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How can the earth be millions of yrs old and we can't find a tree over 10K yrs old?

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posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 08:44 AM
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Seriously? No, I don't find it strange. What I find strange is the sad lack of critical reasoning skills in our young today. Yes, I am assuming the OP is in his/her 20's because the post reflects such incomplete thinking.

Since when are trees on the surface of the earth in any way reflective of the age of the Earth? What of coal and oil, which are both very aged decomposed, compressed (and otherwise returned to whence it came) organic matter, like trees for example.

What about the wealth of fossilized trees? Ever heard of the Petrified Forest?

Think deeper and wider grasshopper. Read books.




posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by pajoly
 


Actually I find the topic very interesting because I have done enough research to know the truth.

But even with education some people faiths will led them to take the believes the truth within their believes.

In other worlds I had a friend that she was a very devoted Christian with a masters degree in languages, she was a teacher, but she will fall flat on her butt telling you that dinosaurs were fake and that they never existed before human in earths, whenever I told her about the age of the bones, she will tell that is was fake.

Beside that she was a lovely modern women that you will never guess how deep her believes ran, when it comes to earth age.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:01 AM
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"I just wish one honest skeptic would say, "you know, that is an interesting question, statistically you would have thought there would have been at least a few more than one (1) living tree older than 10K, after all there are 100's of millions of them...and life has been here "millions" of years?

...it was just a simple question...all their panicing is pointless... "

Maybe because IT IS NOT AN INTERESTING QUESTION. There is NOTHING THE LEAST BIT PUZZLING aboutit. It is an idiotic question or thing to wonder about. Just like I don't wonder why we don't find a 500 year old living human. And no one is panicing. What we are is astonished by your total fealty to dogma regardless of the 2nd grade level facts placed before you. If there is ANY panic, it is simply the thought that people can think as you do. To me, that is real scary, sort of like half the population around us is in a cult.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


What might be interesting -- maybe more accurately considered troubling -- is how widespread these "beliefs" are in the U.S. now. We are at a stunning level of ignorance, perhaps not seen in our literal American history. My European friends find our ignorance shocking and genuinely scary because they know we have WMDs and the will to use them. They fear that this epidemic of ignorance will put one of their ilk in power and then its all over.

I don't find it quaint or cute that these people belive as they do. I find it worse that they think the rest of us simply beneath them, that we are unguided pagans who have simply not seen the "Truth." These are the sorts of people that will burn witches at the same time they smile, praying for them and thanking God for their wisdom. meanwhile they pray and celebrate and actively seek out an armagedon, as they believe it validates their world view. So they are all for new Orthodox settlements in Gaza, as it pushes conflicts closer. They are champions for violent war with Iran, as it pushes conflict closer. They are for nuclear proliferation and mass murder of Muslims because they think it honors God.

I genuinely believe people like the OP are the greatest threat to humanity right now, not Muslims, not disease, not climate change.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by pajoly

Maybe because IT IS NOT AN INTERESTING QUESTION. There is NOTHING THE LEAST BIT PUZZLING aboutit. It is an idiotic question or thing to wonder about. Just like I don't wonder why we don't find a 500 year old living human. And no one is panicing. What we are is astonished by your total fealty to dogma regardless of the 2nd grade level facts placed before you. If there is ANY panic, it is simply the thought that people can think as you do. To me, that is real scary, sort of like half the population around us is in a cult.



Thanks for your thoughts...I'll agree to disagree.

One final thought...how hurt would one have to be to think that 50% of the world is delusional
Also lets just say the "O" in OT is "O"ver 20


Ah, the heck with it...here's some other "delusion/non-science" quotes from scientists...I'll stick with them


George Washington Carver [c. 1864-1943] agricultural chemist, inventor of over 300 products
"Without my Savior, I am nothing."
"I love to think of nature as an unlimited broadcasting station,
through which God speaks to us every hour, if we will only tune in."
"God is going to reveal to us things he never revealed before if we put our hands in his. No books ever go into my laboratory, a thing I am to do and the way of doing it are revealed me."

