North Korea at brink of war

reply to post by Gakus

Exactly, where in this article does it state they shelled NK? It doesn't, as a matter of fact the only thing it says is they shelled the ocean in DISPUTED waters. I'm still failing to see the logic in your post, than again I doubt it contains any.

Thats what the South pretends, do you actually believe it? If you do, well you either don't know much about history, or you just blindly hate on the North. I'm not saying the N. Korea is innocent, just saying this time they did start the incident...

Also, who do you blame for the death of nearly 45 Korea sailors early this year?

North Korea said the South provoked the Tuesday attack because shells from a South Korean military drill landed in the North's waters.

Forgot to add this fresh info.

CNN

1 hour left before the exercises begin...

I think the key word that must be taken into consideration when viewing this thread is: PROPAGANDA.

Now, I haven't a clue what's really going on down there, but I have a strong feeling that nobody in this thread does either.

reply to post by unityemissions


You are right. The tensions are so high no one has any idea what might happen, or what has really happened...

reply to post by MrAtomicspace

The South held military drills during which they were firing shells at the disputed border (sounds fishy). Im guessing that at least a shell or two could have gone over and sparked the North to attack.

www.armybase.us...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Thursday, 21 March, 2002, 13:20 GMT
Anger over Korea military exercise

The US and South Korea have launched major military exercises, in a move condemned by North Korea as a declaration of war.

Thousands of troops are involved in the week-long exercise, which will simulate a conflict with the communist North.

"The exercises began this morning (Thursday) in various locations throughout the Republic of Korea," said a US military official.

South Korea and the US have said the drills are purely defensive - but they come at a time of increased tension with the North.

The government in Pyongyang is furious at being labelled part of an "axis of evil" by US President George W Bush.

It said the drills were preparations to launch a "nuclear holocaust" on the Korean peninsula, following recent news reports that the US was prepared to use nuclear weapons against seven countries, including North Korea.

Emphasis of the date, my own.

The RoK has been holding joint military exercises and internal military exercises for a long time. There is nothing exemplary about this one.

North Korea can fire at any given time into the country and cite just about any event that happened within the past week as the cause - some trade deal South Korea signed with another country, some military drill or another, etc.

There is nothing wholesome or good about North Korea. This isn't a football game where we get to sit back and cheer for someone based on the underdog principle. The outcome has real consequences that the Sunday Football generation doesn't seem to get.

You don't get to wake up in a new world every day - the past happened. You can't just decide to start looking at the relationship between North Korea and South Korea these past few weeks and make a judgment call. Take a look back 50+ years and see what kind of insanity North Korea really is.

I realize everyone likes conspiracies and drama - but, really, it's to the point where people cannot separate fiction from reality. A building catches on fire and burns to the ground and it suddenly becomes a mystery as to why wood would burn - videos of the windows busting would lead to explanations involving sonic-disruptor cannons and everything else under the sun as part of some shadow-government plot to get you to switch to another insurance company.

This is to the point where people are unable to accept reality, at all. It's one thing to entertain conspiracy theories and out-of-the-box thinking. It's called pathological when you can't differentiate between mental musings and reality.

reply to post by Aim64C


I am not judging who is at fault here, and I am also very much aware of the history between these two sibling nations. Its just a game of interests being played out.

But I can assure you that in this case the North was provoked and their response cannot be tolerated anymore, since they even sunk a S.Korean warship just this year.

reply to post by MrAtomicspace

Thats what the South pretends, do you actually believe it? If you do, well you either don't know much about history, or you just blindly hate on the North. I'm not saying the N. Korea is innocent, just saying this time they did start the incident...

I can see how shelling an inhabited island is a reasonable response to artillery shells landing in water you lay claim to.

It also does not make any sense to call it provocation.

reply to post by Aim64C

I can see how shelling an inhabited island is a reasonable response to artillery shells landing in water you lay claim to. It also does not make any sense to call it provocation.

I did not say it was a reasonable response.
And of course the South did not provoke, they were playing target practise on the border...

The US must understand that N. Korea is not Iraq, Panama, or Granada. The US got its ass kicked in Vietnam and doesn’t do well with the South Asians in wars.

The N. Koreans fought them to a standstill before, with the help of China, this time they won't do any worse, believe me.

Bottom line, N. Korea likely will defeat America in a war.

reply to post by inforeal


"The US must understand that N. Korea is not Iraq, Panama, or Granada. The US got its ass kicked in Vietnam and doesn’t do well with the South Asians in wars"

How little you seem to know about the Vietnam "policing action".
America won every single major engagement during the vietnam.

It wasnt a war that was meant to be "won".
Just to be fought.

If it was to be won,dont you think the U.S would have invaded and bombed the North back into the stone age?
But there was a policy in place to defend the south,but NOT go into the north.

Vietnam was more about a war to be prolonged for profit.
Just look at the connections between LBJ and the company that made all the Huey choppers.

All that being said,should a war break out between the U.S and North Korea,it would be a mess.
It would cost many of thousands of lives,if not millions.
The U.S more than has the capablillity to win that wore if they took the gloves off.

But thats a door we all need to hope not to open.

reply to post by Black_Fox


I am afraid your analysis is wrong.

The North Vietnamese would have slaughtered America if they had invaded because they didn’t fear loosing millions of people in the war. The US on the other hand would have taken too many casualties in which the US populace wouldn’t stand for.

In fact, though they did bomb Vietnam almost back to the Stone Age, but it didn’t work because of the resiliency of the Vietnamese.

Also, the US couldn’t just drop a Nuclear Bomb on Vietnam nor do certain things because of Russia and China, not because they were loosing the war on purpose.

As for America taking their gloves off.

If they did China and Russia can also take their gloves off
And then what?


The US like Mao always said is a paper tiger!

reply to post by inforeal


"In fact, though they did bomb Vietnam almost back to the Stone Age, but it didn’t work because of the resiliency of the Vietnamese."

Ummm,no.

Go look at where the "war" was fought.
In the south,there were policies in place that prevented the U.S going into the north.

Once we began bombing campaigns in the North,they moved quickly to the table.
But at no point in the war,did the U.S fight in the North.

And did you also ever notice,no matter how many hills or valleys we took,we "gave" them back.

A paper tiger the U.S is not,stop being foolish.

And IF the U.S/Russia/China took the gloves off?
Thats easy,we all lose.

And we wont be furthering our discussions here on ATS.

Originally posted by inforeal
The US must understand that N. Korea is not Iraq, Panama, or Granada. The US got its ass kicked in Vietnam and doesn’t do well with the South Asians in wars.

The N. Koreans fought them to a standstill before, with the help of China, this time they won't do any worse, believe me.

Bottom line, N. Korea likely will defeat America in a war.

North Korea got raped in the first war by the Allies. It was not until the Chinese entered the war that their was a turn around, and then there was a stand off and the country was divided between the communists, funded by the USSR, and democracy, funded by the USA. It was a horrific war, yes, but should we go to war again it would be a very different war and China would most likely not involve itself like it did the last time. The only reason it got involved the last time was because they feared the Allies would invade communist China as well.

China will try to solve this diplomatically but I dont think if things turn to war they would bother with it now being the government that they are now.

Originally posted by Gakus

Originally posted by MrAtomicspace
reply to post by Secularist

 

Well, I say youre completely wrong. NK bombed SK. What do you call that? Fun?

If you were to refere to the fist incident of this week, it was clearly stated by all medias that S.Korea was firing artillery rounds at the border prior to the North's attack.

According to whom?

The Blog site you visit?

You are 100% wrong, get over it.

According to: the New York Times, the News Daily, the D&C, the China Daily, the Xinhu News, the Moscow Times, CNN, the BBC, and a dozen other news sources around the world?

Sorry, you are 100% wrong. Get over it.

