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Liberal Democratic peer asks why world allows Israel’s treatment of Palestinians to continue – "Is it Holocaust guilt?"
Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
Um... "No." For so many reasons. Not to say that your stitched together outline of this subjective history can't be argued as legitimate by those who want to believe it. But you are not considering so many obvious facts. You know what, I'm not even going to list things because I promised myself I wouldn't continue fighting a losing battle of false-perspective. I will literally just ask a simple question... Why do YOU think that over thousands of years, the primary constant throughout has been the persecution of Jews?
And if that has been the constant, for whatever reason, wouldn't it be a no-brainer to think that people would organize strategies to rid their region of the people that have been persecuted throughout, for obvious reasons? So the fact that people have forged alliances to fight an enemy is nothing new. Also, if it was a certain Islamic sects main purpose to destroy Israel why wouldn't they try? Why not fly airplanes into Tel Aviv? (Perhaps it's because Israel is the one who had prior knowledge of the attacks... at the very least). A few hundred firecracker mortars and suicide bombings will not destroy a country (However, Israel has destroyed Lebanon & Gaza a few times).
I do not think that Islamic rule is better, but to think Islam is the one being falsely painted... that is a bigger farce.
Again, I leave the reply with the question... why do you think Israel has been hated longer than written history?
Originally posted by frozenspark
So much horrible nonsense here I don't even know where to begin. I am tempted to call you a disinfo agent, and I tend to believe they don't really exist on online forums. Hitler disliked Jews, Gays, Gypsies, Slavs, and.. definitely Muslims. He wanted to eradicate anyone who wasn't your typical pure-blooded German. And if you actually do some research you will discover Hitler's ties to the Rothschild family.edit on 23-11-2010 by frozenspark because: (no reason given)
Zionist designs upon Lebanon long antedated the formation of the state of Israel. In 1918, Britain was informed of Zionist claims to Lebanon up to and inclusive of the Litani River. British plans in 1920 to designate the Litani the northern border of a Jewish state were altered in response to French objections.By 1936, the Zionists had offered to support Maronite hegemony in Lebanon. The Maronite Patriarch then testified to the Peel Commission in favor of a Zionist state in Pa1estine. In 1937, Ben Gurion spoke of Zionist plans for Lebanon to the Zionist World Workers Party, which was meeting in Zurich:
They are the natural ally of the land of Israel. The proximity of Lebanon will further our loyal allies as soon as the Jewish state is created and give us the possibility to expand ... 
In 1948, Israel occupied up to the Litani but withdrew a year later under pressure. Sharett reports of Ben Gurion’s timetable in 1954 to induce the Maronites to fragment Lebanon:
This is now the Central Task ... We must invest the time and energy to bring about a fundamental change in Lebanon. Dollars should not be spared ... We will not be forgiven if we miss the historic opportunity. 
The invasion of Lebanon in 1982 followed a series of raids and invasions in 1968, 1976, 1978 and 1981. Plans to dismember Lebanon were joined now to the primary objective of dispersing the Palestinian inhabitants of Lebanon through massacre followed by expulsion.
The invasion was planned jointly with the U.S. government. The Maronite Phalange was part of the project: "When Amin Gemayel visited Washington the previous Fall, he was asked by an American official when the invasion was due." 
Later, when Defense Minister Ariel Sharon visited Washington: "Secretary of State, Alexander Haig, gave the green light for the invasion."
The invasion of Lebanon was launched under the rubric "Peace in the Galilee". Cruel irony! The original inhabitants of the Galilee had lived there for a millennium and were driven out by massacre in 1948. They had settled near Sidon, setting up tents in a refugee camp they called Ain El Helweh, "Sweet Spring".
The camp was organized in areas corresponding to the Galilean communities from which people had come. A miniature Galilee, its areas replicated the villages of the homeland in the Diaspora tent town which was Ain El Helweh.
In 1952, they were allowed to convert tents into permanent structures and they numbered now, some 80,000, the largest Palestinian camp in Lebanon.
