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The NWO False Flag Fallacy

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posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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It is only right to start this thread by explaining my views on the most famous of alleged false flag operations, 9/11. My views on this are effectively that I do not believe the official explanation however I am yet to find a concise conspiracy that offers a more inclusive explanation. I also accept that there enough unanswered questions, coincidence and expert views that point to the possibility of 9/11 being a false flag operation and there are some very good theories (which I don’t subscribe to) that “the 9/11 operation” was conducted by the NWO. However the main point of this thread is not to discuss my views on 9/11.

The point of this thread is to discuss what I view as the massive over use of the terms “false flag” and “New World Order” within our conspiracy literature. It seems that with almost every major world event that occurs at some point a large number of people will automatically dismiss all the evidence, media reports and even other conspiracy theories and accept that the event was a false flag operation conducted by the NWO. To me it appears that the line “this is another false flag operation by the NWO” has become the default theory people jump at with in only a few hours of a particular event taking place.

These theories have a number of problems; firstly they assume the existence of the NWO and their capability to manipulate world events on such a grand scale that they could cause such devastating damage. Then they assume that the NWO are so influential that they can cover the whole thing up without any leaks. By far the biggest problem as I see things is the lack of evidence that a false flag has occurred it is always based on the idea that the NWO would have a motivation to cause an event like 9/11 or the oil spill to happen because it is in their best interests. This idea opens up another problem as it assumes that we know what the objectives of the NWO are which are mainly negative and to bring about some form of world domination. This again assumes their existence but also that if they do exist that they then have unscrupulous motives, who says they don’t want to help us all out (if they exist)?.

By automatically assuming a false flag or NWO involvement in any event we are also possibly neglecting the evidence or suggestions that some other group is responsible as part of a different conspiracy. This in turn, in my view, only feeds ignorance, not every major event could possibly be a false flag operation with the NWO sitting at the top of an ivory tower pulling the strings. Sometimes bad thing just happen, it does not mean that by default that the NWO were behind it or that it was a false flag. Sometimes there could be a genuinely explosive conspiracy theory waiting to be cracked open by the collective genus that is ATS, however we all fail to pick up on it because we are all too preoccupied looking in the wrong direction at the NWO false flag theory. I would argue that this is the worst kind of disinformation, that is to day depriving ourselves of this information by not examining all possible avenues for an alternative explanation to an event.

It seems to that we have all became obsessed with finding the next 9/11 conspiracy, we are like heroin addicts looking for a bigger high than the one before. As a result we spend so much time looking for evidence of a NWO false flag operation that we might be missing out on some other less explosive but equally important and complex theory. It is also true and worth pointing out that the NWO false flag theories are probably not the only distractions so too are the predictions, UFO photos and threads discussing random episodes of the Simpsons.

In short I think we need to get back to doing what we do best, denying ignorance, and we can only do that by getting over this need for the massive explosive conspiracy’s, get our feet back on the ground. If we are all to busy looking for the next 9/11 or discussing what someone has predicted in the future then spending days analysing a fussy photo of a floating bin lid we are going to miss something very important.




posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:08 PM
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I applaud you sir!


Great OP and I have to agree with you. I often feel as though there is a rush for someone to claim the epic, 'it has begun thread' as in WW3, disclosure or apocalypse. I of course am no exception to this and I often get caught in the fanfare too.

But it is good to take a step back and view it all objectively with feet firmly on the ground. I wonder how many terrorists and psychopaths are pissed off because their greatest achievements have been blamed on others?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:32 PM
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I agree with what you have said. That said, I want to mention my view of the 9/11 conspiracy. I believe a small group, only those very close to the president and high up in the CIA, knew that bin Laden was planning an attack, and specifically that he was going to fly planes into the twin towers and WTC7, and the pentagon. It is proven that they did know an attack was imminent(some presidential memo that I forgot its name). Knowing this, they decided to place explosives in the buildings because the knew a plane wouldn't be able to take them down. They left some documents in those buildings and in the pentagon that they wanted no one to see. BOOM, documents gone, a reason to invade Afghanistan is placed on their lap, and if any of their citizens try to repeat the attack it would fail miserably. One thing happened that they didn't expect. One or two passengers heading towards WTC7 rebelled, despite all of the governments psychological warfare to not rebel. "Uh oh, there's a building standing with some incriminating documents AND explosives in it. Back up plan: detonate." Or the fire actually spread enough to the center of the building to ignite the explosives. But these people aren't dumb, they probably had a backup plan so that they could detonate them in case things went wrong somehow, which they did.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


dude the last 2000+ years have been a complete scam, the world thats been bought up around us has been completely fabricated to further an agenda. 9/11 was 1 part of that agenda. step back and look at the whole picture, join the dots, understand the game.

have a read of this- abovetopsecret.com...

have you read the thread all roads lead to rome?



