The First Nuclear War

I think the best way to handle this war is by using a branch of the American military that makes them so feared: the Special Forces. We all know that Kim Jong and his son are the problem in this situation, and the two parties truly responsible for instigating all out war on the peninsula. If the USA would just send in the special forces, assassinate Kim Jong and his son, be in and out about it, then this entire nightmare scenario will go away, no huge war will have to be fought, and the two people responsible for it will be good and gone.

Originally posted by Secularist
I think the best way to handle this war is by using a branch of the American military that makes them so feared: the Special Forces. We all know that Kim Jong and his son are the problem in this situation, and the two parties truly responsible for instigating all out war on the peninsula. If the USA would just send in the special forces, assassinate Kim Jong and his son, be in and out about it, then this entire nightmare scenario will go away, no huge war will have to be fought, and the two people responsible for it will be good and gone.

Thank you, finally, someone making sense!
I think you're onto something here. This seems like a clean way of getting a dirty job done.

reply to post by Secularist


If that decision was so easy, then every leader in the world who has opponents would have to fear for their life. I hated Bush and believe that he is a war criminal, does that mean that if I was a leader I would have him assassinated?

Plus, who else would you assassinate just because they don't agree with you? Ahmadinejad? Chavez? Medvedev? Where do you draw the line?

It would be absolutely idiotic to do that. It would put every leader in the world at risk.

reply to post by Magnum007


I respectfully disagree. Think about it, North Korea is nowhere close to being as big as China, Russia, Iran, Venezuela, or any other country you listed. They're a pest that needs to be controlled. When it all comes down to it the U.S. ALWAYS has a plan for their special ops, it's whether the plan comes to life or not is what matters.

Originally posted by Magnum007
reply to post by Secularist

 

Ahmadinejad

President Ahmadinejad is not the problem, religion is the problem. People need education. Thats the problem there.

North Korea is like what was stated: a pest. This would also work to China's benefit if they should step in and offer assistance on reestablishing the government of North Korea and giving it back to the people. Nobody will ever have to know America was involved. There are 10 NATO warships on route to NK now to accompany the USS G. Washington. Its getting pretty real and this would end the situation completely. Its those two that are pushing for war, not North Koreans. The only alternative is really all out war to contain Kim Jong. He has already violated the cease fire pact and bombed South Korea, killed its citizens, and tells everybody else to back of or war, after hes detonated a successful nuclear weapon. Want to wait around for Iran to get nuclear and then its two massive problems (theyre allies btw) to worry about at once instead of one at a time?

Special Forces would solve so many problems right now.

reply to post by Secularist


That is not true. Germany already lost the war before the Americans came to play when they failed to capture Moscow before winter. I do agree that the red army would not have coped without US aid. Something Stalin admitted.
However to say Russia didn't play a role is ignorant. Without Russia the war would have a different outcome.

The American food and raw materials were a key factor of course, but it would not have mattered a thing if there were no Russians using it..But hey... That's what allies do when they are fighting a common enemy. They help each other.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Secularist

 

That is not true. Germany already lost the war before the Americans came to play when they failed to capture Moscow before winter. I do agree that the red army would not have coped without US aid. Something Stalin admitted.
However to say Russia didn't play a role is ignorant. Without Russia the war would have a different outcome.

The American food and raw materials were a key factor of course, but it would not have mattered a thing if there were no Russians using it..But hey... That's what allies do when they are fighting a common enemy. They help each other.

No, it isnt ignorant to claim the USSR didnt have a role in the defeat of Germany and have already stated why. It was ignorant to claim that America would never have defeated Germany without the USSR's help. The Brits and the Americans defeated Germany, the USSR just happened to be around at that time, and only because America safe gaurded it.

America and Britain didnt need the USSR's help on anything.

Originally posted by Secularist

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Secularist

 

I didn't say they won because of Russia. I said they won because of the Russian front.

Without it the allies would have faced the overwhelming, battle hardened, well equipped German forces which were fighting the Russians as well.

Victory would be almost, if not completely impossible.

Without the Russians, Germany would have been able to exploit the resources from the Caucasus.
I' m pretty sure my native tongue would have been German if that was the case.

Edit to say that I've read a lot of stuff that suggested the war was already won, and the Japanese were going to capitulate. Although I can not confirm it's true...

edit on 11/27/2010 by Sinter Klaas because:

You implied they had no chance of victory without Russia's "aid" and youre implying that again in your response.