On Sunday, June 6, 1982, at 5:30 a.m., intensive aerial bombardment began with the onset of the invasion. The Israelis took Ain El Helweh as a grid, using a saturation-bombing pattern in a series of quadrants. First one quadrant was subjected to carpet-bombing and then the next-methodically and relentlessly, the bombing of each quadrant renewed as the last was levelled. The bombing continued in this manner for ten days and nights. Cluster bombs, concussion bombs, high flaring incendiary bombs and white phosphorus were used.
It was followed by a further ten days of bombardment from the sea and air. Then bulldozers were brought by the Israelis to reduce to rubble what remained standing. Shelters were covered, burying people alive, their frantic family members clutching at the bulldozers. Norwegian health workers who survived, reported:
It smelled like dead bodies everywhere. Everything was devastated.
In The Hidden History of Zionism, Ralph Schoenman identifies four overriding myths that have shaped the consciousness of most people in our society about Zionism. In order to dispel these four prevailing myths, Schoenman examines evidence from various sources to crystallize his own claims and conclusions.
To begin, Schoenman discounts the myth of a vacant and desolate land by examining dialogues between Zionist officials and statements made by leaders. Through these documents Schoenman discovers that Zionist leaders were fully aware of the indigenous population occupying the land and as a result sought to annihilate their existence. For example, Aaron D. Gordon, a prominent Labor Zionist theorist and founder of the Young Workers and Workers of the Zion repeatedly declared that the Palestinians, whom supposedly did not exist from the Zionist perspective, should be forced off the land and prohibited form cultivating it. (Schoenman 17) Indeed, the Zionist settlers attempted to destroy the thriving peasant communities through the "conquest of labor" or "Kiddush avodah". Zionist settlers prohibited Arabs from attaining jobs thereby destroying their livelihood and forcing them to migrate to other areas for jobs or else to live in abject poverty. Ben Gurion ordered that Jewish settlers should "Drive them (the Arabs) out!" (Schoenman 33) Entire villages such as Deir Yesin, Dueima, and Gaza were terrorized and emptied. The Absentee policy took advantage of the vacant Arab lands and re-appropriated them to new Jewish settlers. This policy furthered Zionist claims of a "land without people" because terrified Arabs had left their home. Schoenman concludes that the Zionist maintained this myth in order to seek international approval of establishing the state of Israel while at the same time denying the existence and legitimacy of the Arab Palestinian peoples.
Next, Schoenman attempted to dispel the idea of an "Israeli democracy" that is unique to the Middle Eastern region. In fact, Schoenman finds that Israel's discriminatory practices towards Arabs in the workplace and inhumane treatment of Arab prisoners in the jails around the country are evidence to the fact that Israel does not adhere to the democratic principles of equality before the law despite racial and religious origin. Schoenman identifies official statements and personal case studies to support his argument. First, he points to the "conquest of labor" practices that prohibit Arabs from being hired for most jobs. Indeed, in 1974 the Israeli Minister of Agriculture called the employment of Arabs a "cancer" to society. Schoenman also elucidates the human rights violations committed by Israelis by exhaustively retracing and retelling the personal accounts of many Arab prisoners in Israel. The torturous conditions of Israel prisons are solidified in the "Kutler Report" published in the Ha'aretz journal. That article described prison life as "hell on earth" and identified prisons such as Kfar Yonah, Shattah, and Sarafand as evidence. The overwhelming support Ralph Schoenman unearths in his investigation of "Israeli democracy" reveal that Israel is thoroughly "undemocratic" with respect to the treatment of the Arab minority.
