South Korean defence minister resigns

reply to post by GoalPoster


He should probably be given a medal. If this is true he may have known that a Southern shell crossed over and hit the North. Perhaps he was trying to keep the peace and not escalate things into a full blown war which I would imagine many people in the west secretly want.

Logic to me would suggest the south accidentally fired upon the North and said commander took the fall. Had he have not known why the shelling was happening he would be more likely to return fire in full force.

Originally posted by Soshh
It may be part of a policy of zero tolerance towards actions conducted by North Korea, perhaps his replacement will be a little more extreme. It may also be related to his comments about a review into the return of US tactical nukes made the day before the artillery exchange, which some could perceive as having prompted the strike by North Korea.

Or perhaps it is just meant to look as if he was removed from his post because of an unsatisfactory response. It’s likely to be a message to Pyongyang in some shape or form.

Yep just the standard fall guy responce, ohhh better watch out for this new guy shuffle boy. The truth is the old guy was probably on the phone franticaly trying to get approval for an air strike.

The US pulling up some ships in the area really makes SK look punk even though they are saying it was part of a regular deployment.

Maybe this will be a thing of slow escalation. This sort of thing has many advantages for the aggressor. It may look like carrot and stick but its really a meathod geared to get the US to sell out and/or help it understand all the consequence by small doses of aggresion on several fronts.

America has really got its self into a fix this time. Evertime you think of all those capitalist/socialist whores that moved op to China over the last 20 years because thier oun countrymen were such a burden....spit on the ground.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
I recall the news in the UK last night was that South Korean papers were openly criticizing their government for being weak.
It seems that even those in Seoul believe their government should have launched an all-out retaliatory attack against numerous NK positions.

They could have just limmited the retaliation to the guns doing the shelling. What was it a ship? Just sink the dang thing or staff it.

Here's what I see as the biggest problem . . . the hue and cry to take action against North Korea for this incident is loud and clear within the South Korean community. Who wouldn't be a bit pissed if their country was bombed, especially when civilians are targetted.

Maybe the Defense Minister wanted to respond. The South Koreans actually have a 'manual' that spells out the response to incidents such as this and it goes something like if they hit us with 100 rockets, we strike back with 200.

Kim explained the current operational manual calls for retaliatory attacks of up to double the firepower employed by the enemy, using the equivalent weapons to those used by the enemy

Source

But, given that nobody knows exactly what the hell North Korea will do next with repsect to a response and given the fact they've got nuclear capabilities, South Korea is probably quite gunshy when it comes to actually pulling the trigger on a response.

So, the Defense Minister and the Defense Ministry in general are taking a whipping over their 'tepid' response, meanwhile they're probably on 'stand down' orders, so their hands are tied.

Thus the resignation.

Originally posted by theRhenn
The impression I got when all this went down was, Obama wasnt all that much into doing anything about it. Days later, he's "looking into it" and wants to assure the protection of S.Korea. We're sending an aircraft carrier now, probably because the US people are asking "what the hell man? We just gonna sit here and say Dont Do That!?" No wonder the guy resigned. No one is backing him up. Some allies we are! Regan and Dubya woulda been on the first flight out. Hell, Dubya would delivered the first tactical. "whats this button do.. heh heh heh.. Look daddy, I shot a missle!".

I kinda feel like the US has gotten wimpy over the years. Are we really that afraid of the rest of the worlds opinion?

Wimpy or thoughtful? Do we really have the manpower to take on another theater? And what happens if and when China gets P.O.d that we're messing with their pet pitbull? And what if we do get into it with NK? Would that not leave the U.S. more vulnerable? And, do you think that might be the point? Maybe the plan is to start a world war and those of you saying Dubya would have jumped right in here, are toting the company plan, hook, line and sinker. Do you think the world will tolerate us nuking anyone? What will be the consequenses of that? I'd say a lot of innocent people will die, oh, but the economy will improve! Would you be ok if your 18 year old son gets drafted next year, and dies in a viscious war, because the next war will have a lot more casualties, but he did his service?
That's what I mean by thoughtful.

Originally posted by SunnyDee

Originally posted by theRhenn
The impression I got when all this went down was, Obama wasnt all that much into doing anything about it. Days later, he's "looking into it" and wants to assure the protection of S.Korea. We're sending an aircraft carrier now, probably because the US people are asking "what the hell man? We just gonna sit here and say Dont Do That!?" No wonder the guy resigned. No one is backing him up. Some allies we are! Regan and Dubya woulda been on the first flight out. Hell, Dubya would delivered the first tactical. "whats this button do.. heh heh heh.. Look daddy, I shot a missle!".

