Clinton talks to China about Wikileaks release

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posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.

It's not suppression, its accountability for the potential aftermath that I am addressing.






The responsibility for the aftermath lies, not with those who reveal truth but with those who lied in the first place.

As an example ... The responsibility for any consequences from revealing a diplomatic cable that contains lies, deception, or insult falls squarely on the person(s) telling the lies, deceiving, or insulting.

The truth can only have consequences when people lie, cheat, act illegally or dishonorably. Don't want the consequences, don't behave in that manner, then complain when you're found out

To put it simply ... don't shoot the messenger, for the consequences of the revealed impropriety, blame those who created the message.

Personally I think this whole culture of government secrecy, and hiding any potential embarrassment under the flag of 'National Security' has to end. Perhaps Wikileaks is the beginning of that end.




posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by NoAngel2u
 


And the last time a 'journalist' had world governments supposedly on the run was when?

Again, it is scope, scale and hype.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.
 


So what you're saying is that when two people are handing out food for charity and the first person does it quietly and the second person does it with a lot of media attention, the second person should not hand out anything at all? I think the recipients of that aid would strongly disagree with that. Who cares why Assange does what he does (basically relaying information passed to him by whistleblowers)? Maybe he's in it so he gets to bang young women? Maybe it's vanity? Maybe he has a bone to pick with tptb? Maybe it's entirely altruistic? I don't know and I don't care.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Originally posted by Dagar

The responsibility for the aftermath lies, not with those who reveal truth but with those who lied in the first place.


Thank you

To think otherwise, then we would have to hold accountable anyone in a court of law testifying to the truth of matters that may cause rioting, or some other unrest.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by NoAngel2u
reply to post by the_denv
 


Would you mind please telling me the best program to download the files. I have downloaded them and all I come up with is an empty file.


What files? The insurance file, or the I2P and/or Peerblocker files? If its the insurance files, then the guy that replied to you was correct, you can't open them until you got the key. The program to open them is OpenSSL, and the best operating system to use would be Linux in my honest opinion. Most distro's have OpenSSL in the system already.

I can't understand why people in ATS, of all places (a conspiracy den) are still talking about Julian Assange. Come on folks! Julian himself said he is the faceman of the many nodes of journalist groups (Not just Wikileaks), there has to be a face. It's not the Assange show for us, that is for the media/gov/mil to talk about, we are more mature to know Julian is the face, and all the interesting stuff goes on in the background.

EDIT: And all those crying about the aftermath, ...I assume prior to Wikileaks you were and still think your a truth seeker, crying all over the Internet and making YouTube videos squealing for the truth to be told, then when it is you all cry about what may happen after the truth is out.

The Truth is OUT THERE! Now, let's look to the positive side of this.
edit on 27/11/2010 by the_denv because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by Dagar

Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.

It's not suppression, its accountability for the potential aftermath that I am addressing.






The responsibility for the aftermath lies, not with those who reveal truth but with those who lied in the first place.

As an example ... The responsibility for any consequences from revealing a diplomatic cable that contains lies, deception, or insult falls squarely on the person(s) telling the lies, deceiving, or insulting.

The truth can only have consequences when people lie, cheat, act illegally or dishonorably. Don't want the consequences, don't behave in that manner, then complain when you're found out

To put it simply ... don't shoot the messenger, for the consequences of the revealed impropriety, blame those who created the message.

Personally I think this whole culture of government secrecy, and hiding any potential embarrassment under the flag of 'National Security' has to end. Perhaps Wikileaks is the beginning of that end.



A good post, IMO.

I would argue that it is accurate completely but only philosophically . And in my opinion, this matter could very quickly leave the debate floor and enter the very real potentially bad consequences floor.

I may know John has a weak heart, but tell him his wife was cheating on him anyway. Directly causing the heart attack that kills him. A philosophical debate and beside the point, of course. But John is just as dead. Philosophy be damned.

In other words, it is not very important who starts the damage once it is in motion. And right now, if he is to be believed, it is Assange and his people that presumably have information they themselves describe as history changing....that scale should not be accountability free.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by Clark Savage Jr.
 


the new world order can never be on the run ...so there to powerful ?

The past is the past ...the future has yet been seen



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by the_denv
 


Supposedly Der Spiegel will be publishing the information for release on Sunday at 24:30.