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:16 AM
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reply to post by WHOS READY
 


If we assume that the last 2000 years of history has not been a scam then your argument isn’t even a argument it is just your vague ramblings. I would remind you that it’s your thread and the “all roads lead to Rome” thread against 2000 years worth of history, hundreds of thousands historical experts (as in Phd level), millions of books and other historical correspondence, artefacts, monuments, ruins and common sense against two guys sitting on a pc. I know what side I am on and it’s not the two random’s trying to make a name for themselves.

That said however the point of this thread is not to go about trashing other threads, I am sure you both put allot of work into those threads and they make for some entertaining reading, in the same way Dan Brown books make for entertaining reading. The point of this thread is to discuss the over use of the term “false flag”, “new world order”, “the aliens are coming get your tin hats”, “WWIII” and “this is the next 9/11”. We have to start looking at the real conspiracies as we are risking becoming even more ignorant that the guy next door who gets all his news from CNN.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown
These theories have a number of problems; firstly they assume the existence of the NWO and their capability to manipulate world events on such a grand scale that they could cause such devastating damage. Then they assume that the NWO are so influential that they can cover the whole thing up without any leaks.


1st theing
The ptb admit all the time now that we are in a inter connected world, lol. They say no country can isolated from another in terms of problems. They say this openly now.

2nd point
They cover up things very well. How do they cover up so many things, america keeps secrets in the open and no one notices. America and these people keep secrets very well. When you say the gov does not keep secrets, they keep secrets very well. The anglo american empire keeps secrets out in the open.

How many peopel ever offical have talked about the jfk murder? They keep secrets very well. Just imagine the amount of people that would of had to have known that the truths where not that in the news.

Are police in dallas that stup1d or corrupt, lol.
edit on 11/25/2010 by andy1033 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:33 AM
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reply to post by andy1033
 


Yeah and i would love to see your evidence.

Yes we live in an interconnected world however states still maintain their sovereignty on the whole and there is yet to be any prove that a select group of elite individuals are sitting behind the face of our governments controlling them and the population of the earth. The NWO makes no sense and there is no solid evidence.

It is impossible for a single group of elite individuals to cover up a entire group of events on the scale of Perl harbour, JKF’s assassination and 9/11 to name but a few without there being some massive leaks.

It is fundamentally ignorant to assume that the NWO are behind every major world event and that these events are all false flag operations. A failure to recognise this is therefore fundamentally ignorant.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:34 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 

One interesting aspect of this development is the way the definition of "false flag" is being stretched unitil it loses contact with its original meaning.

E.g. "The Gulf oil spill was a false flag". Surely the whole point of the "false flag" concept is that a perceived enemy is being blamed? How can it be a "false flag" if the official story is that it was an accident?

Again, there was an ATS poster the other day who was arguing, as far as I could tell, that the alleged missile trail of the coast of California could be a false flag on the grounds that;
it was really a Chinese missile
and the main stream media were denying that it was a missile.
Surely, in a "false flag" situation, it would be the other way round?

I just imagine how Goebbels would have loved the "false flag" obsession.
"Attention, London! Attention, London! This is Germany calling! It is likely that in a few hours time many thousands of tons of explosive will be dropping on your city. We believe that your wicked government and your wicked media will try to convince you that these are bombs dropped from our planes. But do not believe them. This is yet another of Churchill's false flag operations".



edit on 25-11-2010 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:35 AM
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This thread is a false flag! A false flag I tell you, you NWO disinfo agent! M&Ms have a brown colors, but it's chocolate; it makes so sense to color chocolates brown. Why do women sit down when going to the bathroom? Why does ice melt? THINK ABOUT IT. CONNECT THE DOTS. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Totally agree with you!

The gulf oil spill false flag story was the one that actually got me thinking about this thread a few months back. Then the missile launch being claimed as a false flag and most recently the recent exchange of fire on the Korean Peninsula. Surely if these events are false flags they would have to have some noticeable event taking place after words that the false flag paved the way for. For example 9/11 (if you believe that stuff) as a false flag led to a war on terror. However what has the gulf oil spill led to that has had any meaningful impact.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:57 AM
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It seems to that we have all became obsessed with finding the next 9/11 conspiracy, we are like heroin addicts looking for a bigger high than the one before.


I find the wording and the general message to be disgusting to say the least, but that is just my opinion.


Beyond that, of course there will be people overusing the words as there will be people underusing it or trying to undermine the use of it(you). This is the point of it all. Throw so many incidents(you can't say the gulf oil spill was an accident, who the heck got the clean-up contracts?) and so much information at the general populace that it will become nigh impossible to distinguish between 'real' and 'fake' and elaborate on any findings.

Confusion will run rampant amongst the paranoid and superiority complexes will surge amongst pretenders, it happens OVER and OVER. Divide and conquer. Even OS believers don't understand they're falling for tricks, they're too busy proving the 'conspiracy nuts' wrong.

I wonder how many people understand this post.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


Well, the idea of that line was to shock, make my point sick. Whist you might not agree with my use of that metaphor the point is still valid. There are too many people on ATS running around looking for the next 9/11 whist ignoring everything else going on around them that could constitute a real conspiracy. It’s not just 9/11 that’s really just an example that illustrates my point, the hundreds of UFO, predictions, look at my pretty picture and yes the NWO false flag threads are all distractions.

