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CHINA TELLS AMERICA: Turn Around The USS George Washington

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posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by PuterMan
 


Nice debating you, but your arguments fall short of the mark and I really don't have any more time to waste on Kim Jun iL or American Naval Power. It is obvious you are anti-American, which I can understand, although I don't know why you live in Ireland and not a paradise like China or North Korea.

PS - I hear Ireland is very nice and hope to visit my ancestors home.

Take care friend!




posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


North Korea got it from China, directly or indirectly. If you want to make the argument that North Korea is a puppet of the US ----------------- Go for it!


Make the argument . . . I double dog dare you!!



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by hillbilly4rent
 



But little kimmy wants war machines and men to run them instead of a working export import system.


Hard to work an import/export system when sanctions are preventing you from doing so don't you think? Hard to fish when the best fishing grounds have been taken from you by a one sided decision by the US under the auspicices of the UN.

Hard to operate ports when the boundary runs so close to your coast line. Take a look at the map in this article. Can you see how they could operate ports there? Any way aside from that as I said before, does it not look more reasonable to use the line proposed by NK or maybe some variation, rather than a line that is so tight to their coast?

This boundary is closer to the NK coast than the Isles of Scilly are to England. That in itself is provocation enough.

And just so that you and others understand I am looking at what might be considered reasonable by outsiders and NOT supporting the NK regime.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by mel1962
 



Nice debating you, but your arguments fall short of the mark and I really don't have any more time to waste on Kim Jun iL or American Naval Power. It is obvious you are anti-American, which I can understand, although I don't know why you live in Ireland and not a paradise like China or North Korea.

PS - I hear Ireland is very nice and hope to visit my ancestors home.

Take care friend!


Your answer only indicates that you actually cannot back up anything you have said since you have failed to answer. My 'arguments' do not fall short of any mark as they were observations of a possible view of fairness and not arguments.

Because I have issues with the American Government and the way they handle things does NOT make me anti-American. To suggest such a thing is to suggest that many of the members here are anti-American. It is a leap of nonsensical non-logic that cannot be supported. You also assume that because I live in Ireland that I am Irish (or rather not American). You have no reference point for that.

There is nothing in my posts on this subject to indicate that I consider China or North Korea to be any sort of paradise and once again you are jumping to massive erroneous conclusions based on petulant emotions because your bravado failed.

You also take care. Peace.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


edit on 27/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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reply to post by PuterMan
 





Hard to work an import/export system when sanctions are preventing you from doing so don't you think? Hard to fish when the best fishing grounds have been taken from you by a one sided decision by the US under the auspicices of the UN.


And whos to blame for that



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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China can "say" what ever they want.

They have no legal or morale leg to stand on and they know it.

A sovereign nation, South Korea, invited another sovereign nation, United States of America, to participate in a joint military training exercise that will start in South Korea's waters and extend into international waters.

Unless the US or South Korea actually do something to a Chinese or North Korean vessel, or enter their waters, all they can do is say don't do it.

They will not jepordize billions of dollars in trade for a couple of ships sailing around for a bit.

So take their message for what it is. An attempt to look powerful to those around them, nothing more, nothing less.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by MGriff

Originally posted by Endure

Originally posted by MGriff

Originally posted by Endure

Originally posted by backinblack
reply to post by Endure
 
The major problem with American foreign policy is that they don't think how it will affect those it's implemented on. They have no consideration for anything other than the agenda.


In America its always a debate how it affects other countries. Its taken into consideration greatly when we go to war with somebody. Its usually taken into more consideration then those peoples government that were waging war on.

Look at Americas track record of who it has had wars with - oppressors.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by Endure
 


The above commentor was commentating on the legitimacy of us having war games right outside of a country that we're indirectly threatning right now. I would like to not see us piss off China and NK more than we already have, so maybe we can avoid a nuclear war. I'm so sick of this American "lets just blow them thur asses up, god bless murica!" people who honestly think going in there like a cowboy with guns drawn will disarm the situation. Do you want to be the guy telling the parents of marines about when their children died in the new Korean War?



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 05:04 PM
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reply to post by peck420
 



So take their message for what it is. An attempt to look powerful to those around them, nothing more, nothing less.


One could say the same of the Americans my Canadian friend!



Originally posted by hillbilly4rent

And whos to blame for that


?? The US ?? Not quite sure what you are saying.


edit on 27/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by zcflint05
reply to post by Endure
 


The above commentor was commentating on the legitimacy of us having war games right outside of a country that we're indirectly threatning right now. I would like to not see us piss off China and NK more than we already have, so maybe we can avoid a nuclear war. I'm so sick of this American "lets just blow them thur asses up, god bless murica!" people who honestly think going in there like a cowboy with guns drawn will disarm the situation. Do you want to be the guy telling the parents of marines about when their children died in the new Korean War?


If you are keeping track of the N Korean Nuke threat thread or the N Korea artillery thread ive explained it over there that the US Special Forces should handle this and no major war will have to be fought. I dont agree that we should bomb North Korea for the decision of one menace.