You must have only read the first sentence in my post because I responded to all of what you just said. Again, the Soviet Union had 0 to do with the defeat of Germany. It doesnt matter that Hitler had men in the Soviet Union because without America cornering Japan, the USSR would not have launched an offensive upon the Nazi's retreat from Moscow.

Perhaps you should read a history book that was not printed in the US

WWII involved a lot of different powers fighting for different interests in various regions. It was not some black vs white war like you describe.

First of all, most of Germany's experienced and elite troops were on the Russian Front. The Soviets managed to defeat Hitler's eastern forces and then the Soviets pushed all the way to Berlin while the allies were just making headway into Western Europe after D-Day. It was the Soviets who captured the Reichstag, which effectively ended Nazi control of Germany (and Hitler apparently killed himself soon after).

In fact the American role against Germany and Italy wasn't nearly as great as the role of the Soviets, British or Canadians. Hitler didn't plan on invading Britain, but he bombed the hell out of it to stem their own military capability. The Canadians maintained the largest navy in the world, which was our merchant fleet that brought most of the allied supplies to Europe.

And you speak of Japan. Well guess what? Japan may have been allied with Germany, but it was a separate war. In fact it started off with the Japanese invasion of China where British and Canadian troops supported the Chinese. Then the Japanese wanted Atlantic domination which brought them to war with the US. It's also important to note that while the Americans readied for the invasion of mainland Japan, they were begging Stalin to open up a Japan-Russian front. The Japanese surrender after the nukes ended this prospect.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Originally posted by Secularist

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by Secularist

 

I didn't say they won because of Russia. I said they won because of the Russian front.

Without it the allies would have faced the overwhelming, battle hardened, well equipped German forces which were fighting the Russians as well.

Victory would be almost, if not completely impossible.

Without the Russians, Germany would have been able to exploit the resources from the Caucasus.
I' m pretty sure my native tongue would have been German if that was the case.

Edit to say that I've read a lot of stuff that suggested the war was already won, and the Japanese were going to capitulate. Although I can not confirm it's true...

edit on 11/27/2010 by Sinter Klaas because:

You implied they had no chance of victory without Russia's "aid" and youre implying that again in your response.

You must have only read the first sentence in my post because I responded to all of what you just said. Again, the Soviet Union had 0 to do with the defeat of Germany. It doesnt matter that Hitler had men in the Soviet Union because without America cornering Japan, the USSR would not have launched an offensive upon the Nazi's retreat from Moscow.

Perhaps you should read a history book that was not printed in the US

WWII involved a lot of different powers fighting for different interests in various regions. It was not some black vs white war like you describe.

First of all, most of Germany's experienced and elite troops were on the Russian Front. The Soviets managed to defeat Hitler's eastern forces and then the Soviets pushed all the way to Berlin while the allies were just making headway into Western Europe after D-Day. It was the Soviets who captured the Reichstag, which effectively ended Nazi control of Germany (and Hitler apparently killed himself soon after).

In fact the American role against Germany and Italy wasn't nearly as great as the role of the Soviets, British or Canadians. Hitler didn't plan on invading Britain, but he bombed the hell out of it to stem their own military capability. The Canadians maintained the largest navy in the world, which was our merchant fleet that brought most of the allied supplies to Europe.

And you speak of Japan. Well guess what? Japan may have been allied with Germany, but it was a separate war. In fact it started off with the Japanese invasion of China where British and Canadian troops supported the Chinese. Then the Japanese wanted Atlantic domination which brought them to war with the US. It's also important to note that while the Americans readied for the invasion of mainland Japan, they were begging Stalin to open up a Japan-Russian front. The Japanese surrender after the nukes ended this prospect.

Do you expect me to take this post seriously?

I think the best way to handle this war is by using a branch of the American military that makes them so feared: the Special Forces. We all know that Kim Jong and his son are the problem in this situation, and the two parties truly responsible for instigating all out war on the peninsula. If the USA would just send in the special forces, assassinate Kim Jong and his son, be in and out about it, then this entire nightmare scenario will go away, no huge war will have to be fought, and the two people responsible for it will be good and gone.

That's quite rediculous. You think if Americans assassinate Kim Jong-Il that his people (which also happen to be most of his hard trained military) will say "gee, now we can all be Americanized". Such an assassination would prove American hostility and will create a vital power vacuum in North Korea. Since the US has virtually no influence inside North Korea, who do you think will take the reigns? Military hardliners who will retaliate, causing one of the biggest wars of your lifetime.

