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TSA Modifies Pat Downs/Protests dated for 11/24/10

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posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
 


Also why is finding other transportation an illogical reply? Again you don't need to fly... How is that illogical. I never said it wouldn't take longer or be cost affective but it certainly isn't illogical. Hey check this article out too: latimesblogs.latimes.com...

Was on a few pages earlier but it states that people who were asked to poll, about 2000 people total, that the ones who didn't like the procedure would seek other forms of travel!!! Wow I suppose alot of people are illogical!
edit on 24-11-2010 by NoJoker13 because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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I'm so sick and tired of people just being so stupid that they cant understand what the hell is going on here. How is this patdown even remotely constitutional? Explain that to me. How is it constitutional or even right for a minimum wage braindead mouth-breather to put their hands all over your wife or child? HOW IS IT THAT PEOPLE CAN ACTUALLY SUPPORT THIS?! The police cant even do these patdowns and its ok for the #in TSA?

We live in a country that was founded on the idea that its better to be FREE than to be SAFE! That being said even if this all was being done to protect you you'd have a better chance of being hit by lightning than being attacked by the boogey men hiding in the caves. Those who trade freedom for safety deserve neither? Who said it people?

The point is OP where do we draw the line? Do we draw it here and now and stop this invasion of our rights RIGHT HERE or do we wait until our children have to go through the radiation box and pat downs on a daily basis to go to school? What happens when some nut goes through the airport with a box up his ass? Do we submit to a full cavity search?

The simple fact is, this isnt even happening in China and yet the American people (especially people like the OP) actually sit by and let it happen HERE in a country thats supposed to be free.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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Originally posted by NoJoker13
Still this doesn't bother me at all... I don't see this as being "unconstitutional" if I'm fine with it, that means to me this isn't infringing on the constitution.


This is puzzling. You seem to have the opinion that if YOU don't object to it, that means it's constitutional. That's not true. The number of people objecting to it has NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether or not it's constitutional.

Let's look at the 4th Amendment again:



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The "oath or affirmation" clause pertains to the probable cause. In other words, if a cop wants to search you, he must make an oath or affirmation to a judge that he has probable cause in order to obtain a warrant. Not only that, he has to describe the place to be searched and the things he's looking for.

I was unsure of the constitutionality of this before but that's no longer the case. I am convinced it's unconstitutional.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 01:57 PM
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Why not implement the kind of security procedures and measures the Israelis use on their airlines? Don’t they do background checks from the moment the reservation is booked? If somewhere in the depths of the governmental complex all databases are being combined into one or can be accessed by a few, why not conduct background checks after each reservation is booked & paid? This can be done for domestic and international flights. What about their screeners/security people that use behavioral profiling?

Also, after 9/11 weren’t sniffer machines/sensors installed in many cities because of the scare of a dirty bomb? Couldn’t sniffer machines be calibrated to detect a list of specific chemicals and placed throughout airports and planes?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:00 PM
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All of the problems discussed in this thread could be adequately addressed, IMHO, if our Gov decides to get serious about security and make street theater and political correctness take a back seat to pragmatic solutions.
First, I believe that the Trusted Travelers Program needs to emerge from bureaucratic stagnation and procrastination and be implemented. Personally, as a frequent flyer and a holder of a security clearance, I am not offended with having my biometrics registered and a thorough criminal and background check. I am also a member of the reconstituted Clear program. Vetted flyers can proceed directly to the metal detector and carry-on scan. Should the metal detector be set off, then a physical search could be warranted. However, these AIT scanners and patdowns should be the secondary method of screening, not the primary.
Second, this country needs to grow up. There is a vast abyss between racial profiling and criminal profiling. Having flown abroad, I can personally attest to how thorough the Israelis are before you board a plane. They look you in the eyes and ask questions. Heaven forbid a TSA officer ever looks you in the eyes and asks for anything more than your ID. Each individual is processed as an individual. They examine your passport and its boarder control stamps. They want to know “who you are”, which is more important than what you carry. The TSA claims it uses advanced relational databases, but I suspect they are limited to their watchlists.
I have several friends who are in nuclear medicine. When I asked them about the AIT backscatter (BKSX) machines, they unanimously stated that they would not go through them and neither should I. The FDA’s evaluation of radiation dose was based on full body volume. However, the flux of the beam is not meant to penetrate the whole body and concentrates on the skin to produce the image. This results in an effective dose that is at least 20x the stated dose by the FDA. Do you trust a Gov evaluation of a Gov device? Do some simple research. Look at the opinions of Dr. David J. Brenner of Columbia University’s Center for Radiological Research. This is one of many opinions from respected scientists. It was also pointed out that, to continue the charade, TSA will not allow its employees to wear radiological dosimeters.
I am not a subscriber to conspiracy theories, by nature. However, I am starting to believe that there is indeed ulterior motives for this onslaught against the 4th Amendment (“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”). I hope I am wrong. I want to be safe in my travels…but at what price? A police state? Where is the line to be drawn?
Happy Thanksgiving all. Be safe in you travels and joyous with your families.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:05 PM
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reply to post by proof-would-be-good
 


The Israeli way would be even more against the constitution then this procedure right now. The Israeli security uses racial profiling, illegal background checks of anyone flying, illegal credit checks on what you have been purchasing, and openly question you about your travel plans. Their would be an even greater uproar from this, especially after the first 100 muslims in the door were refused their flight.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by Sandbar
 


Others would have a problem with this, having to submit to background check etc. It would be just opening another can of cries for change.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:08 PM
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We don't need to do what Israel does. All we need to do is train dogs.
They would never have let the shoe bomber or the underwear bomber by.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


I do like the dog idea, although to train them to smell all substances still wouldn't be foolproof either. But I do agree it would help on a large scale. When I was in Miami Int. there were quite a few dogs, I'd say I counted 10 and pet 2.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 02:14 PM
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I'm all for the dogs, BH. They are quite effective at Port of Entry boarder control and customs. No problem with that. As for the "intrusive" background checks, that can be voluntary. I, for one, have already gone through that and continue to go through them every three years. I have nothing to hide. If you choose not to go in that direction, then submit to the porn scan or patdown and don’t complain too much.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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Yeah you don't get it at all. We don't want to get the radiation from the scanners and we don't accept that we can be molested by TSA thugs either. It's all about control. They've already admitted that they won't even pat down Muslim women who refuse the scanners! LOL What a joke that is.

The TSA lied and said their machines couldn't store the images and now we know the images have been stored and will be stored. This is all about taking away your freedoms. More people die from bee stings every year than from terrorism in the United States but you apparently like to give up your freedoms for the nanny state. True patriots understand that we have FAR more to fear from our government than the terrorists. We don't accept the new world order police grid and never will. Most that accept this tyranny and just cowards and don't deserve the freedoms their founding fathers gave them.

What we do know is that our own government got the underwear bomber on the plane and that Chertoff bought the scanners and now is CEO of the scanner company which is a total FRAUD!

So even if YOU are not man enough to fight for your freedoms, stay out of the way for the others that are going to have to do it for you. