US Gun Statistics

Originally posted by budaruskie
reply to post by Equinox99

 

If poverty was the only thing that caused crime, then how do you explain the FED, Mafia, Bernie Madoff, the list goes on for miles.

That is a topic of its own.

I assumed we were talking about gun crimes and not greed or power. Because that deserves a topic of its own.

reply to post by Equinox99


There are numerous solutions to the crime problems:

- Repeal all victimless crimes and release everyone from prison who has been convicted of one.

That in turn frees up prison space for your violent criminals, who in turn should receive much harsher sentences for their crimes.

- Seal up the borders using the military, thereby keeping a large number of criminals out of the country.

The less time cops spend arresting people for bs crimes, the more time they have to focus on investigating serious crimes.

The list goes on and on.

You mistakenly believe that crime doesnt happen in affluent areas. It sure as hell does.

You claim you want to alleviate poverty, yet you didnt specify how you plan to fund that solution. Why not?

Keep in mind we have a Constitution here. None of my money, or my neighbors should be taken by government and redistributed to another person simply because they are poor/irresponsible/made terrible choices, etc etc etc .

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by Equinox99

 

There are numerous solutions to the crime problems:

- Repeal all victimless crimes and release everyone from prison who has been convicted of one.

That in turn frees up prison space for your violent criminals, who in turn should receive much harsher sentences for their crimes.

- Seal up the borders using the military, thereby keeping a large number of criminals out of the country.

The less time cops spend arresting people for bs crimes, the more time they have to focus on investigating

The list goes on and on.

Agreed.

You mistakenly believe that crime doesnt happen in affluent areas. It sure as hell does.

Can you point out where I said that? Which areas have more crime? Do you really want me to go into providing statistics on how poverty stricken areas have more crime than rich areas?

I know crime happens everywhere but less crime happens in areas that have strong communities and more money.

If you want proof I will do the research and provide it for you but it will take a little time. If you want I can U2U you when I get the information together.

You claim you want to alleviate poverty, yet you didnt specify how you plan to fund that solution. Why not?

Keep in mind we have a Constitution here. None of my money, or my neighbors should be taken by government and redistributed to another person simply because they are poor/irresponsible/made terrible choices, etc etc etc .

With all the money we use to battle the war on drugs, the 2 wars, and all the money being spent on dumb government programs and agents. But it is a bit late now since the economy is in the toilet. If we did that when we had a surplus we wouldn't be in as much mess.

I would also suggest investigations in fraud committed by senators and people on Wall st. Treat fraud with the same manner as drug seller, seizing all assets and redistributing them.

I am in no way suggesting redistributing wealth.

And your ignorant comment about poor/irresponsible/terrible choices is just that, ignorant.

I have done plenty of research on poverty and it isn't like they all made bad choices. Some have been bamboozled by scum like madoff, some retired as the market started to inflate so they didn't have enough money, some lost their jobs because of the economy, and etc.

Not everyone made dumb choices like you think.

reply to post by Equinox99


I think its a noble thing to contemplate how we can improve ourselves and society with the reduction and ultimate elimination of crime as a goal. You said that you were trying to provide a solution to the gun violence problem, but your solution is based upon something impossible (elimination of handguns) becoming possible, which obviously weakens your solution. If you really want to come up with a solution, you should start by throwing out all of the impossible ones first, and go from there. Otherwise, my solution is to train pets to unload, dismantle, and destroy all handguns.

external image

This would give one the impression that all guns are Illegal.

Just got one mesage for them!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bd665bf54731.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by budaruskie
reply to post by Equinox99

 

I think its a noble thing to contemplate how we can improve ourselves and society with the reduction and ultimate elimination of crime as a goal. You said that you were trying to provide a solution to the gun violence problem, but your solution is based upon something impossible (elimination of handguns) becoming possible, which obviously weakens your solution. If you really want to come up with a solution, you should start by throwing out all of the impossible ones first, and go from there. Otherwise, my solution is to train pets to unload, dismantle, and destroy all handguns.

