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Public Religious Displays

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posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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I cant imagine how horrible it must be to walk around in daily life being offended about darned near everything. Im too worried about doing whats right in my own life to be overly concerned about everyone else's.

My political mind and religious mind agree. I dont worship santa, frosty, rudolph, I dont recognize jewish symbols, most christian symbols, etc, but I sure am not wasting my life crying about what other people want to do or what my town spent its money on ( freaking 7K on santa and wreaths for main street but the nativity, kwanza and menorah displays are donated). CHRISTmas is a religious holiday regardless of its pagan symboism ( tree, wreath, etc) just like easter. Its a christian thing.. dont like it? Dont celebrate it. but dont dare tell anyone how they choose to see it or celebrate it. Constitutionally you dont have a leg to stand on regardless of the court nonsense. My life isnt ruled by courts and the legal system that has mutated into something completely UNamerican. Go make up an atheist holiday and celebrate it.. christmas is a made up holiday for christians and not a holy day anyway.

The atheists involved in it made a bad move ridiculing christianity/religion at large and did themselves a disservice. If something with just a little bit of class and not a childish diatribe was erected no one would have had an issue with it and it would have been legally protected. Id have been the first one in line screaming for it to remain there even as a christian, but more so as an American.

FOr me, even as a christian, its always and will always be happy turkey day and happy gimme-presents-day. For me, christ or god have nothing to do with either.The paid holidays and goodies arent too shabby either!




posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I wasnt aware that atheists had sacred symbols? Isnt that in contradiction of what atheism is? And since when have christians eradicated atheists?

Where do you get your information? or do you just make it up as you go along?



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I wasnt aware that atheists had sacred symbols? Isnt that in contradiction of what atheism is? And since when have christians eradicated atheists?

Where do you get your information? or do you just make it up as you go along?


Today's pagan is generally classified as an atheist, as they worship the earth, not a god. But since you need it simplified...

You're correct, I should have said agnostics.

Care to touch on the actual subjects I posted? Or just wanna dance around them a little.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


No? Ok, I'll explain further-

Christmas is not a christian holiday. It was the pagan tradition on Yule long before Christianity was around. When the christians decided pagans were a competition of power, they decided to wage war, on an entire religion.

After time many pagan traditions were adopted into christianity to make it seem more acceptable for pagans to choose conversion over death. What are now called easter, christmas, halloween, groundhogs day(came later), May Day, and others all began as ritualistic pagan 'holidays' (for lack of a better word).

Does it make sense yet, why some may be offended?



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Brood
 


1. America was founded under people who believed in God, of many different faiths..


"Our forefathers!"

Thank you for your contribution of typical propaganda.

I don't care what "Our forefathers!" believed in religiously. This country is based on freedom from religion just as much as it is based on freedom of religion. The affliction of the Church on the government in that era was exactly what this form of government was set up to counter.


2. How do they show any favor towards Christianity? Because they DONT have any Muslim symbols up anywhere near courthouses on Christmas? Weird..........I wonder why...


People that have that provocation about Islam have the same provocation about Christianity. The government should not be supporting either of them. I now see the kind of person I am arguing with... really... I get it, it's okay as long as it's not bothering you. Personally it doesn't really bother me, but the people who do argue against it have good points, and in this country they have every right to question when a government building endorses a particular religion for any purposes. Get over it, "whiny".


3. Of course they dont want Muslim laws in the United States, Sharia law is an oppressive and unjust system, unless you favor the raping of women and stoning to death of people.....


What is a Muslim law? Muslim = human being. Islam = religion. It is, however, more accurate the way you said it; Sharia Law as represented by government entities fails hard. That doesn't represent Islam, though; it represents how hard religion and government unity fails. And lets not forget the congress of the Church and government failed just as hard. It has nothing to do with the religion itself, but the idiots who let it affect laws.


I think people are delusional about religion and spend too much of their time getting offended, I also think this favoritism to christianity that people complain about is a bunk, because really they have nothing else to compare it to, other than the systems over seas.


Christianity is responsible for so much genocide in history it is absolutely unfathomable. You're right, it is absolutely uncomparable... as an outlet for hate and murder.


That being said, i dont favor any one religion, im a spiritualist, and I think people too much time and effort in being angry over the whole religious issue............THEY are the problems, not the religions, except the ones who are oppressive.


