tsa patdowns, what is the big deal.................really?

i hate the fact that this is going on, so don't get me wrong here, but i've been a bit of an outlaw all my life.
not in any sort of violent way, but i don't at all conform to the norm.
i have long hair, a beard, i live in an r.v., am self employed, under the table, yada yada.
my point here is, if i get pulled over by law enforcement, or encounter them in any manner,
about the first thing mentioned is, we need to search you and/or your vehicle.
sure this is profiling against me, sure at times i let them, and others i spend hours on the side of the road, waiting for supervisors and the like.
so, now that the t.s.a. basically has the same authority to search me as any other law enforcement agency,
what is the big deal?
besides every american now being me and understanding that we really have no right to travel freely,
is there some explanation someone can give me so i can sympathize with your plight of having some dude in a uniform grab your junk.

I will copypasta what I wrote on another thread:

--"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, and Warrants shall not be issued, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

So where is the warrant, describing the place to be searched, and the things to be seized, supported by Oath or affirmation that there is probable cause, against every single person that decides to buy a plane ticket?

If there is not one, it is unconstitutional, plain and simple. --

reply to post by rubbertramp


Its the new hotness to be upset about this

its been going on for years and years without any noise...and suddenly some kid got a neat viral video...the public, desperate for something to break up their routine day, decided to become angry.

its nonsense that has a shelf life of a couple months, then will go back into obscurity once they realize its not a partisan stand either way...both sides have people for and against it...and since it isn't a big dividing wedge issue, the steam will quickly run out.

reply to post by rubbertramp


When you get pulled over and a cop asks to search your personal belongings you have the right to say no. I've personally done it 2 times and both times the man gave me a stern look and told me to go on about my business. What the TSA is doing is completely different. Either you WILL submit to a radioactive "screening" or you WILL be basicaly molested by a random stranger. IF you choose to do neither you will be SUED. Last time i checked a cop can't SUE you because you didn't allow them to search your PERSONAL belongings.

MOTF!

im more of a lurker than a poster..

however in a way i support the OPs point, whats the big fussed about being padded down. i can see two sides of the arguments. Yes ok grabbing my bits i wouldnt be to happy with but at least ill be making my searchee jealous (sorry poor joke) and i can understand that people may feel violated if this is done to them

however on the other side of the fence.. if you have nothing to hide then why all the big deal about being searched and padded down. Ok so my searchee has grabbed my bits, they are happy with the search (maybe in more ways than one) they dont find anything incriminating and im aloud to go on my way, ill probably never see the person again.

but this is just my view which sometimes doesnt count

Originally posted by Lemon.Fresh
I will copypasta what I wrote on another thread:

--"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, and Warrants shall not be issued, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

So where is the warrant, describing the place to be searched, and the things to be seized, supported by Oath or affirmation that there is probable cause, against every single person that decides to buy a plane ticket?

If there is not one, it is unconstitutional, plain and simple. --

Of course a pat down is -not- a search. ever been pulled over by a cop? they pat you down half the time..but do not search you until you are properly arrested.

also what isn't a search...a cop looking into your car. they need permission to search, or a warrant. With the new laws, there is the probable cause clause of course.
a cop can touch the exterior of your car...and can, with your permission, give you a patdown (actually, they rarely ask permission...however TSA does...gives you every option to refuse and you do -not- get arrested for refusing...you just can't pass the point until you do

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh

and Warrants shall not be issued, but upon probable cause

you might as well just toss out the constitution due to this one line.
you're probably a terrorist
i've probably got weed
on and on, this issue has been hammered down into insignificance for years.

This may add some clarity!

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
reply to post by rubbertramp

 

When you get pulled over and a cop asks to search your personal belongings you have the right to say no. I've personally done it 2 times and both times the man gave me a stern look and told me to go on about my business. What the TSA is doing is completely different. Either you WILL submit to a radioactive "screening" or you WILL be basicaly molested by a random stranger. IF you choose to do neither you will be SUED. Last time i checked a cop can't SUE you because you didn't allow them to search your PERSONAL belongings.