Wernher Von Braun [1912-1977]; first Director of NASA, pioneer of space exploration
"Scientific concepts exist only in the minds of men.
Behind these concepts lies the reality which is being revealed to us, but only by the grace of God."

Lord Kelvin [William Thomson] [1824-1907] Physicist, Laws of Thermodynamics, Absolute temperature scale, inventor
"With regard to the origin of life, science...positively affirms creative power."
"Overwhelmingly strong proofs of intelligent and benevolent design lie around us...
the atheistic idea is so non-sensical that I cannot put it into words."


Sir Isaac Newton [1642-1727]
Mathematician, Physicist
Inventor of calculus
Law of universal gravitation
Newton's three laws of motion:
1) Law of inertia 2) Force=mass*acceleration 3) Principle of action and reaction
Published "Newton's Prophecies of Daniel"
after his study and translation of the Book of Daniel [in the Bible]
"About the time of the end, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the Prophecies, and insist upon their literal interpretation, in the midst of much clamor and opposition."

"There are more sure marks of authenticity in the Bible than in any profane history."

" This thing [a scale model of our solar system] is but a puny imitation of a much grander system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a designer and maker; yet you, as an atheist, profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"

= = = =

OT's in good company...you sound bitter friend...sorry



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


OT, I giv you props for being the funniest troll on the site
. I will post it once more:

A colony of 47,000 quaking aspen trees (nicknamed "Pando") covering 106 acres (Template:Rnd/c4dec0 |43|(0)]] ha) in Fishlake National Forest, United States is considered one of the oldest and largest organisms in the world. It has been estimated to be 800,000 to a million years old, although tree ring samples determine individual, above-ground, trees to only average 130 years.[4][5][6][7] A colony of Huon pine trees covering 1 hectare (Template:Rnd/c4dec1 |2.5|(1)]] acres) on Mount Read, Tasmania is estimated to be around 10,000 years old, as determined by DNA samples taken from pollen collected from the sediment of a nearby lake.


Okay, so let's review.
-Over 10,000 years old
- Please, state the question this thread is to answer?

Because so far, you make yourself look bad. You first stated you wanted the oldest tree. We gave you that. You lost, so you wanted the oldest 'living' tree. We gave you that. You lost, so now you fail to overlook my information for the....6th time?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by pajoly

I genuinely believe people like the OP are the greatest threat to humanity right now, not Muslims, not disease, not climate change.



I wrote my last reply BEFORE reading this....


Hopefully you are just 'playing' here...I have to cut the grass now....On the TIM TAYLOR Dixon ZTR, I'll say a prayer for you this Thanksgiving. Good bye....

www.tradenote.net...



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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reply to post by pajoly
 


I am Latino born American as a Puerto Rican, went I came to live in the US 30 years ago, I was amazed at the education in the US, back in the seventies it was the top in the world, now we rank in the 30s, even lower when it comes to math and science, I wasn't educated with books from the US our books came translated from Europe, mainly Spain.

Education in the US has gone very sour, some think is a conspiracy to keep people dump and stupid, I always regard my fellow Americans, (no all) as gullible, good natured but easily manipulated.

Education in the US is causing a irreversible damage to the new generations.

Children are not longer interested in Science, Math and history and that is what is going to make the US fall into intellectual decay.


edit on 24-11-2010 by marg6043 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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Because trees are living things. As living things they are subject to death to extreme conditions. If there were a drought, ice age, or any major event, they die and return to the earth. Some survive as petrified wood. I do not know the range of dates on these, but I imagine it is slightly past 10k years. Also, who cares if there are no trees? We have dinosaurs and myriad of fossil records that provide us with plenty of evidence that the earth is older than 10000 years.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Because trees die?

