Iowa group seeks Arizona-style immigration law, begins petition drive.

An Iowa citizens group opposed to illegal immigration is launching a statewide petition drive aimed at urging Gov.-elect Terry Branstad and lawmakers to approve a tough, Arizona-style immigration enforcement statute in Iowa.

The Minuteman Patriots have sent petitions to supporters in 81 Iowa counties, said Craig Halverson of Griswold, the group's national director. Several members gathered about 400 signatures Saturday outside a post office in Council Bluffs, and a similar petition effort was conducted in Sioux City. Petitions were also distributed Thursday at a Tea Party Patriots meeting in Spencer.

I hope this country fixes the immigration problem soon. I live in NM now, originally from NJ. I saw more immigrants in NJ then I do now here in NM. I used to watch the daily parade of illegals on a certain street in NJ every morning on my way to work, I'm talking hundreds of people. Now and then a white van would pull over with ICE Agents jumping out and the chase was on, very surreal! Funny though because these same people would just come back after they left, they couldn't arrest them all.
I for one don't want illegal aliens in this country and before some of you try to crucify me for saying it, listen to the rest. My mom immigrated from Italy in 1947 and my dad's grandparents immigrated from Romania - BUT THEY DID IT LEGALLY like many other people who want to come here for a better life.
Well that's my view on this and I hope it gets resolved soon on a Federal Level.

DesMoinesReg

What people don't realize about these laws is, all they do is give authority to the government to harass people. They won't actually work on illegals but what they end up doing is just fill more jails with people awaiting trial. If you are a US Citizen there is no reason that the police should have to question it.

There are real things that can be done to curb the illegal immigration issue, but these laws won't do it.

reply to post by whatukno


I never understood what exactly is the problem with citizen IDs in the US. Citizen IDs are common all over the world, we have had them for 60 years now, and there are no issues with it. Without an easy way to quickly identify a citizen from non-citizen, every immigration policy will fail.

If you are a US Citizen there is no reason that the police should have to question it.

This is absurd. There is no other way to find out if you are a citizen or not in the first place, only to question it. It should be one of duties of a police officer to question citizenship of every person he has suspicion about.

If you are a US citizen there is no reason why you should be afraid of police questioning immigration status.

reply to post by Maslo


Well, apparently you are from Slovakia, if that is true, you might know all about living in a police state. You might be fine with it, I don't know, but we Americans don't like the idea of living in a police state.

I have looked into these laws, and it turns out that they are being pushed through by white supremacist lobby groups like FAIR, and The Pioneer Fund.



This video might help you understand what is going on here.

reply to post by whatukno


Define "police state". Is police protecting the people from unlawful activity totalitarian police state? No. And in order to protect them, police must have the ability to at least check the situation if it has suspicion of unlawful activity. Otherwise all laws are just void words on paper.

And what is totalitarian about citizen IDs, considering almost every democratic country except US has had them for almost 100 years, and they didnt turn totalitarian? (if yes, not because of IDs).
Is driver license or other licenses also totalitarian?

I have looked into these laws, and it turns out that they are being pushed through by white supremacist lobby groups like FAIR, and The Pioneer Fund.

And in this case, I agree with them. How is checking for citizenship (which I am sure has nothing to do with race in the US) racial persecution? Are you implying that only minority groups break the law or only white people are granted citizenship? That would be racism from your side, there are surely many white illegals.
Or the law somehow excludes white people from being checked?

reply to post by Maslo

Define "police state".

The term police state describes a state in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

en.wikipedia.org...

How is checking for citizenship (which I am sure has nothing to do with race in the US) racial persecution?

Because these laws are specifically targeted towards Latino populations. Specifically geared to make Hispanic people second class citizens with undue pressure on them. Forcing these people to constantly assert their legitimate right to be in this country when they come here legally.

reply to post by whatukno


You see, I dont think citizen IDs fulfill the definition of police state.

Because these laws are specifically targeted towards Latino populations.

They are targeted against illegal immigrants, thats whats in the law. It just happens that majority of illegals are not caucasian, but I dont see how that fact should somehow make them unequal before law. Law must be "blind" to race, and this law is. Positive discrimination would be also racist.