The only people getting angry are the ones who are overly defensive about the government representing a single religion.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


I did touch on the subject you posted, you said ATHEIST and we were talking about ATHEISTS not agnostics or pagans..........

Atheist was the subject matter, dont try to turn it in a different direction to facilitate your own talking points or obfuscate the point.....

You asked a question and I answered it lol I was correct in my answer.........moving on.....



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by Brood
 


Your whole thread was full of your own atheist talking points and propaganda..........the only people getting UPSET are the atheist and the people who have such thin skin , that they have to have something to complain about.

The atheist in this country push an agenda far harder than any religious group in the United States......so much so that you could almost call the atheist here in the country part of their own "religious" order.....

Their objective is to take ANYTHING religious and turn it into something socially unacceptable , so that THEY are not offended.......

Once again...........grow a pair.......people who are so offended by such things dont need to be coddled , they need to buck up.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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If there is a religion in America thats getting special treatment
its not Christianity its islam, its minorities that are given most
attention not majorities. Its ok to offend Christians but no...
cant offend the muslims.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 

You answered nothing, and I gladly changed my wording to apease the simple minded. So please, answer me, does it make sense why some agnostics, or atheists, would get offended by these displays after what I just told you?

And for the record, no, having symbolism is not the opposite of atheism. Seems many around here have a very skewed grasp on what atheism is.


I'll be waiting for your reply.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Brood
 


Your whole thread was full of your own atheist talking points and propaganda..........the only people getting UPSET are the atheist and the people who have such thin skin , that they have to have something to complain about.

The atheist in this country push an agenda far harder than any religious group in the United States......so much so that you could almost call the atheist here in the country part of their own "religious" order.....

Their objective is to take ANYTHING religious and turn it into something socially unacceptable , so that THEY are not offended.......

Once again...........grow a pair.......people who are so offended by such things dont need to be coddled , they need to buck up.


Oh, please. I'm not the one directing all of my arguments directly at people here instead of the topic at hand. "Stop whining, grow a pair". This is your revelation of knowledge to us? Your arguments are drippingly ad hominem and I refuse to argue with someone so juvenile, regardless of how much you rally support from holy zombies and ignore the good points that the opposition brings to the table.

Practice what you preach. Or are you too "spiritual" for that?

Tell me why the government should support Christian holidays or check out.

The only people whining here are the ones saying "Oh noes! The government can't uphold my religion and tout it at public buildings that are supposed to represent the government -- as an entity separate from any religious belief. NOT FAIR
"
edit on 25-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by Brood
 





The only people whining here are the ones saying "Oh noes! The government can't uphold my religion and tout it at public buildings that are supposed to represent the government -- as an entity separate from any religious belief. NOT FAIR "


Once again your logic is failing again...

IF they were saying that and complaining.......then it would only be, because the thin skinned individuals COMPLAINING about religious displays...........cause and effect.......they cant "whine" if someone wasnt trying to take religion out of everything.........get it? its pretty simple.....cause and effect......

You proved my point......



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


What does one have to do with the other? The OP was concerned about rights and the govt abiding to a standard.

Let's see...which is more disturbing?...strip searches of grand ma or an 8 yr old boy...or a fake nativity scene?

Which is more disturbing? Police with no search warrents putting GPS devices on your car...or a fake nativity scene?

Which is more disturbing? SWAT teams and FDA agents storming an Amish Dairy Farm at sunrise for selling fresh milk...or a fake nativity scene?

Yup, you are right...I find a plastic light up manger with a plastic baby celebrating the birth of a god that many do not even believe in far more disturbing than the resurrection of Nazi Germany here in America.... glad you have your priorities straight. My apologies.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by ManBehindTheMask
 


That's not a point, it's a scientific fact... congratulations for proving something that nobody argued against in the first place. Unfrtunately it falls way short of an argument. And please, let's lay off on the self flattery; you're not exactly one to be going around telling people when their logic fails.

Your logic would imply: "The Jews could have escaped the Holocaust; if they just renounced their faith, they wouldn't be provoking anyone. It's the Jews' fault." Or "The Japanese could have prevented Hiroshima, if they didn't live in Japan where hierarchy decided to bomb Pearl Harbor against Japanese public knowledge". Of course, it's completely true that it can be avoided by them, but that doesn't mean that they are the ones responsible.

