a search for an online version. It has been a long time but I think I have read much of the material from this site before.
The Electro-Magnetic Radiation Pressure (EMRP) Gravity Theory



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


Xploder
Volumetric expansion
Area of circle 1 = 1 dia = volume 0.5235987756
Area of circle 2 = 2dia =volume 4.188790205
Area of circle 3 = 3 dia =volume 14.13716694
So at a constant expansion rate the volume increase, increases exponentially.
This provides for expansion in 3 dimensions and in all directions equally.
This expansion can expand outward and every incremental step requires an ever increasing expansion of the expansion to fill ever larger areas.
It is the expansion of three dimentional space that provides for the two bodies to be attracted together.
In effect the amount of 3d expansion between the two bodies creates a “low pressure area” by causing the expansion to have to expand through the distance between the bodies and if the distance between the bodies is less than is required for the expansion,
An effect of increased velocity or venturi is created (think in 3d space density terms)
This effect is curving the 3d expansion between the two bodies and has to increase the velocity of the expansion between the bodies to account for the expansion constant C between the two bodies.
When the distance D cannot allow for the expansion constant C there is a corresponding increase of velocity of the 3d expansion between the bodies.
This expanding constant C joins the distance D between the bodies like a three dimensional funnel
Because the bodies are acting upon one another there is more expansion potential velocity increase between them than around their outer surfaces. This is because like a lane wing and a plane wing creating lift between each other causing a suction “area” between them drawing them together.
The other side of the wing is unable to counter the combined forces of the two inner edges suction and is over come.
But the process in space is not expansion of gas but an expansion of 3 dimensional space that the bodies reside in.
This moveing medium density is curved around the bodies.
When the expansion constant C is reached between these objects they start to attract.
And as they are “joined” between and not on the outside diameter. the force between them multiplies there combined effect to over come the outer surface interaction.
example
Outer left 1/4 between 1/2 outer right 1/4
In this way when the expansion constant C is reached between two objects distance D they are attracted in an inverse square manner.
xploder



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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what makes gravity work when, for instance, a person is standing on earth and is 180 degrees opposed from the Sun?



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:57 PM
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reply to post by Devino
 


hi buddy
i have drawn a diagram to explain the effect i am seeing
in the hopes you can explain the interaction



A = density expansion
Z = velocity increase
F = velocity decrease to A

thanks for the reading material good info

xploder



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by abecedarian
what makes gravity work when, for instance, a person is standing on earth and is 180 degrees opposed from the Sun?


expansion in a sphere at the C constant is three dimentional
this effect occours any where in three dimentional space where expansion is constant between two objects.
the effect can occour inbetween objects because of the rate of expansion

xploder



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
But the process in space is not expansion of gas but an expansion of 3 dimensional space that the bodies reside in.
This moveing medium density is curved around the bodies.
There are so many problems with that reply I don't have time to address all of them, but I'll pick one. The expansion of 3 dimensional space on the scale of the solar system is negligible:

Why doesn't the Solar System expand if the whole Universe is expanding?


Cooperstock et al. computes that the influence of the cosmological expansion on the Earth's orbit around the Sun amounts to a growth by only one part in a septillion over the age of the Solar System.

That's pretty negligible, wouldn't you agree?

So we can disregard everything you said about "an expansion of 3 dimensional space that the bodies reside in" given that magnitude of the effect, can't we?



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by XPLodER
[quoteBut the process in space is not expansion of gas but an expansion of 3 dimensional space that the bodies reside in.
This moveing medium density is curved around the bodies.
There are so many problems with that reply I don't have time to address all of them, but I'll pick one. The expansion of 3 dimensional space on the scale of the solar system is negligible:

when you consider there is some thing holding back the universe at about 10,000,000,000 kms called the helio sphere and consider that all that energy comes from the sun out to that boundry at about 1,000,000 km/h in a highly energetic fashion you can asume that energy has transversed from the sun to this boundry in some form in an expanding manner
so if there is that much energy being ejected to the boundry there is more than enough energy to hold back a 6000 deg hot gas cloud you can imagine, there is more than enough energy EXPANDING though the helio sphere




Cooperstock et al. computes that the influence of the cosmological expansion on the Earth's orbit around the Sun amounts to a growth by only one part in a septillion over the age of the Solar System.