This isn't some video game where you kill your bad guy and everything turns out ok. And also, how would American SF carry this out? KGB assassinated the Afghan prime minister in the 70s; they had to parachute 200 Spetsnaz into the presidential palace and it quickly turned into a bloodbath for both sides. Afghanistan at the time barely had any defensive measures either, so how can American SF infiltrate and kill the leader of the world's most militaristic nation? Even if they somehow managed to do it, then the surviving SF operatives would be skinned alive (happened to Spetsnaz by the mujahedin).

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by concernedcitizen519

 

Has anyone seen the relationship between a nuclear explosion and suicide?

I have looked at the two of world's highest suicide rates in the world, Belarus and Japan, guess what, they both had nuclear explosions. 2 nuclear bombs were dropped in Japan, and a nuclear explosion in Belarus which contaminated 99% of Belarus land.

The above being said, if a nuclear war starts, do you think the world suicide rates would sky rocket?

the japanese of some of the most overworked repressed people on earth. and suicide is part of their culture and is used to right wrongs and bring back honor to oneselve and family.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

I think the best way to handle this war is by using a branch of the American military that makes them so feared: the Special Forces. We all know that Kim Jong and his son are the problem in this situation, and the two parties truly responsible for instigating all out war on the peninsula. If the USA would just send in the special forces, assassinate Kim Jong and his son, be in and out about it, then this entire nightmare scenario will go away, no huge war will have to be fought, and the two people responsible for it will be good and gone.

That's quite rediculous. You think if Americans assassinate Kim Jong-Il that his people (which also happen to be most of his hard trained military) will say "gee, now we can all be Americanized". Such an assassination would prove American hostility and will create a vital power vacuum in North Korea. Since the US has virtually no influence inside North Korea, who do you think will take the reigns? Military hardliners who will retaliate, causing one of the biggest wars of your lifetime.

This isn't some video game where you kill your bad guy and everything turns out ok. And also, how would American SF carry this out? KGB assassinated the Afghan prime minister in the 70s; they had to parachute 200 Spetsnaz into the presidential palace and it quickly turned into a bloodbath for both sides. Afghanistan at the time barely had any defensive measures either, so how can American SF infiltrate and kill the leader of the world's most militaristic nation? Even if they somehow managed to do it, then the surviving SF operatives would be skinned alive (happened to Spetsnaz by the mujahedin).

Ive been on this site for a very short amount of time, I think about a week, and in that time every time you pop up you are supporting crazy things like the Nazis and the USSR and Japan during WWII and North Korea and Iran and you dont read posts you read a broad piece of it and then you start off with the same rhetoric, anti-American propaganda. So no offense, but your opinions are about as interesting and welcome to me as a brick is through a window. You believe things totally false and almost everything you just said about WWII was a joke.

"Read a book not printed in America"

So in other words, you want me to read censored publishing's?

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519

Originally posted by Secularist
I think the best way to handle this war is by using a branch of the American military that makes them so feared: the Special Forces. We all know that Kim Jong and his son are the problem in this situation, and the two parties truly responsible for instigating all out war on the peninsula. If the USA would just send in the special forces, assassinate Kim Jong and his son, be in and out about it, then this entire nightmare scenario will go away, no huge war will have to be fought, and the two people responsible for it will be good and gone.

special forces can't even find osama. they'd probably get lost and confused and kill the president of south korea instead.

if there's world war 3 move to south america, it'll be the only surviving continent on the planet. see the powers that be are smart enough to know not to sh-t in your backyard.

s.america will purposely be left alone as a refuge for the criminals that brought on the destruction of the 2/3rds of the world.

and they couldn't have picked a better place. they got great food, great weather and beautiful chicks.

reply to post by Secularist


The USSR just happened to be there? Seriously? You believe that?

I am a fervent believer that without the USSR and the turning of the war at Stalingrad, and subsequently Kursk, that the UK and US would have eventually have had to come to peace talks with Nazi Germany. The Nazis never retreated from Moscow BTW. Stalingrad was the closest they came to the Russian capital. The battles on the Eastern front were the biggest battles in history. Without the Soviets, Nazi Germany would have more than double the resources available for their Western front against the Allies. To claim that Russia had no major impact upon Nazi Germany's defeat may be the most inaccurate statement I have ever read. Remember; it was in fact Zhukov's red army that invaded and took Berlin. Albeit at the deference from Commander Eisenhower. The Russians are the ones who pushed the Nazis thousands of miles all the way back to their capital. Scoring huge defeats every battle along the way. The Germans really had no options for deploying forces to the Western front after D-Day because most of their elite troops were dead from Russian retaliation.

