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TSA pat downs: 'Horrible' screener job gets worse

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posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:17 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


Affavdavit! That was the word I couldn't fish out my brain last night! I was half asleep when trying to answer the other poster's question.


Actually, I respect you for your views. To be honest? In the same situation I would quit as well, but I don't have anyone to worry about but myself, being single. However, that doesn't prevent me from seeing the other side of the coin as well. Every person has their own reasons/priorities where it pertains to the well being of those they are responsible for, and I merely wanted to underscore that some may truly feel as if they are trapped in a situation where they can't quit. For all we know, perhaps there are some who disagree but do not want to visit that sort of economic horror on their families right at the height of the holiday season.

I did notice in the article that the man interviewed pointed out they don't have the ability yet to collectively bargain but are working for that. It may well be, that when they do the first thing they demand is to stop these outrageous searches!
edit on 24-11-2010 by ProvehitoInAltum because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


It is not so much that they are complaining about the job. I imagine though many of them do not like touching others as often as they do and are working to get that changed.

Most it seems are complaining about the way they are being treated. Even if you are grateful for the job that is hard to come by in this economy it sucks when you have people treating you like crap for no reason.

Look at some of the posts here on ATS about the treatment of them. Before I got to thinking about it I too had some posts about going to them without showering and such. I admit I was wrong to post such things. After thinking about it they are simply trying to feed a family.

Raist



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by Exuberant1

If someone cannot deal with the consequences, then they ought not do the job. If fondling people makes one upset, then one should not get a job where one will be expected to fondle/molest/search people.


The flaw with that reasoning of course is ... do we really want people who enjoy fondling others doing the fondling?

You see the problem?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:30 PM
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reply to post by nenothtu
 


So I assume that in the times you just up and left work for 18 months your kids/family did not mind not having an income to feed them?


It is easy to quit if there is another job lined up, not so much when you have nothing to fall back on. The longest I have been without some form of income since I was 16 was one month. I spent that month looking for a job and that was almost ten years ago.

In today’s job market jobs are a bit harder to find. As for this being against my principle. I might not fully agree with the policies but it is not against my principle. I am on the fence about it being unconstitutional, because flying is a choice. If they were to do this on every form of travel and down roadways, then I could see that as an issue.

The article even said that many of them are against the policy and those things do not change overnight. It will take people on the inside to help get it changed. It will take them demanding higher pay and other things if it continues and asking that it be changed.

People are hating the wrong group here.



Raist



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:39 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 



Yes I went through the entire hire process for the TSA and was offered a job. I turned it down. I thought from the website that it was an annual salary of 36K for part time work....

No it is 28k-36k a year IF you are working full time.

They offered me 12.50 a hour and I told them to go smoke some crack literally.

I said :"You are smoking crack if you think I'm going to do that job for 12.50 an hour".

I figured it would work out good for me, because I would be working part time making 36K a year and I'd be able to work on some of my pet projects with my free time.

I practically died laughing on the floor when they told me it would be 36K a year ONCE I got through the two year probationary period and started working full time.

I thought, this is ridiculous, they are trying to protect our nation with people who are willing to accept part time work making 12.50 an hour????

Jaden



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by Miraj
 


They just want them to get on welfare so they can then complain about that and how unpatriotic they are then as well.

I am sick of the patriotic argument. I am sick of the flag waving Uncle Sam stuff. I can be patriotic and not wave a flag. I can be patriotic and support these people trying to feed their families.

Many here complaining about how bad these people are and how they are not true Americans are doing no better and most likely have not and will not be flying anyway. It is the internet after all and many just need something to vent about and feed off the media anger just to get out their own life stresses because they cannot find another way. I have seen so much “false” anger on ATS over the years it is not even funny. People need someone to hate on, they love to complain and belittle others while sitting on their high horse. I am just as guilty of this over the years as well. This sort of place seems to draw that sort of person, very seldom do you see a lighter side.

Maybe though in all their bemoaning a few will see that these people are just trying to feed their families. The rest will just go on and hate someone else later.

Raist



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


First, I hope you have something else lined up. Not working now and looking for a job is a bad place to be in.


I agree though $12.50 an hour to do that job for part time would be a bad idea. The stress from that alone would not be worth the pay. I would only take such a job if I absolutely had to until I could get something else in this job market. If though I were looking into several places I would not even think twice about walking away.

Raist



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by DrMattMaddix

Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by spav5
 

...there is no way I could feel up people all day long. Sorry but I want to save that sort of thing for my wife.
Raist


Absolutely!

I'm sure that many other couples; like my wife and I; have used this horrid, nearly unspeakable acts of the TSA for fun!