That's pretty negligible, wouldn't you agree?


So we can disregard everything you said about "an expansion of 3 dimensional space that the bodies reside in" given that magnitude of the effect, can't we?


well if you consider the helio sphere to be a "bubble" blown into the interstella medium you can conprehend what the expansion of a spherical shape does to a density medium

and ps dont forget that solar wind travels in this expanding solar medium density
so there is even more for bodies to interact with
when the sun "blows" the "bubble" that is the helio sphere

there is more than enough energy imparted to account for the effects i have discussed

not sure why you would think there there is small amounts of energy involved
there is enough energy to hold back the universe (really)
and it all comes from the sun and expands outwards

thanks for the links

xploder

edit on 27-11-2010 by XPLodER because: add diagram



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
not sure why you would think there there is small amounts of energy involved
there is enough energy to hold back the universe (really)

thanks for the links
You're welcome.

Did I say there was small amounts of energy involved?

You said space was expanding in the solar system, and the link I provided cited calculations about how negligible that expansion is within our solar system.

I never claimed the solar wind didn't have significant energy. But I also explained why the solar wind won't create the venturi effect, and that's when you brought up the expanding space stuff.

If you have some measurements and data you want to cite to support your claim that space is expanding within our solar system, please cite sources. My source says it's expanding, but an insignificant amount, that I would call negligible for the purposes of your venturi calculations. But I'm open to seeing other sources that say differently if they are credible, so post 'em if you got 'em.
edit on 27-11-2010 by Arbitrageur because: fix typo



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 01:11 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


here is some basic info on heliospherical properties

The heliosphere is a bubble in space "blown" into the interstellar medium (the hydrogen and helium gas that permeates the galaxy) by the solar wind. Although electrically neutral atoms from interstellar volume can penetrate this bubble, virtually all of the material in the heliosphere emanates from the Sun itself. It was thought for decades that it extends in a long comet-like tail, but in 2009 data from the Cassini and IBEX show a different shape.[1][2]

For the first ten billion kilometres of its radius, the solar wind travels at over a million kilometres per hour.[3][4] As it begins to drop out with the interstellar medium, it slows down before finally ceasing altogether. The point where the solar wind slows down is the termination shock; the point where the interstellar medium and solar wind pressures balance is called the heliopause; the point where the interstellar medium, traveling in the opposite direction, slows down as it collides with the heliosphere is the bow shock.



heliosphere







source nasa


With increasing distance from the Sun, the high-speed streams overtake the slower plasma, producing corotating interaction regions (CIRs) on their leading edges. CIRs are bounded by two shocks at the front and rear edges called the forward and reverse shocks. At these shocks, the density, pressure, and magnetic field strength are all higher. These regions are quite effective as energetic particle accelerators. When ions that have been accelerated at a CIR are observed, they are called corotating ion events.



nasa . gov


The IBEX has produced a new set of “all-sky” maps of our solar system’s interaction with the galaxy, allowing researchers to continue viewing and studying the interaction between our galaxy and Sun. The new maps reveal changing conditions in the region that separates the nearest reaches of our galaxy, called the local interstellar medium, from our heliosphere -- a protective bubble that shields and protects our solar system.



ibex information




The first suggestions concerning the existence and nature of the heliosphere were made in 1955 by Leverett Davis in connection with the origin and propagation of cosmic rays. The essential element was that "solar corpuscular radiation" (termed the "solar wind" in 1958 by Eugene Parker) would force matter and magnetic flux in the local interstellar medium outward, thereby partially excluding cosmic rays. The simplest expression of the concept is that the solar wind blows a spherical bubble, the "heliosphere," that continually expands over the lifetime of the solar system. However, if there is a significant pressure in the interstellar medium, the expansion must eventually stop. The resulting quasi-static bubble is then of the order R AU where R is determined by equating the ram pressure of the solar wind to the total interstellar pressure, P (internal + dynamic + magnetic + cosmic ray pressure):


M.I.T.