Now, since A=B, B=C, A=C arguments have become so foreign to the surface-thinking community, allow me to break this down into the areas you could be arguing if you disagree:

A. Separation of Church and State has been, and is, regularly practiced by the government to support the freedom of religion and freedom from religion outlined in the Constitution and/or Bill of Rights to support a society secular to that controlled by religious groups.

B. A government building such as a courthouse represents the government.

C. Decorations for single religious holidays show support for a single religion.

D. Call everyone whiny and maintain a seriously immodest stance on logic and spirituality.

One of these things is not like the other...

...Got logic?
edit on 25-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by Annee
 


What does one have to do with the other? The OP was concerned about rights and the govt abiding to a standard.

Let's see...which is more disturbing?...strip searches of grand ma or an 8 yr old boy...or a fake nativity scene?

Which is more disturbing? Police with no search warrents putting GPS devices on your car...or a fake nativity scene?

Which is more disturbing? SWAT teams and FDA agents storming an Amish Dairy Farm at sunrise for selling fresh milk...or a fake nativity scene?

Yup, you are right...I find a plastic light up manger with a plastic baby celebrating the birth of a god that many do not even believe in far more disturbing than the resurrection of Nazi Germany here in America.... glad you have your priorities straight. My apologies.


There are lots of disturbing things in the world.

However - - the OP specified a nativity scene on public land.

My priorities are just fine - - as in sticking to subject - - - not reaching beyond it.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 10:17 PM
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I am always stunned by arguments on this topic. Why would any American be so enthusiastic about using the Constitution against another American? Why the desire to have dominance over another, because their beliefs differ from yours? Why is your "right" to not practice a given religion more important than another's "right" to do so?

As for the legal arguments, the words are very simple...


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

For a moment, forget about what the bastardized, politicized, partisan SCOTUS has had to say on the matter. Relying only on your own common sense and conscience, answer the following questions. Does the placement of any religious symbol on public property, constitute establishment of that religion? Does the public display of a Nativity scene "set up or found" Christianity as THE religion of all Americans? Does it cause Christianity to be "recognized and accepted" by all who happen to gaze upon it? Does the placing of a cross, at the site of a person's death in a highway accident, "prove the validity or truth of" Christianity? Does it "make a state institution of" Christianity? www.thefreedictionary.com...

The answer to each of these is a resounding NO.

...or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...

When the "government" uses the force of the judicial branch to cause the removal of religious symbols from public property, is it "prohibiting the free exercise" of a religion? Be honest now... YES

or abridging the freedom of speech...

Without a doubt, forcing the removal of religious symbols is "abridging the freedom of speech" of another American. It is impossible to righteously be an advocate for free speech, while desiring to limit speech with which you do not agree.

The arbitrary substitution of the word "from" in place of the word "of" is bewildering, as well. I find it a little more than just significant that it is only used in the context of the religious freedoms. "I have the right to freedom from religion". Really? How does one infer that?

Would it be equally acceptable for one person to invoke their right to freedom "from" your speech, because they don't like what you are saying? What about being free "from" having their normal route of travel inhibited by your peaceable assembly, in a public place? Maybe your neighbor should be allowed to be "free from" having firearms next door, in your home.

So to answer the question in the OP... Maybe you need to seriously consider a deeper introspection and answer that question for yourself. What freedoms do you hold dear, that you would not want others to infringe? Remember, your forcing the issue will, without a doubt, affect others.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


How is allowing Christmas celebration imposing on the rights of other religions?



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by JaxonRoberts
 


Actually I think it was the catholics that hijacked the pagan festivals and called them their own.

edit on 11/25/2010 by The Endtime Warrior because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 26 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


How is allowing Christmas celebration imposing on the rights of other religions?


Its not, so long as other religions are allowed to celebrate theirs as well.



posted on Nov, 26 2010 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 


Who is saying they can't?



posted on Nov, 26 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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I'm going to outright state that nobody gives a damn if you want to decorate personal property; this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with what government buildings support. The government is supposed to be neutral.

People who keep bringing up freedom of speech... have zero credibility as far as I am concerned. Freedom is a freedom for the people to say what is on their mind, not for the government to establish a religion.

edit on 26-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)




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