Every since this started, I always give my wife the TSA treatment! And more!

It's just one more excuse to check for explosive items... Of which WE BOTH FIND!

No one is leaving on a jet plane today!


Every cloud has a silver lining.
edit on 11·24·10 by DrMattMaddix because: grammar


I must admit that my wife and I have given each other a 'pat down' or two and she tends to enjoy the occaisional body cavity search, but seriously...

I travel by air at least six times a year for my job and I find that the rules change almost every trip. I am never difficult to deal with when I go through the lines, even though it seems to me that those checking us through haven't been properly briefed on the changes and an there is often quite a bit of confusion.

I was pulled aside for a pat down (non-enhanced) last year while leaving for a vacation with my family and really didn't think anything of it. I had my wife and two teen daughters with me, as well as my grammar school-aged grandson. None of them were pulled aside.

I would now have to say, after all of the press that I have been following for the past two weeks about this issue (and I flew twice during that time, without pat downs) I am now a bit uncomfortable with the thought of flying and I certainly don't want my wife, teens or grandson to fly. It does seem to me that the TSA or those who hold their strings are banking on that and they are hoping for an uproar so they can slip something more subtle in on us (it's also likely to be quite insidious) or, they are looking to anger someone into injuring or possibly killing a TSA agent on duty so that they can bring in armed military or police.

I would like to say that I believe most of the people taking TSA jobs would follow their moral compasses and refuse to do enhanced patdowns, but I doubt that will happen. It's probably just as well, because the people waiting to replace them might not have a moral compass at all and then where would we be? I'm sorry, but I can't offer any quick and easy solutions for this problem, because the truth is any easy solution won't be quick, and all the quick ones that I can think of just cause more problems.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Miraj
 


I am sick of the patriotic argument. I am sick of the flag waving Uncle Sam stuff. I can be patriotic and not wave a flag.


Sorry for such a short reply.. but seriously? This needed to be repeated. You're definitely not alone, Raist. I love the land that we live on. I love the citizens of our nation, but right now? I do not necessarily love the 'United States of America' because I deplore what our federal government is doing on almost every major issue. There is a definite distinction there.

All I want for Christmas it to be able to be proud of America again!

ETA: Hate[/b] is not the answer to anything, LOVE is.
edit on 24-11-2010 by ProvehitoInAltum because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by obiwanbeeohbee
 


What you say is true.

It would be nice if the TSA agents would refuse to do the pat downs. Having said that though I do not see that happening, jobs are hard to come by now.

I would though rather have someone who does not want to be doing the pat down and doing a half butt job doing it because they were just as embarrassed than having someone who would enjoy doing the job doing it.

I can imagine that there are some wanting to get such jobs because it would fit into their list of jollies. Others are simply stuck at a job because they need income to feed their families. If I have someone who is respectable about family and its importance I do not think they are going to violate my family or me.

However, years ago I decided I would never fly again. They went crazy after 9/11. Despite what Bush and everyone else said, the changes we made was nothing more than what was wanted. Those who wanted to win won on that day. Fear is now the normal everyone seems to be afraid of some unseen enemy just around the next imaginary corner.

Raist



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by Masterjaden
 


Do you know what I find completely ironic? The people who are directly supposed to be looking out for our safety and security (screeners and military) are paid a wage that one can barely live on. Yet, the ones destroying this nation (the lawmakers/politcians) are the ones that get paid through the nose. This needs to end. If the TSA really cared about our security and safety, not only would they act in a contitionally legal manner, but they would also pay those on the 'front lines' a decent living wage!



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:27 PM
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reply to post by ProvehitoInAltum
 


The pay scale is completely tipped in the wrong direction in the U.S.

Politicians, CEOs, sports people, and movie and music starts make huge dollars. Yet those who are the most important are neglected in pay.

Raist



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


Oh on that we agre 110%!

If I may diverge onto a tangent here. It's abhorrent in the extreme that any CEO can stick out his left hand to take a miltimillion dollar bonus as his right hand is busy signing away the pink slips of all the workers he's laying off. If these creeps were paid a normal salary just like everyone else, they wouldn't need to lay off good and decent people. It disgusts me more than I have words for. Now, I'm not spouting a communist/socialist agenda here, but rather common sense. I do think CEO and the high executives in a corperation deserve to make more than the lower tiers, but nowhere near close to what some of them are making. It's downright obscene!



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Raist

TSA pat downs: 'Horrible' screener job gets worse


money.cnn.com

"The work life here is horrible," said McCoy, president of his local union representing officers. Turnover is like a "revolving door" and health benefits are "atrocious," he said. Morale is low and so is the pay, he added.