The distances to the termination shock and to the heliopause are not known. Still, with equation (1) and more sophisticated derivative calculations, it is possible to make estimates. Figure 4 shows such a calculation of the shock distance in the upstream direction for a range of interstellar field strengths and densities. The estimated values for R range between 60 and 150 AU for the parameters from Table 1. This now forces the question of whether there a way of remotely determining R. This influences whether we will continue to collect data from spacecraft in the outer heliosphere. If Pioneer 10 and Voyagers 1/2 have any possibility of passing the shock and the heliopause, it would be a great addition to our knowledge of the heliosphere. Only a finite time exists because Pioneer 10 has about reached its limits and the Voyagers will run out of electrical power by about 2030.


2/3 of way down page M.I.T.


OUR PRESENT UNDERSTANDING OF THE HELIOSPHERE

Guided by Table 1, the fast mode speed, cf, in the local fluff may be between 10 and 40 km/s (the sound speed is 10 km/s). Thus, VI may be larger than cf which would modify the configuration shown in Figure 2 in three ways. First, a bow shock can form, much like the bow shock in front of the Earth`s magnetosphere. Second, if VI is supersonic, the pressure on the downstream side and flanks of the termination shock is reduced, causing the shock to be further from the Sun in these directions. These two effects have been numerically modeled in a few cases, an example of which is shown in Figure 3 in which VI is assumed to be highly supersonic (The empty circle inside the termination shock represents the inner boundary for the calculation and has no physical significance.). Thirdly, since BI will generally not be aligned with the heliotail, the configuration will no longer be axisymmetric about the heliotail axis. However, effects of an arbitrary BI have not yet been incorporated into numerical simulations.



source mit as above


Table 1. Properties of the Very Local Interstellar Medium

Property Value

NEUTRAL COMPONENT
Flow Speed 25 +/- 2 km/s
Flow Direction 75.4 ecliptic longitude
-7.5 ecliptic latitude
Hydrogen density 0.10 +/- 0.01 /cubic cm
Helium density 0.010 +/- 0.003 /cubic cm
Hydrogen temperature (7 +/- 2) x 1000K
Helium temperature (7 +/- 2) x 1000K
IONIZED COMPONENT
Electron density < 0.3/ cubic cm
Flow speed Assumed same as neutral component
Flow direction Assumed same as neutral component
Ion temperature Assumed same as neutral component
MAGNETIC FIELD
Magnitude 0.1 - 0.5 nT
Direction Unknown
COSMIC RAYS
Total pressure (1.3+/-0.2) x 10^(-12)dynes/square cm



same source mit


source unknown



xploder
edit on 28-11-2010 by XPLodER because: add more pics



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 01:29 AM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


utube animation (artistic interpretation)


xp



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 03:08 AM
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reply to post by XPLodER
 
Thanks but I don't see anything in there that says space is expanding, did I miss it?



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 04:36 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


i think the main points are that our sun blows a bubble in a 6000 degree interstella space medium,
for that bubble to hold back the "pressure" of the interstella medium requires a masive amount of pressure.
this pressure is massive to to "hold back" the "pressure" of the interstella medium and requires a constant flow of "pressure" from the sun to the helio shock. this pressure is required to "fill" the bubble and to hold it open and is a continuous "flow" from the sun.
as pressure and density is related as is area, there is an expansion of area for the "pressure" to fill so in three dimentions this pressure is expanding.
when we estimate the solar wind is traveling at 1,000,000 km/h to the helio sphere at a radius of 10,000,000,000 to 15,000,000,000 from the sun using presure/density equations we can calculate the requirements of the pressure/density in the area to achieve the 1,000,000 km/h speed of the density at the circumference of the helioshock.
the calculations would show expansion is required because the pressure if constant in all aeras has to come from the sun. the expansion is the way the sun can have a density pressure constant in the "bubble"

ie
if the radius of the bubble was halved the speed of the solar medium at the heliosphere would increase by a factor of the lost area. this implys that medium density speed of expansion is directly related to the area that is required to be "filled" by the pressure avaliable.
so it is a pressure/density requirement that expansion be ongoing or the bubble would collapse but because of the ever increasing area encounterd as the radius increases the effect of the expansion breaks down and is too low a pressure to continue "expanding" outward.