MOTF!

of course i have the right to say no, hense i mentioned hours on the side of the road waiting for a supervisor, who usually allows me to be on my way.
yet,

Either you WILL submit to a radioactive "screening" or you WILL be basicaly molested by a random stranger.

and with the search issue, you can be held for 72 hours in lock up if law enforcement choses to do so.

reply to post by rubbertramp


i fly a few times a month, this is a hassle, however I don't look at it as a viloation of rights. Unfortunately there are some crazy people out there that have already done damage (9/11) and will continue to try and do crazy things. The decision by the TSA is for our safety. And if you have nothing to hide, there is no big deal. I would rather be hassled there for a minute or two than be up in the air and some crazy person do something.

I believe SOME people on this site complain, because that's what they like to do. They probably don't even get near a airport.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Years and years

Exaggerate much?

--Schiphol in the Netherlands was the first airport in the world to implement this device on a large scale after a test with flight personnel the previous year. On May 15, 2007 two of 17 purchased security scans were installed.--

Source

Yep, they sure have been in place a very long time

As for invasive pat downs. Those have been around forever as well! Not!

--The Transportation Security Administration is phasing-in its "enhanced pat-down" procedures at airports across the country.

The TSA says the pat-downs are used after an alarm is sounded in a walk-through metal detector.

Critics say the aggressive searches are more invasive, allowing contact with body parts that were previously off-limits.--

Source

--WASHINGTON – The head of the Transportation Security Administration is acknowledging that the new pat-downs are more invasive than what travelers were used to in the past.--


You want me to continue?

reply to post by rubbertramp


So where in this supposed 72 hour detention do I have to pay 11 grand for exercising my rights?

MOTF!

Well, well said..
Really what is the big deal people someone touches your pennis or something. Cmon get over it, its an appendage that hangs from your body. It seems people just want something to whinge about. If is not like OMG someone has touched my pennis its like OMG the worlds going to end.. Sort your heads out plz..x

reply to post by SaturnFX


Where has all this been going on? I must of missed it all. I have never pat down at an airport or anywhere for that matter. The police have never asked to search my car and I have never been frisked either.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


yes, and this is my point.
the t..s.a. now can pat you down in the same manner as any law enforcement officer.

I just think it's funny that this subject had a 99.9% public outrage contingency until a few days ago when across multiple forums at the exact same time you started to see the "it's no big deal" threads popping up at the same rate as the outraged threads did.

It's just as bad as the Palestine/Israel debate and I believe it to be so for the same reasons.

No one in their right mind would be OK with the current procedures. Those who say it's no big deal are either shills or people who have never flown in their life. The so called terrorist who we blame for 9/11 were Islamic extremist. We're allowing them to pass through security in burkas and not properly matching ID with the faces. We're allowing them to claim religious exemption from the procedures while they stick their hands down the underwear of grandma and little Timmy. We do this all while our borders are not secure. Forget someone smuggling 1lb of C4 up their rectums or an inkjet cartridge filled with PETN. They could drive a ton of it across the borders with little resistance. The problem is the way it's done coupled with the fact that it's ridiculous to begin with. The whole thing is like washing your hands before you go to the bathroom but not after.

reply to post by MessOnTheFED!


i heard about the 11k story.
has anyone been actually fined yet?
just wondering.

reply to post by Lemon.Fresh


Pat downs have been around for ages...this "enhanced" stuff is new..I have no clue what the difference is from regular pat down verses "enhanced". I guess thats the "junk touch" bit...well, close enough anyhow.

Thing is though, you can refuse. currently the fine thing is stupid..it should be a quick turnaround...say no to scan, say no to pat down, about face and get out. I don't agree with the potential suit..that is the best argument about all of this to begin with and the only valid aspect of the outrage.

Originally posted by MessOnTheFED!
you WILL be molested by a random stranger. !

'molester - someone who subjects others to unwanted or improper sexual activities'

Now getting a thorough pat down is not exactly sexual. Well it might be for you but I assure you its not for most people. Stop being a king of overstatement. Im getting bored of people whinging about the TSA. There is far more important and more intersting things happening in the world.
kx