7 US Aircraft carrier battle groups location

nothing is wrong with that but someone said that chinese are more free than american and that is simply not true.

[edit on 3-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

Free democratic? America?

Pfff....the one with the (sponsor) election money of multinationals, oilcompanies and weaponindustry will get power over the buttons of the worlds biggest nuclear stockpile. America's people are slaves of greed and fear. That's what I mean with the statement that the people of some countries are more free than what they like on your telescreen. Even if they get blackened by US-propaganda.

First thing to do when you want a real democracy is to make clear who is getting sponsored by who......until then we are all part in a big dark puppetshow. And all chear the puppet the puppetmaster want us to like.

Question who is the real puppetmaster???? More and more tracks point to the Freemason related organisation.

The motives of the US is clear as water. World domination, their militairy expense is over 7x the ammount of nr 2 and 9x nr 3. At least the Americans know where their taxmoney is going. We have seen this 50yrs ago in Europe. Reichstag fire or attack on Twin Towers, both gave a boost to the global world (war) against terror and militairy ambitions of a nation in despair.

World Wide Military Expenditures

Country Military expenditures - dollar figure Budget Period

World $950 billion 2004 est. [see Note 5]
Rest-of-World [all but USA] $500 billion 2004 est. [see Note 5]

United States $466.0 billion FY04 actual [see Note 8]
China $65 billion 2004 [see Note 1]
Russia $50 billion [see Note 6]
France $46.5 billion 2000
Japan $45.3 billion FY04
Germany $38.8 billion 2002
United Kingdom $31.7 billion 2002
Italy $20.2 billion 2002
Saudi Arabia $18.3 billion FY00
Brazil $13.408 billion FY99
Korea, South $12.8 billion FY00
India $12,079.7 million FY01
Iran $9.7 billion FY00
Australia $9.3 billion FY01/02 est.
Israel $8.97 billion FY02
Spain $8.6 billion 2002
Taiwan $8,041.2 million FY01
Turkey $8.1 billion 2002 est.
Canada $7,860.5 million FY01/02

source: www.globalsecurity.org...

[edit on 3-7-2004 by voorwaarts]

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Chinese are more free than us name me some rights that the Chinese have that US citizens don't also china doesn't hold national free elections even though the people of china want free elections

Also just cuz you dont like bush dont mean he is a bad president.

A.in comunism every one is equal ,that means no big buisness boses there to push you down into the dirt.
b. in comunism's variants all the money goes to the state,the state protects the country with its countries money . this is much more effective than western way cause some westerners dont pay taxes,believe me knwo this.

Why are you leaving out some point devil?
Also in communism you don't get a say in who you want as your leader
Also in communism you can work harder than someone who doesn't want to work yet you both get the same amount of money
Also in communism the government has the right to kill torture and even oppress you without any explanation.
and devil dont you live in a democratic nation?


[edit on 3-7-2004 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by devilwasp
A.in comunism every one is equal ,that means no big buisness boses there to push you down into the dirt.
b. in comunism's variants all the money goes to the state,the state protects the country with its countries money . this is much more effective than western way cause some westerners dont pay taxes,believe me knwo this.

To quote Homer Simpson: "In theroy communism works, In Theory!
If the communist systems is so effective how come they have essentially collapsed and reverted back to a normal system (Cuba, China, and NK are the exceptions) and CHina is rapidly becomming a capitalist country.
Explain the rampant poverty in countries like Cuba etc. If everyone is = then why are some people well off, some people not, they all should be = right?
Where is the incentive for improvement? If I go to medical school, and then make the same as the guy that takes tolls, why should I spend all that time.

Originally posted by devilwasp

A.in comunism every one is equal ,that means no big buisness boses there to push you down into the dirt.
b. in comunism's variants all the money goes to the state,the state protects the country with its countries money . this is much more effective than western way cause some westerners dont pay taxes,believe me knwo this.

Yes, everyone is equal, but there are more equal and less equal.
Devilswasp, you don't know what is copmunism so please stop talking about it. Comusnism will always deform itself, because people simply doesn't want to be equal. Only the poor wants to be equal, and when they achieve it they want more. so if you want to establish comunism you need to repress specific group of people. The comunist economic is more and more ineffective, because the state is controling everything and so they cannot for example fire the people out of work when they are not needed. I live in small midlle Europe country and before the fall of comusnism some factories have manufactured TVs that were too old and do you know what they have done with them? TVs were simply scraped and it continued so many years. So the factory made TVs and THEY KNEW they will be scraped, but they continued to produce them. This is the real comunistic economy.

Originally posted by devilwasp
actually true comunism isnt oppressive , its actually more peaceful than democrac.

Errr....no......I was born in a communist country, sorry jack, but you are dead wrong....Communism is oppressive in all forms.

Originally posted by xbin
First, I'd like to say, China is not communism.

We admire America system, but China's situation is some different.
Currently you see, China's growth rate is the highest in the world,
than all of the democracy countries in the southest asia. So according
to enconomics theory, our system must have some advantage, otherwise
we can not make such achievement.