the pressure/density/area relationship is well definded and as the presure is coming from the sun so too is the density and the pressure/density of expansion is in three dimentions


Pressure is an effect which occurs when a force is applied on a surface. Pressure is the amount of force acting on a unit area. The symbol of pressure is P.[1][2]

[edit] Formula
Conjugate variables
of thermodynamics
Pressure Volume
(Stress) (Strain)
Temperature Entropy
Chemical potential Particle number

Mathematically:


where:


P is the pressure,
F is the normal force,
A is the area.

en.wikipedia.org...


The mass density of a material varies with temperature and pressure. (The variance is typically small for solids and liquids and much greater for gasses.) Increasing the pressure on an object decreases the volume of the object and therefore increase its density. Increasing the temperature of a substance (with some exceptions) decreases its density by increasing the volume of that substance. In most materials, heating the bottom of a fluid results in convection of the heat from bottom to top of the fluid due to the decrease of the density of the heated fluid. This causes it to rise relative to more dense unheated material.

The reciprocal of the density of a substance is called its specific volume, a representation commonly used in thermodynamics. Density is an intensive property in that increasing the amount of a substance does not increase its density; rather it increases its mass.


en.wikipedia.org...


SA of a sphere = 4*pi*r^2

V of a sphere = (4*pi*r^3)/3


i have attempted to look into explaining the volumetric expansion vs pressure/density relationship but
the material gets complicated fast
so let me explain in english

if presure creates a bubble in vacum it will expand till the presure density equalizes with the medium ie indefinate expansion

if pressure creates a bubble in air pressure environments then the bubble will want to expand so the pressure is reletive to the "air" its in

if pressure creates a bubble in a pressurized environment the bubble will be smaller "compressed" and density inside the bubble will increase proportional to the difference of pressure inside and out side the bubble.

this is to represent the pressure density relationship

ok so the solar wind has to transverse from the center through the "density" and "repel or counteract the "compresive" forces outside the bubble.

in the case of the heliosphere there is an exchange of pressure and density at its boundrys
this requires a "constant" flow of pressure/density to the interaction boundry

this is the expansion i am refering to

xploder



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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volumetric expansion of a bubble in a "static" medium (water)




xploder



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 07:15 PM
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Originally posted by XPLodER
i think the main points are that our sun blows a bubble in a 6000 degree interstella space medium,
for that bubble to hold back the "pressure" of the interstella medium requires a masive amount of pressure.
this pressure is massive to to "hold back" the "pressure" of the interstella medium and requires a constant flow of "pressure" from the sun to the helio shock. this pressure is required to "fill" the bubble and to hold it open and is a continuous "flow" from the sun.
What you seem to be referring to is "flow" rather than what you claimed earlier, which is "expansion". Yes the solar wind flows through the solar system, like water flows through the garden hose, but this flow doesn't mean the heliosphere is expanding nor does it mean the garden hose is getting any longer just because there is flow.Data on the termination shock and heliopause of our heliosphere is a bit sketchy, but again there's no indication it's constantly expanding. The solar wind does have a constant outward flow but this may be a more or less steady state condition with some deviation (like flares and CMEs), but no consistent growth or "expansion" as you put it, that I'm aware of.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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reply to post by Arbitrageur
 


ok ill try again

three dimentional expansion in a sphere

we have figuars of 10,000,000,000 to 15,000,000,000 kms from the sun to the heliosphere boundry
we have 1,000,000 km/h winds

how fast is that wind at the sun?
1,800,000 km/h an average of todays data

so the solar wind losses 80% of its speed but that is in an increased area from 1AU to to 20 AU
ie
Area of circle 1 = 1 dia = volume 0.5235987756
Area of circle 2 = 2dia =volume 4.188790205
Area of circle 3 = 3 dia =volume 14.13716694

if i continue to 10 the volume is many many times the original volume at 1AU but the speed has only halved




this is the expansion im talking about

hope this helps

xploder


edit on 28-11-2010 by XPLodER because: add picture



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