Specifically geared to make Hispanic people second class citizens with undue pressure on them.

I dont think legitimizing yourself with citizen ID is undue pressure, it takes cca 30 seconds max. The only pressure would happen if you dont have it - and then its justified, because there is reasonable suspicion that you are breaking the law (are illegal immigrant). Is checking driver license also undue pressure on drivers?

Targeting non-caucasian people more often has nothing to do with their race, its simply because according to statistics more illegals are non-caucasian. Its not racism. If witness of a murder claimed the murderer was probably black, would looking more for black suspects be also racist? Should police ignore this fact and look equally for white people just to be more pollitically correct? Thats just insane logic.

Forcing these people to constantly assert their legitimate right to be in this country when they come here legally.

Is the same as forcing drivers to show driver license or gun owners to show gun license. Its not discrimination or harassment.

reply to post by Maslo

I dont think legitimizing yourself with citizen ID is undue pressure, it takes cca 30 seconds max.

No, you aren't understanding what goes into checking someone's citizenship. You are arrested, then taken to an INS Facility where you are processed.

How this is working is you are rounded up along with everyone in the area that are suspected of being illegal, you are taken to the INS Facility to be processed. Eventually if these laws go through, this will take at first days, then weeks, then months then years, before US Citizens are screened.



Take a look at this video, take a real look, and think about it, think about the 28 American Citizens that were arrested, picked up and brought to a detention center.

Now think about when these laws go into effect, they start rounding up people to go through these screens, it's going to take time, not your 30 seconds, it's going to take at least hours, then that's going to be delayed to days, then eventually weeks, then months, then years. Years in jail waiting for your citizenship to be verified.

What government operation is ever efficient? This isn't going to be that's for sure, these are people that no one cares about. They will have to go to an INS Jail, not a regular jail, and the INS facilities are going to be flooded with people, both illegal, and legal, people born in this country at home, people born in US hospitals.

They aren't going to be targeting everyone for this kind of screening, it takes a person to verify this, it's not automated and it eventually takes a person on the other end to actually look up the information, and that takes time, so this is going to be a cluster (beep) of paperwork, and people being jailed for years while they wait for some government employee to figure out whether or not they actually belong in this country.

Is it fair for a person that does belong in this country to be put in jail for years without trial waiting for some bureaucrat to finally take their time to look them up? I guess to you it's fair, I guess it's ok for US Citizens to be jailed for years without trial just to be verified as a citizen based solely on their skin color. Cause you know they aren't going to arrest white people under this.

Make no mistake about it, a US Citizen detained for 1 second under this law is wrong.

reply to post by Maslo


Maslo, you don't even need a federal citizen ID. Illegals cannot legally get a driver's license or State ID in the US. I've debated this issue with WhatUKno before in the Arizona thread, the poster is not going to change their mind, end of story. Even though if one is stopped for a violation of the law in this country the first thing they will be asked to do is establish their identy and show the law enforcement agent their state driver's license or ID.

ETA: WhatUKno, here's the thing. Every American knows not to leave home without their license/state ID. Let's talk about personal accountability here. If you leave home without valid ID then you know are taking a risk! I live in a State without these laws, but I am still up a creek without a paddle if I'm asked for ID and I do not produce it. I know whereof I speak and learned that lesson well.

reply to post by whatukno

No, you aren't understanding what goes into checking someone's citizenship. You are arrested, then taken to an INS Facility where you are processed.

Yes, thats because there is no universal citizen card in the US issued to all legal citizens, so they have no way to know on site, if someone does not have some other ID document with him. But the obvious, easy and most rational solution is then to simply issue such card for free for every legal citizen like almost all world countries do (the cost would quickly pay back), and not completely ignore the issue of fast citizenship identification, especially in the country with high illegal immigrant influx.
There is no even need for a new card, simply make passport card or some other existing ID card possesion mandatory for every legal citizen, and problem is solved.

..or simply shoot a RFID chip inside persons forearm and forehead and.. oh.. wait.. no.. the old-school card would be enough

reply to post by Maslo


Mandatory possession of a federally issued ID, sounds pretty fascist to me. I guess we have no freedom to move about the country as free people then do we?