2nd.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by mr10k
reply to post by OldThinker
 


OT, I giv you props for being the funniest troll on the site
. I will post it once more:

A colony of 47,000 quaking aspen trees (nicknamed "Pando") covering 106 acres (Template:Rnd/c4dec0 |43|(0)]] ha) in Fishlake National Forest, United States is considered one of the oldest and largest organisms in the world. It has been estimated to be 800,000 to a million years old, although tree ring samples determine individual, above-ground, trees to only average 130 years.[4][5][6][7] A colony of Huon pine trees covering 1 hectare (Template:Rnd/c4dec1 |2.5|(1)]] acres) on Mount Read, Tasmania is estimated to be around 10,000 years old, as determined by DNA samples taken from pollen collected from the sediment of a nearby lake.


Okay, so let's review.
-Over 10,000 years old
- Please, state the question this thread is to answer?

Because so far, you make yourself look bad. You first stated you wanted the oldest tree. We gave you that. You lost, so you wanted the oldest 'living' tree. We gave you that. You lost, so now you fail to overlook my information for the....6th time?


This post for the win.
edit on 24-11-2010 by MConnalley because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


"I'll say a prayer for you this Thanksgiving. Good bye.... "

Exactly my point. These people have such arrogance, they will smile as you burn, as they pray for your salvation. Given the right circumstance, right wing "Christian" cultists WILL vote in theocracy and revise history to assert the Founders wanted things that way, They WILL discriminate against everyone but other cultists. They will tell a Methodist, a Catholic, a Presbyterian that they are not Christians. They will happily prevent athiests from teaching and other professions "for the good of the community." They WILL bomb Iran and will praise God in church the day the bombs fall.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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I didn't wade all the way through the 8 pages of this thread because I need to make a point.

A theory is supposed to have backing. A story doesn't need any backing.

Saying that the sky is made of gumdrops is a story. There is no debating a story.

Trees have been around millions of years. Just because the oldest living one isn't that old doesn't mean anything.

No theory here, just a bad story.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


"Education in the US is causing a irreversible damage to the new generations.

Children are not longer interested in Science, Math and history and that is what is going to make the US fall into intellectual decay."

I agree marg and I find it scary because while the education of our population has crashed, our weapons have grown stronger, as is our willingness to use them. And with the rise of the cult of American Evangelical Christianity, we are rapidly evolving into a dangerous fascist state. Thanks to evangelical Bush, we now wage huge Christian/Fascist wars without provokation. We admit to torture and the people in the evangelical churches literally cheer torture on. We wage war on our own citizens with the Patriot Act. Meanwhile, the non-evangelicals meekly line up to have their daughters and grandmothers groped by government agents at the airports, so don't look for the silent majority to change things.

Things will run its course. We will become more Christian fascist as a nation until some type of war breaks out. Europe will be in a moral quandry who to support, but ultimately they will side with science and education, which will force them to line up with China and Russia to put us in our place. Hopefully, it won't be too bloody and maybe can be accomplished through economic sanction. If I am lucky, this will happen in my lifetime so the theocrats can be rooted out, allowing the real, loving Christians, non-Christians, secular humanists and the other non-sociopaths to live in peace, in respect of nature and science.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:21 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 


Oh but you can and we just had one planted in our front yard.

The Dawn Redwood.


In 1941 with the threat of a full-scale Japanese invasion of mainland China, wealthy aristocrats decided to conduct surveying expeditions into the remote heart of the country in hopes of relocating away from danger. At the time, much of interior China was a vast wilderness, inhabited by primitive farmers who had no contact with the outside world. One day while conducting his survey in the Sichuan (at the time, Szechuan) and Hubei (Hupeh) Provinces, a forester by the name of T. Kan chanced upon a tree unlike anything he had ever seen before or was even remotely familiar with.