I kinda feel like the US has gotten wimpy over the years. Are we really that afraid of the rest of the worlds opinion?

Wimpy or thoughtful? Do we really have the manpower to take on another theater? And what happens if and when China gets P.O.d that we're messing with their pet pitbull? And what if we do get into it with NK? Would that not leave the U.S. more vulnerable? And, do you think that might be the point? Maybe the plan is to start a world war and those of you saying Dubya would have jumped right in here, are toting the company plan, hook, line and sinker. Do you think the world will tolerate us nuking anyone? What will be the consequenses of that? I'd say a lot of innocent people will die, oh, but the economy will improve! Would you be ok if your 18 year old son gets drafted next year, and dies in a viscious war, because the next war will have a lot more casualties, but he did his service?
That's what I mean by thoughtful.

Thoughtful, I dunno. I dont think so in the way that we seem to be letting our guard down, we throw off the important issues and fight for things that we shouldnt be fighting for. Aside from oil, Iraq was nessissary, but thats my opinion and nothing more. Did it make matters worse? Perhaps but some good has come out of it, sadly so did alot of horrible issues also came from it. I feel that we are spreading ourselves thin, yet in this day and age it's a catch 22. I think we had to do it, but no matter how it was handled, it was a no win cituation. The question I cant answer is, will something good come from it 20 years down the road. We made it possible for a loose democracy, but at what expence and whos. Trust me, I dont agree with what Dubya did in one hand, but I honestly believe it had to be done.

Wether we have the ability to jump into another war isnt the real issue. There is so much taking place with such a HUGE enemy (not simply one country, many countries, but one entity) that it probably doesnt matter anymore. War seems inevitable in any case. We as a country strive to do whats right but we seem to make alot of mistakes doing it. It's a nessissary evil, with a very high cost. Often, as we have seen over the last century, we jump into things for the sake of humanity, but at the same time, what we've done can be seen in an evil light just as well. Kinda like saying, we're damned if we do, we're damned if we dont. You make alot of valid points, actually all of the questions are very valid points. I've always seen that whatever we do, whatever we decide, in the end, it will be the same. Either we stand up for our rights and the rights of those around the world (unfortunatly through our own eyes), or we back down and show the world that we arnt going to get involved. We cant afford this, the lives of those people in Nkorea as well as Skorea cant afford it either. But to do nothing at all seems to be just as deadly for those people because they will fight reguardless. It's the perverbial chip on the shoulder that will always be b/w those countries, so long as there is freedom for one and socialism for the other.

I dont suggest we nuke anyone. In that, I was more less laughing at the possibilities of what dubya might do cause I admit, that guy was pretty daft. I cant deny that some good did come out of him, just very feebly. That kind of trouble can do no good for anyone. I think sides are taken and alot of under the table dealings have been going on for a very long time that we have no control over. I feel that Russia and China had this setup going a long time ago. It just seemed that way. It's one of those things that you can look at from all the joined wargames and all the talks that those countries had together years ago thats only now playing out. I dont think it's a war we could win, at least not without a ton of casualties, but once again... Is it a nessissary action that we should get involved? I think so. I think we have to. Either way, I dont like the possible outcome no matter wether we try to talk either korea out of this because I feel that it will only prolong the inevitable, but only a very short time, or if we take action. If we take action, I think it will be just like it was all those years ago. It'll be yet another stalemate. North Korea has proven before that they can dig in and endure just as the Taliban has done. But to allow madmen to run amuck is possibly just as insane as dropping a nuke on them.

A little more about tacticle nukes. Russia is pushing us to let go of our nuclear program. We know this by the talks between our countries. Yet, what the media does not speak about is the weapons that Russia is taking hold of. I dont know if anyone realises this but Russia no longer needs nukes. They have perfected a weapon that causes the exact same damage as a nuke, same power, same destruction, but no fallout, because it is not nuclear. It's basicly a vacume bomb. It will cause the same destruction but as it doesnt use nuclear materials, it only kills life and buildings. Its nothing more than a standard explosion made massive by causing another explosion within the main explosion. Heh, I think I seen an example of this, loosly, in a nick cage movie. As simple as it sounds, it's VERY destructive. This is what Russia is adding to their arsenal. We could use the same technology as it's not a secret.