What's next? State wide mandatory checkpoints? Can't go from state to state without your papers? Maybe we should force everyone in the country papers entitling them to travel? That way we can expand the TSA to include interstate roads as well right? The infrastructure is already in place, instead of just freight trucks stopping for checks, everyone traveling on the roads can stop for a mandatory search of their vehicles, detainment, fingerprinting, identification checks and a pat down and body scan just for good measure.

What a wonderful America you all have in visioned. When are you all going to start in with the mandatory blood screenings for everything?

I didnt even bother to read some of the comments posted, because i was too eager to chime in, on my view of this whole 'illegal immigrant' thing. Actually, before i comment, i would like to ask some questions:

1. What does an 'illegal immigrant' look like?
2. Why can't we all live, where we CHOOSE to live?
3. Who drew the lines on the map called countries and borders?

See, my problem is this....a bird can fly ANYWHERE it chooses. It can live where it wishes. It has no ruler or no one telling it, to shoo. Same thing goes with a dolphin or a whale. It goes where it WANTS to go; and it doesn't have to go through metal detectors, and barbed wire fences, to get where it WANTS to go.

Man, on the other hand, says, "You cant go here", "you cant go there"; "you cant do this" and "you cant do that" (well, you can, at a price *wink*wink ; )

Does anyone see anything wrong with that picture?

Other species get to roam free on planet earth...and we have to ask for PERMISSION from another member of our species? hahahahahahaha Am i the delusional one?

This site says: "Deny Ignorance", yet and still... It doesn't get any more ignorant than that.

Please tell me WHY people cant live FREELY, without everybody dictating what they can and can't do?

The way i see it is like this: People can govern themselves...without an outside 'official' to get in the middle of it all. I think, for the most part, people respect people...and KNOW the rules of the land. BUT, at the same time, if one does not follow the 'rules' OF THE LAND...then, they should be dealt with, accordingly.

For instance, if someone comes onto my property, uninvited, i have a RIGHT to defend myself and my property..and i shouldn't have to call someone to help me. And, if an intruder KNEW the owner didnt have to call and wait for a response, chances are, he's not gonna come onto my property. Right? Around my neck of the woods, the saying is: "Dont start none, won't be none"! If you go looking for trouble, you're bound to find it.

Also, this whole immigration thing is a little LOPSIDED. First of all, NOT ALL MEXICANS want to live in America. Second, Mexico in not the only way a person can cross the border, 'illegally'. Have you ever heard of the CANADIEN border? So, how come you never scream about illegal 'Canadiens'? Oh, and how about the other illegals that are here, from the UK and such? Do they count? Or are they an exeption to the 'rule' because of their skin color?

Again i ask, what does an illegal immigrant look like? Isnt that kinda like being a 'terrorists', muslim, christian, etc.. Can anyone describe what either one of those types of people looks like? Could you spot an illegal immigrant, or a terrorist, while you're walking down the street? Could you tell what God i serve?

PS: Is it only right for Americans to live where they want to live, while everyone else is confined to their own country, without a choice? Shouldn't the 'pursuit of happiness' be entitled to EVERYONE?

PSS: Mexicans should be the least of your worries, you need to keep your eye on the asian countries, specifically: CHINA. Mexico is a good neighbor. So, don't believe the hype!!! I know from experience having been born and raised in Newark, N.J. and now residing in Mexico, for the past 8 years. China is the one you owe and the ones you should focus on. You get your weed from Mexico, which should help you focus! hahahahah

If you are going to look at it in a biological way, you have to understand that humans are fiercely territorial animals, some animals are fiercely territorial and do not allow other members of their species into that territory.

In this case it's the Caucasian breed of human who is trying to defend it's territory against the Latino/Hispanic breed of human. The Caucasian breed doesn't want to share it's territory with anyone of the Latino/Hispanic breed, regardless of whether or not they are in the territory with the blessing of the pack leaders.

They won't actually admit this, because it exposes them as the bigots and racists they really are, but instead, they opt for the politically correct racial epithet "illegal" to describe anyone that has come from south of the "territory" here legally or not, to these people they are all "illegals" More colorful descriptives used to be used to describe these people, but that has become taboo and causes them to be exposed for what they really are. So the vernacular evolves and the epithet "illegal" is used to replace the now forbidden phrases of their forefathers.

reply to post by whatukno

Mandatory possession of a federally issued ID, sounds pretty fascist to me. I guess we have no freedom to move about the country as free people then do we?