Err....your government thinks of itself as communist, perhaps you haven't noticed. The only thing that your government did right, was to realise that capitalism would improve your economy ten times, and that they copied from the West. So, it was not a Chinese idea, it was a western idea the Chinese government has borrowed, but its still a communist country.

Originally posted by devilwasp
comunism is where every one is free to do what he or she wants.
the western world thinks comunism is bad evil ,thank you very much MOD for that fact.

I think you got your facts mixed around. You are confusing communism with anarchism I think...

In communist countries people can not do whatever they want. You actually have less freedom than in a democratic government. Communism is bad, and it can be seen by all the people who have died under communism, mostly people from the same communist country, more so than in any other form of government.

In anarchy, people can pretty much do anything they want, but in an anarchy there is no government, and its nearly impossible to have a large community of anarchists in the same place living under the same rules, since everyone will not want to do or react the same way....

Originally posted by voorwaarts
And I believe the Chineese people are more free than the poor Americans that are pumped full with pro-Bush CNN propaganda each day....

That country is rulled by Freemasons.

Yeah.....we saw that on Tiananmen Square....that's what you call Chinese freedom.....and now with Taiwan trying to be independant and China saying they will go to war if that happens.....and even making a show of force in Taiwan's water with the help of the French... This is one of the reasons why we probably are doing the summer pulse 2004 mission.

BTW, you have been watching Moore's films too many times imo....perhaps you should find the facts instead of believing in Moore's fantasies....

[edit on 3-7-2004 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by voorwaarts
Free democratic? America?
The motives of the US is clear as water. World domination, their militairy expense is over 7x the ammount of nr 2 and 9x nr 3.

Your point is? One thing that people esp. Europeans don't seem to get is that alot of this spending goes to R&D which will eventually end up in the civilian sector. Things like GPS and laser technology all came out of military spending. As far as world domination, the EU is bent to the same goals that you accuse the US of. And correct me if im worng there seemed to be few complaints when our military spending was going towards shielding Europe from the Warsaw Pact!

Originally posted by FredT
Sorry if you feel that support for a democracy opposed to an oppressive communist regime is a problem, but for all intents and purposes, Taiwan is a nation unto itself. The only problem as I see it is that the US has not formally recognized this.

Taiwan also calls itself the Republic of China or ROC. (A few people earlier got mixed up called the mainland that). Although they may take independence, the fact is that ROC believes it represents the legitimate government of the mainland as well. This is a civil war as old as Chinese Communism itself

By the way, as has been pointed out, the mainland is called PRC, not ROC.

This looks like a rope-a-dope to me. We make like Iraq is a big deal, we start activating the Army's Individual Ready Reserve (that was mentioned in the WoT thread I believe), and we deploy carriers there as training excercises, while at the same time pulling troops back from the DMZ. We also have seen a lot of attention directed more at Iran than China.

Maybe we're just scarring them- not just showing force but really making them believe we're coming when we aren't, just to get their attention.
Maybe we know they're planning something and we're sending a message that Bush can't afford to send in words right now (like: "America will go to war with PRC so fast it will make your commie head spin- yeeha!")
Maybe Bush thinks he can win the election by taking away the Korean nukes, or maybe he planned it for his second term and realizes its now or never.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Err....your government thinks of itself as communist, perhaps you haven't noticed. The only thing that your government did right, was to realise that capitalism would improve your economy ten times, and that they copied from the West. So, it was not a Chinese idea, it was a western idea the Chinese government has borrowed, but its still a communist country.

Actually no pure system is working. The background of commuism theory
is also trying to solve the capitalism problem. what's the problem? too
greedy.

Capitalism initial development is full of greedy and bloody, but later indeed
the people of capitalist countries enjoyed their achievement, why ?
because they turn all of their greedy and bloody to outside, they colonize
the other countries and rob their assert and resources. They killed all the
Indians and took over their land. The reason for the WWI and WWII are
all because of these greedies.

These are the background that socalism theory comes out. Later some
western people also realised the un-controlled capitalism is actually
harmful, so they begin to borrow some ideas from socalism theory
and introduce laws and regulations to prevent the stronger eat weaker
freely.

What you call our system does not matter, also there is nothing wrong
we borrow some idea from west, but we are already socialist country
while trying to introduce capitalism, I think it is a good chance for us
to develop a system which can maximum utilizing the merit from both
side and try to avoid the shortcoming of the both side.

Our advantage is we have almost 30 years of socialist experiments,
although the result is not as expected, but it is still a good experiements,
and we did not abandon it like throwing a waste as Russians.
After we introduced capitalism, now actually it generated a lot problem
in both our economy and society, and now many Chinese people begin
to look back of our previous socialist experiments and trying to find
some answer and way to solve our current problem. I think if we go on
our own way, we will develop a system which is mixed of socialism and
capitalism. Both socialism and capitalism are the theory coming from
west, we will see if we can succesfully mix them together using our
Chinese wisedom.