WikiLeaks Central

I was sure hoping to see it released before then. I will be at work.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by the_denv

What files? The insurance file, or the I2P and/or Peerblocker files? If its the insurance files, then the guy that replied to you was correct, you can't open them until you got the key. The program to open them is OpenSSL, and the best operating system to use would be Linux in my honest opinion. Most distro's have OpenSSL in the system already.


The insurance file. I'm not concerned with hiding, I can't even get it downloaded. I'll worry about opening them up and what I need for that after I get the file downloaded first. I click the tab to download, and it does, but it's an empty file.

I partitioned my hard drive a few months ago and put ubuntu on it. I haven't used it since. lol Keep telling myself I will. Perhaps now is a good time to do that. lol

But seriously, I should be able to get the thing downloaded even on vista.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:19 PM
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I haven't read all the comments yet, but the first thought that came to my mind regarding these upcoming leaks, and why the USA would need to talk with China about any of this...

Could it be???

That governments of the world know something this way comes, whether its a meteor hitting the Atlantic Ocean, possible pole flip… or some other end of the world nonsense we've heard so much about these many months, and that information is about to be released. Now that will set ATS ablaze!

Or perhaps those leaks show the world that America has been purposely destroying the world economies to destroy the economic power gained by China/Russia?

I really can't get past those two concepts. Who the hell cares what China thinks about these leaks, why would our Country feel compelled to warn all of Europe, and now Asia regarding these leaks, if they only refer to our two recent wars and USA/NATO's conduct... Obviously there is something in those leaks that our country is afraid of, whether it has to do with International outrage, or a secret so vast only the leaders of every country on Earth truly know anything about. And these leaks are about to alert all us lowly slaves, none of us have been chosen to survive, so the governments of the world need to alert there protectorate (militaries) to help save the elites because the world is about to go nucking futs.

Whatever the truth is, it appears we won't have long to wait.

--Charles Marcello
edit on 27-11-2010 by littlebunny because: spelling and to add another sentence



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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So, this is rather interesting...

The WL Central site posted this:



Der Spiegel has posted a Q&A about the 'Embassy Files' release. Among the details:

Included are 251,287 cables and 8,000 diplomatic directives

One cable dates back to 1966, but most are newer than 2004

9,005 documents date from the first two months of 2010

Der Spiegel, The New York Times, The Guardian, Le Monde and El País have had access to the files and reviewed them.

None of the documents are classified 'Top Secret', but only 'Secret' at the highest clssification rating. This was also confirmed by Politico's White House correspondent Mike Allen on Twitter, quoting the US administration. According to Der Spiegel, just over half of the cables are not subject to classification, 40.5 percent are classified as "confidential" and only six percent or 15,652 dispatches as "secret." 2.5 million U.S. employees have access to SIPRNET material, where these cables originated.


They are only referencing about 260,000 documents. There are nearly 3 mil documents in question. ??? I suppose another bit of mystery.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:22 PM
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edit on 11/27/1010 by NoAngel2u because: I really hate it when I dbl post. No idea how that happens.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by Soshh
reply to post by wcitizen
 


I understand that you would want to oust or embarrass or in some way damage people that you would regard as being evil or deceitful etc, who wouldn’t? The problem is that if anyone is damaged or embarrassed or worse, the vast majority will be perfectly ordinary people who have done nothing wrong.

A few, very bad people damaged at the expense of a great many more innocent ones, where have we heard that before? Would you not choose to avoid the possibility of that happening (again) if you could? If the bad guys are targeted effectively and negative consequences are minimised or eliminated, then good times, but I doubt that will be the case.


Your question presumes that I agree with your premise, which I don't. The majority of ordinary people of the world - not just US - are suffering terribly already. That suffering will get exponentially worse if these criminals aren't stopped.

The truth about the crimes being committed AGAINST the ordinary people of the world is what is needed to derail this train. I do not see any reason why exposing the truth about the crimes would not lead to the bad guys being targeted effectively. They won't go down quitely, IMO, but that is the price we all must be prepared to face for having allowed them to abuse their power for so long. Without evidence, how in the world do you think they could be targeted?

That is my opinion. I respect that you may not agree.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by Clark Savage Jr.