It does not sound fascist at all to me. Its standard practice all over the world, and it is essential for a functioning state to be able to easily identify its citizens. You are not thinking rationally about the issue. IDs would be most useful for protection of citizens against police, because if you have one, the police would not be able to take you to custody like you described earlier.

What's next? State wide mandatory checkpoints? Can't go from state to state without your papers? Maybe we should force everyone in the country papers entitling them to travel? That way we can expand the TSA to include interstate roads as well right? The infrastructure is already in place, instead of just freight trucks stopping for checks, everyone traveling on the roads can stop for a mandatory search of their vehicles, detainment, fingerprinting, identification checks and a pat down and body scan just for good measure. What a wonderful America you all have in visioned. When are you all going to start in with the mandatory blood screenings for everything?

Please spare me your crazy fear mongering. If the US ever turns into a dictatorship, it would have nothing to do with IDs.

reply to post by whatukno


And why are you always bringing up race? This is not about race, period. There is not a word about race in any such law.

reply to post by Maslo


It IS about race, it wouldn't be a problem if we had an influx of Canadians crossing the border, no one would care. And realistically, they aren't going to be checking many Caucasians who speak with an American accent for their citizenship, they are going to be specifically profiling Latinos/Hispanics for this law.

Sure, that might not apply to you, but eventually, if they get the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution repealed "to get those terrist babies." then they will move up to Blacks, then others.

reply to post by whatukno

It IS about race, it wouldn't be a problem if we had an influx of Canadians crossing the border, no one would care.

If those canadians were acting the same as illegals in the south, I am sure people would also have problems with them regardless of their race. Its NOT about race, but about their behaviour - increased criminality (even if we exclude the crime of immigrating illegaly).
I am sure noone has problems with Latinos/Hispanics who are not criminals and immigrated legally.

reply to post by Maslo


All that violence is because of substances that are currently illegal. This is the natural progression of a free market system involving a prohibited item.

That violence is because of people who want to have a greater market share in something that many people happily purchase illegally in this country. If there wasn't a demand for those products here, there wouldn't be the violence that exists.

Few legitimate companies offering legitimate products act in such a way. This is a direct result of the war on drugs. If the United States would just end the prohibition on these substances, the violence would dramatically decrease because then they would be legitimate suppliers instead of ruthless drug cartels.

This happened before during prohibition of alcohol. The exact same thing.

Still doesn't excuse the violation of US Citizens constitutionally protected 4th Amendment rights, as those substances are illegal, and people who are in possession of those substances will be arrested anyway. This law does not combat that problem at all.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by whatukno

 

I never understood what exactly is the problem with citizen IDs in the US.

It's never a problem, until it's in your backyard. A police officer can essentially stop and ask you for ID anywhere on the basis of well, nothing. What's to stop a police officer coming onto your property on the count of some hunch?

Police officers already have the ability to look up citizenship status when you are in a normal driving stop. Any law beyond that is envasive. Why should I have to constantly defend my citizenship in my own country?

Citizen IDs are common all over the world, we have had them for 60 years now,

Yep, because it was never this envasive.

reply to post by Southern Guardian

It's never a problem, until it's in your backyard. A police officer can essentially stop and ask you for ID anywhere on the basis of well, nothing.

Its in my backyard.
Anywhere in the public, yes. If you have the ID with you (why would you not if you are legal? I always have it in my purse) its a matter of 10 seconds. Anyway, it never happened to me, and I know only a few people who had to show it to a policeman, and it was always on a legitimate basis (drug search in night clubs etc.). Why would they do it just for fun in the US? They never do it here, they are not paid for just asking papers.

What's to stop a police officer coming onto your property on the count of some hunch?

Police officer of course cannot step on your property without a warrant. They can demand citizen legitimation only in public areas.

Why should I have to constantly defend my citizenship in my own country?

Because its simply impossible to combat illegal immigration effectivelly if the police cannot check citizenship status.
Its like asking "Why should I have to constantly defend my driver license posession on the roads in my own country?"