The CIA or NWO don’t need to send disinfo agents onto ATS we are spreading enough disinfo ourselves with this obsession we have developed with finding the next big thing. Another 9/11 could be 50 years ago or even 100 and in between this time we could be missing out on some really big conspiracies.

If your struggling to understand my point please just let me know and I’ll try to explain myself another way.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 



There are too many people on ATS running around looking for the next 9/11 whist ignoring everything else going on around them that could constitute a real conspiracy. It’s not just 9/11 that’s really just an example that illustrates my point, the hundreds of UFO, predictions, look at my pretty picture and yes the NWO false flag threads are all distractions.


Congratulations. How did you come to that conclusion?


The CIA or NWO don’t need to send disinfo agents onto ATS we are spreading enough disinfo ourselves with this obsession we have developed with finding the next big thing. Another 9/11 could be 50 years ago or even 100 and in between this time we could be missing out on some really big conspiracies.


I'm not part of this we but I know people who cling on to "apocalypse dates" as well as religious folk who are going nuts because of the happenings in the world today. I agree with you that this is a problem, as you say, people will look into things too hard and end up missing other, perhaps bigger, things.

The big conspiracy is that there is no big conspiracy in my opinion. People are being divided and this division is enough to keep the majority of people busy all their lives.

Some people will look into one book all their lives and they will be happy with that one book. Not because they are happy with that one book, but because the book tells them to be happy with it. Catch my drift?



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


I came to this conclusion really rather easily, I read allot on ATS and I have been around long enough I think to make such observations.

And for the record I agree with what you have said, there probably is no big conspiracy, that said however I am open to the idea that conspiracies to exist. I just also happen to think that the conspiracy literature massively exaggerates them



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown


These theories have a number of problems; firstly they assume the existence of the NWO and their capability to manipulate world events on such a grand scale that they could cause such devastating damage. Then they assume that the NWO are so influential that they can cover the whole thing up without any leaks. By far the biggest problem as I see things is the lack of evidence that a false flag has occurred it is always based on the idea that the NWO would have a motivation to cause an event like 9/11 or the oil spill to happen because it is in their best interests. This idea opens up another problem as it assumes that we know what the objectives of the NWO are which are mainly negative and to bring about some form of world domination. This again assumes their existence but also that if they do exist that they then have unscrupulous motives, who says they don’t want to help us all out (if they exist)?.




Who's to say that there is no NWO? The seats of our government use the term all the time. The only problem is that people tend to talk about the NWO as a tangible being, or a group of people. I see it as an idea, an ambition. How do you know that there is no NWO?

Sure, "NWO" and "false flag" are over and miss used, but a so are a lot of the terms and words we use on all the topics posted here. For example, "Deny ignorance". The word ignorance basically means "to be uninformed or the state of being unaware".Ignorance

So, the term basically means "Deny being unaware or uninformed". Informed means having or to be prepared with information. Why people always post replies to threads that give information (even if it is wrong) saying "deny ignorance"? Even if it is wrong information, is it still not information? Is it still not being informed or aware of something? For example if the poster claims that tomorrow aliens will conduct a mass landing, and it does not happen, are we still not informed that the event was noted, should a freak event cause it to actually happen? Were we not informed ahead of time as to be not ignorant even if it doesn't happen?



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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I agree with you that EVERY major event is probably not a false-flag operation. I do believe that maybe 50% of them are,though. I am convinced that governments, elites NWO whatever name you want to give them, do indeed- if not actually pulling the trigger so to speak- at least "manipulate" or "steer" things the way they want them to go in order to serve their own self-interests...



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 06:06 PM
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could it be that 9/11 happened
so that the DHS could be created
under the guise of global terrorism?

DHS was created under the GW Bush
administration. Bush's are part of the
Illuminati.

I really do believe as well that the events
are being orchestrated by TPTB.
And the real TPTB are in fact
the Anti-Christ already living among us
on earth.

Time for me to go back and
watch "The Omen" again.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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The problem with the idea of the NWO existing is a lack of proof showing that a group of elites are working together to bring about world domination.

This thread however is not about whether the NWO exist or whether 9/11 was a false flag, its about these terms being grossly over used leading to us losing sight of some real conspiracies.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


- Adolf Hitler burning his own Reichstag building in 1933 to blame on his political
enemies.
- USS Maine.
- The Lusitania and World War I.
- Pearl Harbour.
- Gulf of Tonkin.
- Oklahoma City.
- 9/11.

With time, comes truth.



posted on Dec, 1 2010 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by LiveForever8
 


As I understand it a few of them such as Oklahoma, Perl harbour and 9/11 have never been absolutely proven to be false flag operations. I know Gulf of Tonkin has been effectively proven and I don’t really know about the others.

But again this does not mean that events in north Korea, the oil spill, economic collapse and so on were false flags.



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