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by detachedindividual
 


I agree with your points except one.


It might not be right or fair considering they started it


This is a matter of opinion depending on when you place the starting point. NK had a boundary forced upon them that is patently unfair and designed to give advantage to SK both militarily and economically. The UN (read US) had no right to impose this on NK. The line that they (NK) say should be the boundary seems reasonable. It is for this reason that the area is disputed and any activity can be seen as provocation by either side.


Originally posted by PuterMan

 



So take their message for what it is. An attempt to look powerful to those around them, nothing more, nothing less.




Originally posted by hillbilly4rent

And whos to blame for that


?? The US ?? Not quite sure what you are saying.


edit on 27/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)


The starting point for everything going on on the Korean Peninsula goes back to June 25th, 1950. That's the day when North Korean troops invaded South Korea. They are to blame for the current geopolitical situation. The North Koreans were the belligerents in the conflict; the UN came to the assistance of the South Koreans. The UN did not impose any kind of boundary to North Korea. The war was halted (not ended) with an armistice, an armistice whose terms were agreed upon by both sides. The border limits were also stated and agreed upon with the armistice. The North Koreans only began to contest the NLL in the 1970's.


North Korea followed the Northern Limit Line (NLL) until 1973, when it started to openly dispute the line.


Northern Limit Line wiki
edit on 27-11-2010 by Crunkman919 because: typo



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 08:42 PM
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reply to post by backinblack
 


To be precise, we gave them help building a nuclear power plant as part of an aid package. I suppose we are evil for that...... For our part of the deal, we demanded that the plant be monitored by UN representatives to assure that the North Koreans did not enrich the spent fuel.

We did not arm them. We have negotiated with them in an attempt to keep peace and encourage the negotiated reunification of the two Korea's, which of course would have to be under the SK system to be acceptable.

Sometimes it amazes me how easy it is for people to judge the U.S. for anything and everything. Your nations are no different fundamentally. It's pure ignorance if you think they are. Read some history about any nation that has held supremacy.

The U.S. has a lot of problems, but relative to the outreach we have made and the responsibilities we have taken on, no more than any of your nations. You just haven't had the same power and influence to run the schemes and cut the deals.

When the supreme influence of the U.S. is replaced, I would be truly shocked if the usurper is any nicer and not shocked at all if they are more heavy handed and brutal than we have been.

In the end, the ill chosen words of George Bush are as honest as any spoken, "Either you are with us, or you're against us".

No nation acts in the favor of another at it's own cost. There is always a deal, always something to benefit from.



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 05:18 AM
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reply to post by Crunkman919
 


You are correct as far as you go but as I said originally it depends what you call the starting point. For example:


The peninsula was governed by the Korean Empire until it was annexed by Japan following the Russo-Japanese War of 1905. It was divided into Soviet and American occupied zones in 1945, following the end of World War II. North Korea refused to participate in a United Nations–supervised election held in the south in 1948, which led to the creation of separate Korean governments for the two occupation zones. Both North and South Korea claimed sovereignty over the Korean Peninsula as a whole, which led to the Korean War of 1950.


Source (Underline by me)

It could be argued that it all started when the peninsula was arbitrarily divided up by the US/Soviets


In a proposal opposed by nearly all Koreans, the United States and the Soviet Union agreed to temporarily occupy the country as a trusteeship with the zone of control demarcated along the 38th parallel.


Source (Underline by me)

Basically I think it is reasonable to suggest that the trouble did not begin in 1950, but in 1945 at the latest and was an arrangement imposed on the Korean people by the United States and the Soviets.


Korea was occupied and declared a Japanese protectorate in the 1905 Eulsa Treaty, and officially annexed in 1910 through the annexation treaty. Japan's involvement in the region began with the 1876 Treaty of Ganghwa during the Joseon Dynasty and increased with the subsequent assassination of Empress Myeongseong (also known as "Queen Min") in 1895. The 1905 and 1910 treaties were eventually declared "null and void" by both Japan and South Korea in 1965.


Source

Indeed it would be reasonable to argue that the trouble started even earlier when Japan decided to annex Korea (remember it was one country at this point) It was known as the Hermit Kingdom.

My point was that you cannot state categorically that the trouble began in 1950. That is too simplistic a view of what was and is a very complex problem. It began long before that - basically in the 1900s when Japan stuck it's nib in where it was not wanted. Later because of rivalry between the Soviets and America the country Korea suffered further and against the will of it's people was split in two. At the time of the split, and possibly even still today, families were marooned on one side of the DMZ or the other.

Because of this split, and the fact that the two regions were influenced by very different ideologies, the initial split has grown bigger and bigger and the direction of the two has developed into a rift that did not exist when others interfered with what was essentially none of their business.

This was started by Japan, and compounded by America and Russia.

One has to wonder what would have happened if the Kingdom of Korea had been return to it's people as a complete nation by the Allies once released from Japanese control. Would we be in the situation we are in today?


edit on 28/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by Fiberx
 


I may be wrong but I believe that the US started to help them with a nuclear plant and then welshed on the deal. As a consequence of that NK continued on and developed it's own capability.