Officers typically start at $29,000, but that's only if they're working full-time. New officers often start as part-time workers, said McCoy, at about $14 per hour. He said that part-timers, who make up 37% of the screener workforce at O'Hare, typically have to work four-hour days for at least three years before they're considered for full-time.

"I can't
(visit the link for the full news article)





Welcome to the conservative republican version of life in America where the deck is always stacked in favor of the company and the employees can go fly a kite if they don't like. Why don't you guys strike? We'll support you.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by trailertrash


Welcome to the conservative republican version of life in America where the deck is always stacked in favor of the company and the employees can go fly a kite if they don't like. Why don't you guys strike? We'll support you.


Do you really believe the liberals are any better? @@. Both sides are wolves and the only real difference between repiiblicans and democrats are the colors of sheep's clothing that they wear.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 07:19 PM
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reply to post by ProvehitoInAltum
 


When I quit, I had a wife, 3 kids, and two grandkids dependent, at least in part (the grandkids weren't wholly dependent) on me. They learned that life isn't always easy, that sometimes sacrifice is involved in standing on principle, and that there is ALWAYS a way. In my case that way involved concentrating more on raising and training guard dogs until returning to a regular job. Before that, it was just a hobby, as it is again. Any income from that is back to being supplimental, rather than primary, and I don't rely on it or care if it comes.

The thing is, there is always something that anyone can do to make a dollar in a pinch. It ain't easy, but it's possible. Had push come to shove, I'd have moved them all out the the deep country, and right now they'd be learning about the life cycle of a small farm. From that they would have (and still might) learn self-sufficiency to a higher degree than they already have. For me, that's the name of the game. Raised principled kids that can make it alright on their own when I'm gone.

On the collective bargaining front, I'm somewhat ambivalent. It's a good idea in theory, but the practice has left something to be desired. I've been in a union (SEIU), and found that it was about the most useless organization on the planet. The only thing it was any good for or efficient at was collecting union dues out of every check.

When I was a small child in Ohio, the Teamster's strike left a lot of dead bodies for no good reason, as did the UMWA strikes in the coalfields when I was a teenager in Southwestern Virginia. Those UMWA strikes hit every 3 years or so, and it was always an exciting, turbulent time that I could have done without. Because of the aggregate of all those negative experiences, admittedly a subjective view, I have no use for collective bargaining as practiced. On the other hand, I have family members who swear by the Unions, and would as soon beat me to a pulp as look at me if they could, because of my views on the matter versus their unwavering support of unions.

In any event, I expect that the TSA WILL be unionized, together with a lot of other federal agencies. It's a foregone conclusion to me, since political favors are owed, and will be collected upon, particularly in this administration. The drive is already underway to unionize most government positions, I think, right down to local law enforcement and fire fighters. I've got to wonder how a strike in those arenas will work out, but it's likely that we'll eventually see.

Same for the TSA. If they have to go out on strike to get a point across, who's going to man the walls they claim to be manning now? Will airports just have to shut down altogether?

Interesting times we live in, sort of like the old Chinese curse.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by mblahnikluver
 


It is not so much that they are complaining about the job. I imagine though many of them do not like touching others as often as they do and are working to get that changed.

Most it seems are complaining about the way they are being treated. Even if you are grateful for the job that is hard to come by in this economy it sucks when you have people treating you like crap for no reason.

Look at some of the posts here on ATS about the treatment of them. Before I got to thinking about it I too had some posts about going to them without showering and such. I admit I was wrong to post such things. After thinking about it they are simply trying to feed a family.

Raist


No disrespect intended here, but that sort of abuse kind of goes with the job. You have to learn to handle it, or get a different job. Some employers will dump on you for fun. Not all, but some. There are some truly fly by night outfits out there. Form a cursory inspection (primarily the "4 years at part time" requirement) I'd say that TSA is one of them - trying to squeeze out everything it can without giving up any perks.

On top of that, ANY security officer has to learn to let comments by the public ("rent-a-cops", "mall cops", "Barney Fife" that sort of thing) roll off of his or her back like water off of a duck. To take umbrage every time would be to be in a state of perpetual turmoil.

Abuse from the public, and frequently the employer, goes with the turf, always has, likely always will, and it's not limited to this latest from the TSA.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by nenothtu
 


So I assume that in the times you just up and left work for 18 months your kids/family did not mind not having an income to feed them?