But see your opinion has a conflict of interest. If you own a handgun obviously you will see it in a way where it hinders your ability to let go of the handgun.

It isn't impossible, it is easier than that.

1. Shut down handgun producers
2. Offer incentives for people to anonymously to drop off handguns
3. Any illegal handgun get taken off the market

I don't care for guns at all. I don't care if you own one. All I care about is statistics. Statistics indicate that handguns cause too much damage and they are easy to attain in the black market. That is initially the problem. If it is easier to get a handgun than a job....there is something very wrong in our society.

reply to post by Equinox99


Well...statistically speaking you're more likely to die from tobacco use, heart disease, or even a car wreck than a stray bullet from a handgun. Plus, the fact that I own a handgun is not what is making me dismiss this as impossible. Its actually my belief that someone somewhere will have to have a gun at least to make sure that nobody steals one before it gets melted, and I don't trust him! Because face it, if you were the only one in the country with access to those weapons you'd have to deal with your own greed. Some people might melt every single gun down to the one in their hand, but the vast majority would recognize, seize, and abuse the power those guns took from their rightful owners.

reply to post by budaruskie


Well let us agree to disagree.

But I understand where you are coming from because humanity is greedy. And there will always be crime, but I am not sure making more guns will help us in the long run.

G'day.

reply to post by Equinox99


Since you are all about statistics, if the stats show guns are used more to defend rather than attack, by your previous statements, you would support handgun ownership then correct?

reply to post by Equinox99


Guns can keep sh*t like this from happening




That could be you, but if you've got a gun you stand a much better chance. Or, if I have a gun and I see your life in danger you might stand a better chance.

the homicide rate with handguns in the US is very misleading.

Although the term homicide is sometimes used synonymously with murder, homicide is broader in scope than murder. Murder is a form of criminal homicide; other forms of homicide might not constitute criminal acts. These homicides are regarded as justified or excusable. For example, individuals may, in a necessary act of Self-Defense, kill a person who threatens them with death or serious injury,

the homicide rate with handguns in the US covers.
police shooting criminals
homeowner shooting burglars.
homeowners shooting criminals.
security guards shooting criminals.
people with CCWs shooting criminals.
i have no problem with any of those shootings.

I don't even have a problem with criminals shooting criminals.
I think there should be areas set aside for criminals and rival gang members to have there shootouts free from prosecution
These people can go into the area blast away at each other and walk out or be collected by the coroner.
We could even loan them full-auto weapons and rig the area with remote operated cameras and do them as a pay per view sports event to pay the cost of the areas.

The anti gun government records do not separate justified homicide from criminal homicide for the reason they want to numbers high.

Handguns are not as dangerous as the government would like you to believe.
In fact most criminal can't hit the side of a barn with a hand gun. this can be seen by the numbers of gang shooting where there are 30+ empty casing on the ground and one person hit.
It has something to do with criminal playing cool and holding there guns sideways when they shoot.

When i was a EMT we got calls to respond to gang shooting where there were over 60 rounds fired by gang members and found that no one was hit.

I just wanted to add something to this discourse even though it appears the logic of gun ownership has already chased off the fantasyland beliefs of the folks on here with a fear of what they don't understand.

All of the back and forth you all did here in the name of reason and logic about carrying any type of weapon in the name of protecting yourself from the common criminal is really moot.

I carry weapons for one reason: to protect myself and my family from the tyranny of oppressive government. That is why we have a second ammendment and that is why there is not meant to be a limitation on the type of weapons you carry (Do government's limit what they can carry?).

Every government in all of historry has eventually overstepped it's boundaries. It is only a matter of time. And anyone who thinks that the government or their goons have any interest in protecting you instead of taking advantage of you or hurting you, need to seriously reconsider your logic because you have been brainwashed.