You say that the Nazi regime was defeated prior to Barbarossa. Barbarossa began in the summer of 1941 while Germany was in control of virtually all of mainland Europe. Hell, in 1941 the US wasn't even officially at war with Germany. The Allies (France and UK) had just evacuated 300k troops from Dunkirk a year prior and Germany was at their strongest point. Had Germany not decided to go to war with Russia the war may have had an entirely different outcome altogether. It was in fact Russia, that handed Germany their first major defeat of the war!

I would love to debate this with you further if you like. I can never get enough of this stuff.

reply to post by Secularist

"Read a book not printed in America"

So in other words, you want me to read censored publishing's?

Don't think I am going to stop laughing until next week. Thanks!



Classic!

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519

Originally posted by Jay-morris
I just watched a documentry called countdown to zero. It made me sick that we have all these weapons. What made me more sick was the fact that some of these countries were Praising God when they developed their nuclear bomb!

I believe if we don't get rid of these weapons, then its only a matter of time that these weapons are used in a war, or by terrorists, or by accident.

Can you link me to the documentary? I've been looking for it for over a year now, yes, even before it came out. I'm fascinated by the whole thing and it seems like a must watch video!

I'm about to watch it now !

I'll pm you with more info.

reply to post by Secularist


What if someone worse takes control?

Originally posted by Heyyo_yoyo

Originally posted by concernedcitizen519

Originally posted by Jay-morris
I just watched a documentry called countdown to zero. It made me sick that we have all these weapons. What made me more sick was the fact that some of these countries were Praising God when they developed their nuclear bomb!

I believe if we don't get rid of these weapons, then its only a matter of time that these weapons are used in a war, or by terrorists, or by accident.

Can you link me to the documentary? I've been looking for it for over a year now, yes, even before it came out. I'm fascinated by the whole thing and it seems like a must watch video!

I'm about to watch it now !

I'll pm you with more info.

edit on 29-11-2010 by Heyyo_yoyo because: (no reason given)

Thanks for the link, I actually just seen it a couple days ago thanks to someone earlier who provided a link, but it's a must watch for everyone who's interested in the security of the world and/or this topic! 1 hour and 30 minutes you will not soon forget!

Originally posted by spinalremain
reply to post by Secularist

 

The USSR just happened to be there? Seriously? You believe that?

I am a fervent believer that without the USSR and the turning of the war at Stalingrad, and subsequently Kursk, that the UK and US would have eventually have had to come to peace talks with Nazi Germany. The Nazis never retreated from Moscow BTW. Stalingrad was the closest they came to the Russian capital. The battles on the Eastern front were the biggest battles in history. Without the Soviets, Nazi Germany would have more than double the resources available for their Western front against the Allies. To claim that Russia had no major impact upon Nazi Germany's defeat may be the most inaccurate statement I have ever read. Remember; it was in fact Zhukov's red army that invaded and took Berlin. Albeit at the deference from Commander Eisenhower. The Russians are the ones who pushed the Nazis thousands of miles all the way back to their capital. Scoring huge defeats every battle along the way. The Germans really had no options for deploying forces to the Western front after D-Day because most of their elite troops were dead from Russian retaliation.

You say that the Nazi regime was defeated prior to Barbarossa. Barbarossa began in the summer of 1941 while Germany was in control of virtually all of mainland Europe. Hell, in 1941 the US wasn't even officially at war with Germany. The Allies (France and UK) had just evacuated 300k troops from Dunkirk a year prior and Germany was at their strongest point. Had Germany not decided to go to war with Russia the war may have had an entirely different outcome altogether. It was in fact Russia, that handed Germany their first major defeat of the war!

I would love to debate this with you further if you like. I can never get enough of this stuff.

edit on 27-11-2010 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)

edit on 27-11-2010 by spinalremain because: (no reason given)

You can speculate all you want, but the war was victorious for the Americans and the Brits because of sonar technology.

Dont know how many times I have to repeat myself... Russia didnt have anything to do with it.