Originally posted by xbin

Originally posted by Muaddib
Our advantage is we have almost 30 years of socialist experiments,
although the result is not as expected, but it is still a good experiements,

"Socialist Experiments"? Im assuming that you are talking about the Cultural Revolution? How many people died during your "experiement"?
How many people starved during the great leap foreward. How many people have died and continue to die during your ongoing experiment in Tibet? How many people died at Tienniman Square? How many political dissidents are working in sweat shops as slave labor ? How many children are working today? How many baby girls were thrown down a well today because mom and dad wanted a boy?

Originally posted by FredT

Originally posted by xbin

Originally posted by Muaddib
Our advantage is we have almost 30 years of socialist experiments,
although the result is not as expected, but it is still a good experiements,

"Socialist Experiments"? Im assuming that you are talking about the Cultural Revolution? How many people died during your "experiement"?
How many people starved during the great leap foreward. How many people have died and continue to die during your ongoing experiment in Tibet? How many people died at Tienniman Square? How many political dissidents are working in sweat shops as slave labor ? How many children are working today? How many baby girls were thrown down a well today because mom and dad wanted a boy?

Fred

If you say so, how many Indians American White killed ? Why not reture
their land. How many assets and resource you have robbed from third
world countries ? How many people died just because of several greedy
capitalist countries fight to grab their global interests in the WWI and
WWII. And still in Bush's Iraq war policy, we still see the greedies.

Blame others in always easy, first please use mirror to see yourself.

Things like GPS and laser technology all came out of military spending

Yeah right, thats why Soyuz is the only carrier that can supply ISS. And btw the only reason US 'liberated' Europe was to prevent the SSSR to finnish their job.

But next on the list of joining Europe are Turkey, Russia and Israel. The socialist Euro is getting stronger mates. At this moment OPEC is in debate to kick the dollar as oil trade currancy. When the oil is getting paid in Euro's US wil be on Argentinean levels of 2 years ago.

The best thing to make money is to change your pension/savingplan Dollars into Euro's. You will regret soon if you don't. EU is already using 33% more oil thean the US. The shift will be sooner as you expect.

Xbin,

Trying to equate the treatment of american indians to your countries massacres in Tibet is apples and oranges. While it is no excuse your acts are strictly political in nature. Worse yet you seem to place little value on the life of those you have killed off in your experiments. I would be happy to discuss the American Indian situation with you in another thread as its not germaine to this topic line.

Also, we can point to your history in the last decade and basically pick out massacre after massacre after massacre. Any regime built on brutality and repression will eventually fail. AS far as pillaging 3rd world countries, perhaps you should take a look at your countries actions in Africa. I have a question for you that I will put up in another post soon.

who controls all of the 24 GPs satellites the US airforce dose and yeah right that's why the space shuttle is the only reusable vehicle to land and be reused as a space vehicle capable of serving the ISS.

Originally posted by voorwaarts

Things like GPS and laser technology all came out of military spending

Yeah right, thats why Soyuz is the only carrier that can supply ISS. And btw the only reason US 'liberated' Europe was to prevent the SSSR to finnish their job.

That can be easily changes by developing a resupply vehicle. But there is no point in duplicating something that is already working (Read into that Gallileo). Plus the Russians need the bucks. The bottom line is Europe has yet to prove that thier base industries can survive without massive subsidies from thier governments, Ill give you though that the EU will sure make it ewasier to give all those kickbacks to Airbus et al.

Of course the US wanted to keep the Soviets out of Europe. What sence would it have made to kick out the Nazis then allow yet another dictator to overrun Europe yet again. Thanks for the investment advice, but Ill be keeping my money here.

Fred

Judge anything is based on facts. Unfortunately the facts I acknowledged
is different from you. You may say I was brainwashed, that is up to you.
But I will say maybe I see much more things than you, I worked in Japan
for several years and later I came to America for study and work, I do
see the both side and I judge anything from the information integrited
and not just from one side information.

You may say America has free speech, so everything in your media is
trustable, but I don't think so. I read/watch English news everyday,
I know how they are talking about China.

If you say I put little value on Chinese people's life, that's nonsense.
You see how many people go to street to protest American's bombing
of Chinese embassy in Yugoslavia and killed 3 Chinese people, will you
still say Chinese people don't care about the life of their folks ?

If you so care about Chinese people's life and their rights, I think there
is some better thing you can do :

Japan killed 300 million people in the invasion war to China, In NanJing
city alone, they kill 300,000 civilians in just a few days. But till now
they refused to admit the crimnal and refuse to apologize.

Japan forces a large amount of woman became sex slave in the war,
these includes Koreans, Chinese, Taiwanese, Philippines and even
some white women. But till now they refuse to admit the fact and
refuse the compensation and apologize.

Japan 731 unit use live body to do bio-chemical experiements in the war,
and a lot of innocent Chinese died in their hands. But later American
Government released all of these criminals in exchange of their
bio-chemical research documents.

Write to your government and congress to ask their help for justice.
This is not just the thing between China and Japan, this is anti-mankind
crime, America should take their responsibilty as the world leader.

Thanks in advance.