As to the circumstances of why the deal was cancelled I am not 100% sure so I won't comment.


We have negotiated with them in an attempt to keep peace and encourage the negotiated reunification of the two Korea's, which of course would have to be under the SK system to be acceptable.


And that is negotiation?

By the way I do agree that all superior powers are of the same ilk. The Brits were the best at it (after Atilla the Hun
)


edit on 28/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Fiberx
 


By the way I do agree that all superior powers are of the same ilk. The Brits were the best at it (after Atilla the Hun
)


edit on 28/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)


Well with your way of thinking than Hitler, Mussolini & Tojo were the victims of the UK and USA! Interesting . . . you can go on defending cancer ridden dictatorships . . . I prefer to pass and look at the reality of the world . . . save the fantasy that poor little North Korea and side kick China are innocent in this current crisis . . . They are in fact the creater of the current crisis, as I have said before, it's China muscle flexing, nothing more!



posted on Nov, 28 2010 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by PuterMan
 


Maybe the North should have thought twice about invading South Korea then. I always find these arguments funny. If you are going to pick a fight, make damn ure you are able to win it. If you pick the fight and lose, then you have no one else to blame but yourself.

The people of North Korea live in despair and I truely feel sorry for them and I wish we could help them. The obstacle to that help is nothing the US, S. Korea or the UN have done, but the North Korean Government.

Argument aside about how north korea got screwed over, have you actually read the offical North Korean media? It talks about how the "Dear Leaders" are gods, how they invented Golf. and continues down a path of detached reality. The only reason the N. Korean military is as large as it is has nothing to do with S. Korea or the US presence there. It has to do with the ability to eat a few times a week... If a war does break out, I expect the N. Korean army to quickly break down, resulting in mass surrender.

As far as not having an import / export economy, Gee, I wonder why. The bulk of resources the North has, and the remainder that is given to them, is diverted to the Government and Military. N. Korea will not allow NGO's to operate in their country (groups that verify food is going to the people and not being diverted).

North Korea has made their bed... Now they get to lie in it (provided they can scrounge up enough resources to actually fabricate a bed that won't fall apart at the slightest vibration)..



posted on Nov, 29 2010 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by mel1962
 



Well with your way of thinking than Hitler, Mussolini & Tojo were the victims of the UK and USA! Interesting . . . you can go on defending cancer ridden dictatorships . . . I prefer to pass and look at the reality of the world . . . save the fantasy that poor little North Korea and side kick China are innocent in this current crisis . . . They are in fact the creater of the current crisis, as I have said before, it's China muscle flexing, nothing more


I beg your pardon? If you are incapable of reading what a post says kindly refrain from commenting.

Show me exactly where I was defending anyone? Show me where I said they were innocent? Your blind arrogance however does prevent you from looking at history and why this situation came about in the first place. I am not, nor have I ever said, that North Korea is right in what it says or does. All I was looking at was the reasons that this may have come about.

If you chose to see that as some sort of attack on the US then you are mistaken, however you may continue your one sided bigoted view of the world if you wish. I really could not care less what you think if you are not prepared to look at all sides and prefer to toe the party line.


edit on 29/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 01:22 AM
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Originally posted by Endure


Yes, very biased. Biased against those who defend murderous dictatorships like they are the best thing since Pringles. Why aren't you all flocking to these places like NK to live again?


Why aren't you flocking to Saudi Arabia since US helps protect its murderous dictatorship, not to mention Egypt, Afghanistan, Iraq...



posted on Dec, 2 2010 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by PuterMan
reply to post by Fiberx
 




We have negotiated with them in an attempt to keep peace and encourage the negotiated reunification of the two Korea's, which of course would have to be under the SK system to be acceptable.


And that is negotiation?

By the way I do agree that all superior powers are of the same ilk. The Brits were the best at it (after Atilla the Hun
)


edit on 28/11/2010 by PuterMan because: (no reason given)



Well, to be fair, no one on Earth, other than the highest echelon of NK leaders themselves, thinks that giving NK control over the South is a good idea.


It's harsh I guess, but it's either do nothing, give a prosperous SK to a bunch of imbeciles or get rid of the imbeciles and feed the citizens of NK...

Seems like a no brainer that only two are reasonable in any way and since one of them involves continue the insanity of the current situation (or worse) I think we'd have to go with the progressive choice. I bet well over 6 billion Earthlings would agree!



posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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reply to post by Fiberx
 



Seems like a no brainer that only two are reasonable in any way and since one of them involves continue the insanity of the current situation (or worse) I think we'd have to go with the progressive choice. I bet well over 6 billion Earthlings would agree!


Don't get me wrong, I don't think NK should be in charge of the peninsula! Nether should / will SK for the simple reason that China would never countenance an American satellite right on it's border.

No one wants to 'escape' to NK, many would wish to 'escape' to SK.



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