To be honest, I dont want to see any wars anywhere. But this power struggle that's seemingly going on world wide, what can ya do? Talking them down does not work. Thats basicly saying "look guys, we will give you this if you dont blow anything up". We're allowing countries to build nuclear facilities left and right because we either cant do anything about it or we for some reason think it's a good idea to have nutty dictators with that kinda power in their hands. Personaly, I think we should allow assassinations again and keep taking them out secretly untill someone gets the point. Though, even that can cause the same kind of backlash. Yet, once again, what can we do? It's a hopeless cituation getting worse day by day. The world powers are as unstable as they were at the dawn of WWII.

so, south korea attacks, then gets attacked and they get pissed?

good to know

lets be real, north korea attack's was a response ...

reply to post by Faiol


'
I dont think S Korea attacked. They did fire in a fire free zone I think it was.. which was their bad. Though, they didnt fire at anything or anyone. It was manuevers that we were supposed to be a part of but for some reason we just happen to not be there on that day. NKorea retaliated by shelling occupied targets killing 4 people and injuring more. Cant say that the south didnt provoke it in some maner, but not to that extreem. They didnt do what Nkorea hadnt been doing all this time. The north were doing this very thing months ago by firing off in this same zone to show their strength because they didnt like the souths war games with the US.

As 'tin foil' as this is going to sound, the more I read, the more I think this is a scripted action to deal with an ongoing issue . . . one you might not think about straight up while the Koreas lob grenades at each other . . .

The underlying issue here seems to be that North Korea has The Bomb and that makes a whack of people in the general neighborhood a bit nervous. Each time the North and South do this tit-for-tat tango, the story always ends up as 'they've got the bomb and we're afraid they'll use it.'

So if there's some fabricated sort of scripted worked up issue were to happen to show that a rogue leader of a nation can hold the world hostage with a few nukes, that sure would bolster the case for dealing with any other country that threatened to become 'nuclear armed'.

Like Iran.

I'm takin' off the foil now!

The BBC is reporting he resigned for criticism that the ROE were too weak. Apparently they have new rules now which requires a response "2-3 times greater" in retaliation for any future attacks of this kind..

The South Korean broadcaster, KBS, said the new rules called for the South to fire back "with shots two to three times more powerful than the enemy artillery".

North Korea meanwhile threatened further military action if the South continued on its "path of military provocation", the official KCNA news agency reported.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by stumason
The BBC is reporting he resigned for criticism that the ROE were too weak. Apparently they have new rules now which requires a response "2-3 times greater" in retaliation for any future attacks of this kind..

The South Korean broadcaster, KBS, said the new rules called for the South to fire back "with shots two to three times more powerful than the enemy artillery".

North Korea meanwhile threatened further military action if the South continued on its "path of military provocation", the official KCNA news agency reported.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Well these new exercises were ordered in response to this new indecent. My bet is some surgical strike are now on and the Defense minister was not for it. B-2s and our subs would lay that tiny country to waste and they wouldn't know what hit them. If lil baby Kim wants to be ubber stupid he will try this again and get his arse handed to him on a silver plater.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
I recall the news in the UK last night was that South Korean papers were openly criticizing their government for being weak.
It seems that even those in Seoul believe their government should have launched an all-out retaliatory attack against numerous NK positions.

I have to say that I agree. Much like our financial crisis, it's akin to ripping off a plaster. It hurts less the quicker it's done. Allowing it to escalate gradually will give more time for NK to do damage to various areas of the South.

I really do think that SK should have attacked every known NK military installation capable of hitting them hard. And they should have done it immediately.

So South Korea is under pressure from other Countries to make a military response to them getting their bum whipped the other day?

I don't know anybody that wouldn't support this, North Korea needs a good hide beating to teach them a lesson.

If any other Country in the World launched an attack like this, there would have been a response, no questions asked!

If South Korea did this to the North, not the other way around like last Tuesday, North Korea would be jumping up and down like drug crazed spiders and I'm sure they would have hit back.

So South Korea gets torpedoed earlier this year and now this and they have done nothing. The word Pussies comes to mind and I bet millions of other people are thinking the same.

As the US is "supposed" to be on their side and have also done absolutely nothing, it's made the US look like muppets too!

Oh dear, a can of worms has been opened and it needs to have the lid put back on, quick!

I think we're all forgetting something!

North Kore has, yes, tested two Nukes, underground.

But they have no means of actually delivering them to another country (SK) via missiles.

Yes, they have missiles, when they work!

But they need to minaturise (make smaller, spelling) the technology to make the nuke bit fit and work inside the end of a missile.

I am not aware they have done this or are anywhere near doing it yet.