The tree was gigantic; in height as well as diameter, and Mr. Kan immediately recognized it as something unique. Local villagers referred to the tree as Shui-sa, or water fir, and it was part of a local shrine.
In 1944, the tree was rediscovered yet again, by a Mr. T. Wang, of the Central Office for Forestry Research. He collected samples of cones and foliage which he brought back to Nanking for identification. Botanists in Nanking were baffled by this mysterious tree, and could only conclude that it was unknown to science.



Meanwhile in 1941, Japanese paleo-botanist Dr. Shigeru Miki was busy identifying fossils of Sequoia (redwood) and Taxodium (baldcypress) from the United States, and noticed a peculiar abnormality with many of them. Instead of having alternating leaves as is typical of both genera, many of the fossils bore leaves that opposed one another. Additionally, the leaves of the mysterious fossils were longer than those of the other genera. This puzzled Dr. Miki, and after extensive examination could only logically conclude that these taxodiads were something other than Sequoia or Taxodium, and belonged to a genus all their own.

He named the new genus Metasequoia; meta being Greek for “like” or “similar to” (genus) Sequoia, and published his findings in an article. The species was believed to be extinct, due to the fact that no fossils younger than 1.5 million years had been found anywhere. How ironic that the very year that Metasequoia was identified as its own genus, living specimens were discovered three thousand miles away!

Source: www.dawnredwood.org...



Ours is now around 10 feet tall. When full grown it will look like this



Is a member of the Sequoia family and scientists have found fossils embedded in stone that they calculate are over ten million years old.

The tree was thought to be extinct but a grove was found in Chinia around 1941.

Our planet's atmosphere isn't the same as millions of years ago and most trees have changed and adapted to the atmosphere change.

Also, humanity seems to like to cut down the bigger older trees.

But yes there is a tree that has survived and it's the Dawn Redwood.

You can buy this tree at most nurseries and it isn't that expensive.

Ours has been in ground since mid October and is doing quite well. A beautiful tree.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by OldThinker
 



Well the biggest problem we have as humans is delineating between time and our first measure of time, the rotation of the earth and it's revolution around the sun.

Much that is ignored by the modern paradigms can be explained by a certain interpretation of Einstein's theories of relativity. The easiest thing to use as an example is the mechanism by which the universe appears to continue to accelerate in it's expansion without added energy....

The answer to this and to your question is that space itself is expanding, stretching....and as it does time is forced to speed up. I'm talking about absolute time, not time as we measure it.

So the answer is that the universe isn't continuing to accelerate in it's expansion, it is expanding at a static rate, but because space/time is stretching as it expands, the farther out you go, the faster time is, so it appears to be accelerating.

This is why there have been times in our past where people have been purported to live much longer spans, because time was measured by the rotation of the earth and our revolution around the sun, but when we were closer to the center of the universe where space/time is densest, time itself was moving much slower, so cellular degradation etc occured much slower in relation to the amount of time the earth traveled around the sun.

That's as far as I"m going to go into it right now....But think about it. It explains a lot that has been ignored without having to make up nonsensical things to make equations work....Science is great at using multiple variable circular logic to "prove" their theories correct...

Fill in the blanks till you get a fit lol..instead of thinking and coming to a rational conclusion...

Jaden

edit on 24-11-2010 by Masterjaden because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:34 AM
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Animals need trees for oxygen...animals were around before 10,000 years ago...Some dinosaurs were plant eaters...This thread has no basis, there's been a few definitive responses already but you ignore them and keep this thread going regardless..If I was mod I would of just PM'd you some common-sense, and deleted this thread from the get-go.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Because trees are a living thing and eventually they die. Rocks and earth are inanimate things which are not living species. Like all flora and fauna species tress have a life expectancy. Sorry, but thats a really weak argument for creationism in this instance



I guess all the polystrate trees lived for millions of years, since they appear to have been growing through multiple rock layers?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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I wonder what coal is made out of?


What a silly question


3rd line



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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do you know how many frikin rings a million year old tree has?

lots!

take you a couple frikin years to count them and you will probably forget what the hell you are doing.



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