Originally posted by unityemissions

Originally posted by MrAtomicspace
reply to post by Secularist

 

Well, I say youre completely wrong. NK bombed SK. What do you call that? Fun?

If you were to refere to the fist incident of this week, it was clearly stated by all medias that S.Korea was firing artillery rounds at the border prior to the North's attack.

Okay I haven't kept up with this whole ordeal, so don't bite my head off, but I've just got a question here.

Was it that SK was firing artilery rounds AT the border, or near the border? Also, wasn't this just a military exercise of some sort? Also, wasn't this thing done several times in the past without any confrontations?

I could be wrong, but this was my understanding of the matter.

Some RoK artillery rounds landed over the line in the waters near the DPRK during drill exercises and so Kim Jong fired on a civilian populated island in SK as a repercussion, killing 4 and wounding 15. That means NK is at fault here.

Not to mention that this is the same NK rhetoric and should be dealt with.

Originally posted by Brothers
It was said that China doesn't want a unified Korea because they are afraid of their borders being manned by American Soldiers. Well If America said that we wouldn't be in their border and just let South Korea and Japan fight North Korea and unify it I am sure that China might agree. China just has to make sure that refugees just don't cross into China. I am sure it could be worked out. Let the poor people of North Korea stop suffering.

Let's be real here. If the Koreas were unified under one flag preferably the Souths then there would be no more need for US forces in Korea. China which is not capitalist would have a friendly capitalist trading partner on their southern border not an economic black hole.

As far as the question of Korean refugees. Have you researched just how large of a problem China has presently with North Koreans crossing the border into China already in search of a better life and jobs?

Originally posted by inforeal
In fact, though they did bomb Vietnam almost back to the Stone Age, but it didn’t work because of the resiliency of the Vietnamese.

Are you aware that the US took a hands off approach to the North the Majority of the conflict and didn't really significantly start bombing the North until Nixon tried to end the war at the Paris peace talks? Ever hear of the 24/7 non stop B-52 Christmas bombing? North Vietnam which was mostly untouched refused to negotiate a peace settlement at the Paris peace talks.

It wasn't until Nixon took the gloves off and bombed the crap out of them that within 24 hrs after the bombings that Hanoi sent a message to Paris to agree to American terms so the US could get the hell out back int 1973. It took the North Vietnam a full two years to recover from that attack to be able to launch a full scale invasion of South Vietnam in 1975.

Read all about it the history is available online or a book store/library near you.

The US like Mao always said is a paper tiger!

And Mao was a real tiger?
Slaughtered millions of his own people during the cultural revolution eh?

reply to post by Black_Fox


Go look at where the "war" was fought.
In the south,there were policies in place that prevented the U.S going into the north.

Once we began bombing campaigns in the North,they moved quickly to the table.
But at no point in the war,did the U.S fight in the North.

Indeed the American people would have gone mad if they went into N. Vietnam because the Americans would have been slaughtered.

And did you also ever notice,no matter how many hills or valleys we took,we "gave" them back.

They gave those hills back because the North Vietnamese and the Southern guerrillas took them back!

A paper tiger the U.S is not,stop being foolish.

America hasn’t beat a real power since WWII, just small countries.


And IF the U.S/Russia/China took the gloves off?
Thats easy,we all lose.

That’s my point. The US cant go around just doing what they want to do to weak countries since Russia and China also have nuclear bombs that can blow the US into oblivion.

And we wont be furthering our discussions here on ATS.

The major powers today are so closely economically connected that if war was to break out, which now seems to be very unlikely, neither China, Russia, nor any other major power would go against the US.

We need to realize that we are living in a different period at the moment, where money is given priority. Imagine if the US and China fought, where would all the brands such as Nike, Addidas, Samsung, HP, Apple, etc etc... go to for cheap labour?? We are undergoing globalization..

The only thing that will happen here is that alot of sailors will get drunk and alot of prostitution will go on from the locals trying to make a buck, any way that they can.