Unless Iran has been in cahoots with them?

It's unbelievable the ammount of hatred that i see in these topics about the NK/SK conflict. It appears to me that some people here really want to see humans killing each other.

The Minister of Defense decided not to retaliate, saving, by doing this, many human lifes and probably avoiding, for now, an all out war, and he is considered a "pussy"? The "tin foil" theory it's not that far from reality, in my opinion. They took him out to put someone else more trigger happy.

Both countries did mistakes in this conflict. It's not only NK that is the bad guy here. SK could have avoided all this problem by not doing it's drills near a disputed area. And NK could have a little more patience, and should have tried to reach an agreement between both countries. Every history has two sides, and many people are looking to only one side of it.

The so-called democratic countries are waging war and killing inocent people everyday around the planet, and when a country like NK respondes to a (as the NK has called) provocation like this one, they are the 'Evil" in the world?

This is just a political show that is done for the people in South Korea , it is said that it is South Korea that fire the first.

South Korea names new Defense Minister

. . . former South Korean Joint Chief of Staff chair and career military man . . .

To me, this sends a pretty strong message that the South Korean response to any further North Korean activity will be swift and decisive.

Things are starting to slide downhill . . . and I don't think I'm the only one . . .

Philippine army ready for possible repatriation of Filipinos in S. Korea Phillipine army ready for possible repatriation of Filipinos in South Korea

Originally posted by Canslli
It's unbelievable the ammount of hatred that i see in these topics about the NK/SK conflict. It appears to me that some people here really want to see humans killing each other.

You're talking to the same species that created the Colosseum and contact sports. Of course we want to see human beings killing each other.

It has nothing to do with hatred, though. I can kill you and not hate you. It is pretty simple - North Korea has repeatedly antagonized its neighbor in an attempt to prompt 'peace talks' whereby North Korea is paid off. South Korea is getting tired of it. This time around, North Korea killed civilians - that's not sitting well with the people of the South.

There can be no hatred between North and South Korea. They are family. The only hatred that could be said to exist is the hatred for the divide and corruption of the North. But family or not - you can't functionally live with someone lobbing artillery shells over the border at you to satisfy their own internal political strength. Send them a political statement by turning that precious stadium of theirs into a pile of rubble. They will either realize they are a little big for their britches, or be shown. One or the other.

The Minister of Defense decided not to retaliate, saving, by doing this, many human lifes and probably avoiding, for now, an all out war, and he is considered a "pussy"? The "tin foil" theory it's not that far from reality, in my opinion. They took him out to put someone else more trigger happy.

This didn't save lives anymore than the Armistice saved lives by bringing an end to the war. Fifty years from now, if these countries are still in a similar state, thousands of people will have died in "small" skirmishes "that, due to cool heads, saved thousands from dying in an all-out war." It's high time that little stand-off was settled.

Both countries did mistakes in this conflict. It's not only NK that is the bad guy here. SK could have avoided all this problem by not doing it's drills near a disputed area. And NK could have a little more patience, and should have tried to reach an agreement between both countries. Every history has two sides, and many people are looking to only one side of it.

There is no "other side" of it. South Korea has had military drills in the area since the "end" of the Korean war. It is nothing new. This type of behavior from North Korea is nothing new, either. They blow up some ordnance or fire a few rounds off at a ship, the U.N. starts talks, North Korea gets some food and supplies if they promise to stop being a pain in the ass. Rinse, Lather, Repeat. Now - they were stupid enough to shoot at an inhabited area. It has nothing to do with South Korea's actions, and everything to do with North Korea's established pattern of delinquent behavior.

The so-called democratic countries are waging war and killing inocent people everyday around the planet, and when a country like NK respondes to a (as the NK has called) provocation like this one, they are the 'Evil" in the world?

Yes, they are. You are free to believe the U.S. is evil all you want to. Everything has its mix of good and bad. North Korea, however, is skimping on the good - and are pretty much all bad. It's not really the fault of the people - they are willing pawns to megalomaniacs, brought up in a world where they know nothing else. But that is reality, "poor, innocent, manipulated people" or not - they are pretty damned intent on killing our allies (and us by proxy), and have to be dealt with accordingly.

You are free to see the world in shades of gray and even color if you want. However, your decision has to be go/no-go, black/white, etc. You can't "kinda sorta" respond to this. You either do, or you don't. You either lay down the law and tell them where to get off the train, or don't. Commit to a response/solution and make it. Floating around in "let's see" land gets people killed.