"Not minding" and "learning to cope with adversity" are two entirely different, and antithetical, things. Nearly everyone minds adversity. Me and mine learn to cope with it. After all, NO ONE can guarantee that adversity will never happen. I've taught mine what to do when it does. If one never has instances of things that they "mind", they will never learn how to deal.

I never promised my family a yellow brick road, but I HAVE promised to teach them how to get along in the world the best they can at the time, with what they have to work with. I've promised to teach them how to walk that road, regardless of what it's made of. Part of that learning is when to stand up, and when to stand down. Doing things against your core principles is one of the times to stand up, in my view, because to do otherwise will demean you in your own eyes, make you question your own worth, and ultimately kill you soul if allowed to continue.

I don't measure success in dollar signs. I measure it in the ability to look at oneself in the mirror. That's just a personal preference.



It is easy to quit if there is another job lined up, not so much when you have nothing to fall back on. The longest I have been without some form of income since I was 16 was one month. I spent that month looking for a job and that was almost ten years ago.


Yes, having a job already lined up DOES make it easier to quit. My dear old dad, bless his heart, ALWAYS stressed to me that life would not always be easy. Sometimes, in my view, doing the hard things in life is what demonstrates just what your character is made of. None of us were issued a safety net at birth. Safety or security are never guaranteed, financial or otherwise. lot of rich folks found that out, I think, in 1929. That depression is where my dad learned to cope as a child, this one is where his grandkids learn to cope. In between, I learned from his hard lessons.



In today’s job market jobs are a bit harder to find. As for this being against my principle. I might not fully agree with the policies but it is not against my principle. I am on the fence about it being unconstitutional, because flying is a choice. If they were to do this on every form of travel and down roadways, then I could see that as an issue.


Yes sir, I realize that jobs are hard to find. I realize that very well. I also realize that a "job", i.e. working for someone else, is not the only way to get by. As a matter of fact, it tends to make on dependent upon the employer, as we are seeing here. The ability to force yourself to walk away if that becomes necessary in your own eyes negates that power over the individual by the employer.

Now, concerning whether or not this is against your principle, I can respect your viewpoint, because principles are funny things - they will vary from person to person. What may not bother you may absolutely eat me up, and vice versa. I can't fault you for your principles simply because they are not mine. If everyone were the same, it would be a truly boring world.

In this case, this RANDOM pat down activity IS against my principles, on personal, moral, and constitutional grounds. I threw "moral" in there because I believe it is inherently wrong to subject people to random indignity without probable cause. I don't do it to others, and I'll be damned if they'll get away with doing it to me. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" comes to mind, and it's a pretty good guide, regardless of religious convictions or lack thereof. That's just good business in getting along with people, irrespective of spirituality.

Flying IS a choice, but when it comes right down to it, so is everything in life, including eating and breathing. You can choose NOT to do those things, and endure the consequences, just as with flying or anything else. The choice is still there.



The article even said that many of them are against the policy and those things do not change overnight. It will take people on the inside to help get it changed. It will take them demanding higher pay and other things if it continues and asking that it be changed.


I think, personally, that it will take people on the OUTSIDE to get it changed. I think the people on the inside you refer to, since they are "employees", will be pretty much universally ignored. As you have so ably pointedout, the economy is tough right now. Employees can be simply fired and replaced if they kick up too much fuss.

Especially the part-time employees.

As I said in one of my posts above, the only effective way to handle it is to start firing and replacing the decision makers, from the top down, until it regains sanity. Keep in mind that those decision makers are allegedly OUR employees, and if enough of us take serious umbrage, they will be fired and replaced.

Or all hell will break loose,and the point will be moot. In that case, they'll wish like hell that they were ONLY in the unemployment line.



People are hating the wrong group here.


Agreed. Not everyone will be able to demonstrate the courage of their convictions. Some people fear the unknown too much to mobilize themselves, and unemployment is one of the bigger unknowns out there, especially at this point in time. It is incumbent upon the decision makers - and that is ultimately US - to change this bad policy.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by ProvehitoInAltum

Originally posted by trailertrash


Welcome to the conservative republican version of life in America where the deck is always stacked in favor of the company and the employees can go fly a kite if they don't like. Why don't you guys strike? We'll support you.


Do you really believe the liberals are any better? @@. Both sides are wolves and the only real difference between repiiblicans and democrats are the colors of sheep's clothing that they wear.


I wanted to give this post a gazillion stars, but since I could only give one, I thought it bore repeating.




posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 


TSA workers say they detest feeling up, also known as sexually molesting, the stinkies and fatties. Since we can not all get fat before our next flight, we can match the spirit of their role in our lives and always arrive at the airport smelling to high heaven.




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