I may know John has a weak heart, but tell him his wife was cheating on him anyway. Directly causing the heart attack that kills him. A philosophical debate and beside the point, of course. But John is just as dead. Philosophy be damned.



I don't agree with your analogy. See, if I knew John's wife was cheating on him, I may choose not to tell him. However, if John is a drug-dealing cop peddling drugs to the neighbourhood kids, I wouldn't think twice about turning him in. If that's impossible because his cop buddies protect him, I would still try to expose him in the media. If he has a heart condition, he should have thought about that before committing a crime.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by NoAngel2u
 


Yeah I saw that, don't worry about it Spiegel is only part of the wider picture. Yeah there are over 3 million files to be released. This time tomorrow night everyone will have them a couple of hours or so.


Here is the torrent link: Insurance File.

In order to use that file, you need a torrent program like Utorrent. If your using Vista then click here to start the download of UTorrent.

Once you have Utorrent installed, you can then double click on the Insurance file, add it to your torrent list. Make sure your port is opened for port forwarding on UTorrent. Make sure that within the window, at the bottom center there is a green tick and not an exclamation point /!\.

If you have trouble with setting up port forwarding or the connection in general, click here.

If your partition of Ubuntu is messed up, just download Backtrack 4 r 2, it has openssl in it already, burn the ISO to disk.

Once the insurance file is downloaded, transfer immediately to an external hard drive.
Insert the copy of Backtrack you just burned onto DVD into your dvd-rom tray. Restart your computer, and once Backtrack is loaded up, insert the ex-drive and mount it. Once you have mounted your drive, go to the location of where the insurance file is, then type: openssl enc -d -bf -in insurance.aes256 > out.dec

It will prompt you for the password to decrypt it, but nobody has it, only certain WL staff members do. It will be 40 characters in length.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by SLAYER69
 
Slayer...great thread...wondering if one of the leaks spilled has criticism of Israel and of Saudi Arabia? We are so unpopular in the world that we can't afford to alienate Israel, its the only nation the world hates worse than us...only now it might be we will win last place!



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 10:12 PM
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Originally posted by the_denv
reply to post by windwaker
 


Use I2P or Peerblock to disguise your IP when downloading a torrent.

Tonight or tomorrow the files are meant to be released, its Sunday [AM//GMT] here. I have a feeling the files will be released any time soon, around the next few hours (-10hours or so). Can't wait to get my teeth sank into them.

Wikileaks - First Intelligence Agency of the People!


I am a bit worried about the D-level though, but this is a test folks; if we shut up now and don't help make those files go viral, and research them to find things out and expose them - then all is lost. Finally we the people get to play ball and I don't mean fragging rags!


I'm going to let you guys figure this one out. Be careful. Maybe we should let the media handle this.

Some secrets are so big, you can't keep them to yourself. Do you really want to have something that big floating around in your brain? You won't be able to help yourself but to tell people, and shout it out in the streets.

I let trained professionals make the judgment regarding what to tell the public. They've been trained all of their adult lives to do so. Someone will speak up.



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by the_denv
 



Ty sooooo very much!



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69


Ok as per my other thread I asked these basic questions regarding the wikileaks. Seems something major is about to break stay tuned.

I have to ask myself this....

Who would have the most to gain by releasing the info?

1. Some geeky internet do gooders?

2. The Republicans trying to drag the present administration across the coals even though it has exposed other actions by the previous administration?

3. China or Russia or both in an attempt to expose what goes on in back room maneuvers in order to put the US in a bad light?


Also I haven't read anybody thus far bring up the very real possibility that by Wiki releasing this information that it could possibly not only expose US wrong doing but also expose some rather embarrassing information about...

US/Chinese/Russian/_____



posted on Nov, 27 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by SLAYER69
 


Or maybe it's just the release of various every day cables from one country to another that usually involves some sensitive data. I've lost a lot of faith in Wikileaks, much of what they have provided lately is far less incriminating than their old stuff and more importantly they seem to be focused on the wars stuff and they have forgotten much of the corporate exposure they used to throw out. They managed to cause major trouble for a number of banks with their releases but this sort of stuff has been less important to them it seems.



People seem to forget that Wikileaks can only provide information which has been provided to them. If the information you want isn't provided to them by a source willing to take the risk of leaking it, you ain't gonna get it.





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