Fear has been engrained by the government; people have an unnatural and grandiose fear of guns and gun owners. It is a phobia caused by a propaganda machine. It makes as much sense as being petrified of being hit by lightining, or being eaten by a shark, or by a grand piano falling on you, or dare I say, attacked by a terrorist!

It's their game to make the things you have no real experience with, things that could help you retain or really, achieve your own freedom for the first time, be things you irrationally fear.

It is a nice fantasy to think of a world with no guns, where no one hurts one another, but that is NOT reality. Reality is that the governments of the world exist on your backs, They know if you have a real means to defend yourself and be free, eventually you will. So they instill irrational fear via propaganda.

I will say lastly though, that I will do all you who wish for no more guns a solid and this is it: the very day that the governments of the world (you know the ones that work for us?) lay down their guns, I will do the same.

Until then, it is time to reconsider why and where your fear of guns is rooted. Do you really want to be in a position where you have no real means of defending yourself against the biggest group of criminals, murderers, and oppressors in the history of mankind (not common criminals but governments for those who are dense)?

I'll play idiots advocate here.

Say Im a magic genie and tonight while you sleep I get rid of all the handguns and because of me nobody ever tries to create another "handgun" ever again.

The #1 thing is gone. Equinox is happy.

Well, what happened to #2?

All Equinox wanted was the #1 thing gone. Will he be in here tomorrow railing against the new #1 or is the new #1 only causing an acceptable amount of death for him?

reply to post by Equinox99


If he had that many guns in his pants, the first step he took, his pants would be on the floor. Have you ever carried the average hand gun? When loaded they are quite heavy. The guns he pulls out would add another 50lbs to his belt line.

You know what, you guys are absolutely right. It is about protecting ourselves from tyranny. I'm sorry but if you guys don't have the balls to stand up when your rights are being trampled on than I don't think you stand a chance against the government, at all.

Is that why all these little gangsters carry around their pistols? To protect themselves from a tyrannical government or to have something mobile?

You guys realize that a lot of nations have rioted without the need for handguns to make their stand. Governments can be toppled without the need to carry 8-10 handguns.

Let me ask you this, what have you guys done to keep the government from trampling on your constitution? Where were you guys with your handguns when most of the public refused to go to war with Iraq? Did you take to the streets with your handguns?

No, because handguns will have no place in our future society, mark my words. Whether you think it is impeding on your rights or not. there is absolutely no need for handguns. Nothing you can't do with rifles and shotguns.

And if you can't carry a shotgun or rifle than you shouldn't be fighting the war at all.

reply to post by Equinox99


Wait a minute. How much of this opinion of yours is genuine and how much of it is fueled by some confused Canadian jingoism coupled with a bit of penis envy toward America?

It's just such an irrational position so full of logical inconsistencies that I must conclude you are either lying about what you believe to hide some other position such as pro complete firearm prohibition or you're trying to cinvince yourself that being prohibited handguns in Canada is a tolerable if not righteous thing.

reply to post by Trueman


Maybe we should be taking our rifles with us when we visit the doctors???

I know more than one nurse I'd like to show my guns too

reply to post by Equinox99


You ignored my previous question.

Since you claim you are all about statistics, if I were to show you plenty of stats showing handguns are used more to defend than attack, you would support handgun ownership right?

Of course you wouldnt. You simply have an irrational fear of an inanimate object.

Well, I hate to admit it but I was wrong. I was thinking about it all day and I did a bit of research and I jumped the gun. I apologize guys! I hope you can forgive me. (Not being sarcastic).

Originally posted by Equinox99
Well, I hate to admit it but I was wrong. I was thinking about it all day and I did a bit of research and I jumped the gun. I apologize guys! I hope you can forgive me. (Not being sarcastic).

That was manly, no joke. You've got my respect. FWIW I'm VERY pro 2nd Amendment and enjoyed reading your posts.