The third myth of the fragile state of Israel security is quickly discounted once Schoenman reveals the personal diaries of Israeli top officials. The general myth that Israel is constantly threatened and attacked by Arab nations and neighbors is quickly shattered when one realizes that Israel has the largest and most powerful army in the region. Also, the state of Israel does not act on the defensive, rather it has expansionist and imperialist forces governing its foreign policy. Schoenman identifies the "Personal Diary of Moshe Sharett" as a primary source to support his claim. For example, Schoenman points to the 1982 invasion of Lebanon as an example of Israeli aggression. He also cites Oded Yinon's article as further support to his claim of Israeli aggression. Oded Yinon, an individual formerly attached to the Foreign Ministry, reflects the high level thinking of the Israeli military establishment in his article "A Strategy for Israeli in the 1980's". In the article Yinon exposes Israel's imperialist plans by pointing to the fragile Arab regimes that are waiting to be pulverized. Though Israeli officials attempt to maintain that Arab nations are the aggressors in the region, Schoenman's discussion of Moshe Sharett's personal diary and Oded Yinon's article expose Israel's true intentions of expansion.
Finally, The Hidden History of Zionism dispels the myth of Zionists acting as the "legatee for Holocaust victims". Schoenman examination of Herzl, Jabotinsky, and the Zionist Federation's dealings with the Nazi party and anti- Semitic organizations reveal that Zionist in fact collaborated and supported the practices of such groups in order to increase immigration into Palestine. Zionism hopeless of combating anti-Semitism paradoxically regarded the anti-Semites themselves as allies because of the shared desire remove Jews from countries in which they lived. Zionist leaders such as Herzl came to regard the anti-Semites as reliable sponsors and protectors for the need for Jewish homeland. For example, Schoenman discovered that Theodor Herzl approached Count Von Plehve of Russia, the author of some horrible pogroms, and stated that "Help me to reach the land (Palestine) sooner and the revolt (against Czarist rule) will end." (Schoenman 47) Also, Jabotinsky, the famous Labor Zionist leader believed that hatred for Jews should be sustained in order to spur further immigration to the land of Israel. Moreover, the Zionist Federation of Germany sent a memorandum of support to the Nazi party on June 21, 1933 that the rebirth of national life in Germany should be followed by example for Jews. Jewish nationalist circles sought the support of the Nazis in maintaining Zionist fervor for a homeland. Schoenman's evidence sheds light on the horrifying accounts of Zionist leaders collaborating with Nazis and anti-Semites that sought to destroy their people. Though Zionists claim to be the saviors of Holocaust victims, the evidence presented in The Hidden History of Zionism reveals that Zionists sought to perpetuate anti-Semitic violence to further the need for a Jewish homeland that could offers Jews a much needed sanctum.
Originally posted by RedBird
Thank you Sky Floating for this thread.
I'm sick and tired of the same old myths and hoaxes being brought up by people as justification for their hatred towards the Jewish people.
I've been saying it over and over and over again as loud as I have been able, and people need to hear it: There is no such thing as "Palestinians". It's a made up nationality whose only purpose is to create a "victim" whose troubles can be blamed on a "Zionist Conspiracy"
Star and Flag!
Originally posted by AbuMusaab
reply to post by Skyfloating
We Muslims have a begrudging respect, which I talk about with my brothers here, for the Jews. You work together, you are typically united, especially when you have a goal, and you keep each other in positions of power and in wealth.
We are beginning to slowly emulate that model. Too bad it took us this long, but we will catch up faster than you think, insha'Allah.
Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by Steam
Over half of the world's billionaires are Jewish, and you're telling me they don't control the world? Ha! Big thumbs down for this thread, which is pro-Zionist propaganda.
Originally posted by Jeanius
This is disgusting DISINFO coming from a mod.
Yet alone she put a few of her other disinfo threads in at the bottom to try to get them across too.
THIS IS WHO MODS THIS SITE!!
AMERICANS BROUGHT NAZI'S BACK, FORGAVE THEM OF ALL CRIMES, AND PUT THEM IN KEY ROLES IN GOVERNMENT AND INDUSTRY WHICH WOULD SHAPE THE NATION FOR YEARS TO COME!!!
And you're mad that Hezbolah does the Hitler salute! psh!
edit on 24-11-2010 by Jeanius because: (no reason given)