Moon Hoax. Wire pulling (smoking gun?(doubtful)), page 2

reply to post by SaturnFX

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One of the Astronauts says, "Give me a hand." The narrator even repeats it and it does look like one Astronaut is helping the other up by grabbing his hand or arm. I think there is good evidence that this is exactly what is happening. No "wire" taking the weight, just the other Astronaut's hand.

reply to post by youdidntseeme

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The pool scenario is a great example!

If I'm not mistaken then in doing that same motion, one would need an object of support to grab hold of to stop from continuing moving backwards in that environment.

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by SaturnFX

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One of the Astronauts says, "Give me a hand." The narrator even repeats it and it does look like one Astronaut is helping the other up by grabbing his hand or arm. I think there is good evidence that this is exactly what is happening. No "wire" taking the weight, just the other Astronaut's hand.

Right, a few posts down it is basically explained away...I also added an edit to the original post on how the solution seems to be down a bit in the posts.)

Originally posted by mistafaz
reply to post by youdidntseeme

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The pool scenario is a great example!

If I'm not mistaken then in doing that same motion, one would need an object of support to grab hold of to stop from continuing moving backwards in that environment.

That is right, astronauts do alot of training in 'weightless' conditions underwater.

I personally love the feeling of neutral buoyancy underwater.

Originally posted by rogertom
i remember bill and ben...and pinochio used to stand up in the same manner.

And in near zero gravity, Pinnochio could also do this with no strings attatched, just a little upward push. Remember the moon has roughly 1/6th of Earths gravity.

The Shuttle suit, including the life support system, weighs about 310 pounds. The suit itself weighs about 110 pounds. If an astronaut weighing 175 pounds wears the complete suit, the total weight is then about 485 pounds (310 + 175 =495).

source

Let's do the math, 485 lbs multiplied by 1/6th equals just over 80 lbs.
Even myself, and I am not a physical specimen by any means, could push 80 lbs upward with minimal effort.

reply to post by SaturnFX

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I am truly sorry that you fell for this old chestnut!!!

Came along a bit late, I did....hope it's been adequately explained....the "underwater" explanation was a really good one! (Wish I'd thought of that, it helps people visualize better, if they have at least SOME experience in a pool environment).

I am quite familiar with most of the ridiculous "claims" by those pesky "hoax" peddlers...and this one, that clip, is no exception. That blow-dried buffoon, pontificating in the inter-cuts?? Complete idiot.

Someone mentioned already, is sure worth a repeat....the 1/6th gravity is THE most important bit that people seem to forget. The human musculature, and strength, is still the same, Earth-adapted for his normal 180-pounds of body weight in one G....and, of course, the EVA suit, and PLSS add more mass, but still....essentially, he is still only about "70-80 pounds equivalent", when used to easily whipping around his naked 180 pounds.

It is also important to understand the suits...when under pressure. They have a sort of "springiness", like a balloon animal, in a way. There is a default position, based on how they are sewn. The human inside has to exert muscle power to bend, at any articulated joints.

(Many accounts I've read say that among the most exerting aspects, are the gloves, and moving the hands, clenching the fingers. Most Astronauts, even today, find they have to trim their fingernails VERY short, and yet still, they can get abrasions on the fingertips, and cuticles, from rubbing the material inside the gloves).

Same with the elbows, shoulders, knees, ankles, etc. You move against the basic shape of the suit, where it wants to be. When you relax, it springs back. I think some more modern design have more articulated joints, like in the wrists, where you can rotate your hands around the ulna/radius in the arm, but will have to look that up.

So, basically, when the astronaut (was that Cernan, or Schmitt? I think Schmitt fell the most. He's still alive, and has a website....WHY NOT ASK HIM???)

...anyway, once down on his hands and knees, a simple push with the forearms, and a bit of flex in the ankles and toes ....you can see it, in the maneuver (and without the friction/resistance of being underwater, for that example). PLUS, the PLSS is a big counterweight, on his back....shifts his center of gravity farther back than it is in a naked body....

reply to post by weedwhacker

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Weedwhacker,

Excellent points here. When I was talking about the pool scenario I totally discounted the default shape of the suit. The balloon animal comparison is right on point.

If you put a balloon animal in low gravity, apply force to one spot, it will bend, but if you remove the opposing force (like the astronaut did when he pushed off) it will bounce back into shape, then you have apply a force again to move the boots downward to an upright position.

star for you

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by purplemonkeydishwasher

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He does appear to be getting help though...you eventually see the person was holding the guys arm.


actually, now whats bugging me is the scene after and the slowed down dirt movement.

I might be starting to look too deeply into this and now seeing everything not making sense.

quick question to anyone...would dirt at 1/6th the gravity of earth fall at the same rate as gravity here? I know a pebble and a brick will fall at the same speed on earth...is gravity a constant in regards to falling? (really don't know offhand...instinct tells me it would fall slower and therefore appear in slow motion, but a confirmation might be nice)

I think safe to say a constant on the moon...maybe this helps answer your question...

of course, why would anyone believe NASA footage anyway

reply to post by Faiol

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Oh, silly, silly.

It is NOT "prove" of a hoax, and is NOT a "simulation" they recorded earlier!!!

People who even try to make such ridiculous suggestions do so only absent ANY real study and examination of the totality of the events.

Ignorance abounds, especially in something as complex and so out-of-normal experience to most people. They simply cannot reason it, by using their own brains to realize how the physics, environments, and thus movements are VERY different from what they're used to, with only their Earth experience to draw upon.

I just my head in amazement at the utter lack of comprehension. It only requires a bit of reading, and learning, to begin to be able to understand these concepts. Furthermore, additional studying of the history, the specifics of Apollo, with all the details (and NOT the cleverly cherry-picked segments the "hoax" believers use....to falsely make their "claims"). Once the full effect and time lines and complete details are known, it is evident to anyone with three neurons to rub together how there is NO WAY any of it was "faked".

But, IF people wish to "believe" this "hoax" crap, let them. The rest of us, after banging heads against brick walls, trying to instruct, will just let those sorts wallow in their delusions.....because what will eventually happen is, they will just become laughing stocks to everyone else.

reply to post by SaturnFX

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I dunn about this one that would'nt be hard to pull off i guess but it seems like why would you do that just wait it out you'll get their eventually

reply to post by SaturnFX

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quick question to anyone...would dirt at 1/6th the gravity of earth fall at the same rate as gravity here?... (really don't know offhand...instinct tells me it would fall slower and therefore appear in slow motion, but a confirmation might be nice)

No, things do not fall at the same rate on these two different worlds. Gravitational acceleration here on Earth is 9.8 m/s and on the Moon it would be 1/6th of that or about 1.6 m/s.

Originally posted by Devino
reply to post by SaturnFX

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quick question to anyone...would dirt at 1/6th the gravity of earth fall at the same rate as gravity here?... (really don't know offhand...instinct tells me it would fall slower and therefore appear in slow motion, but a confirmation might be nice)

No, things do not fall at the same rate on these two different worlds. Gravitational acceleration here on Earth is 9.8 m/s and on the Moon it would be 1/6th of that or about 1.6 m/s.

ok, right...thats what I thought...falling in a black hole will make you go much faster than falling to earth. thanks for the confirmation...I am not an expert on gravitational science clearly...nor even able to pass a basic test...so I do not trust any conclusion I come to until someone with more knowledge confirms even the most basic principles.

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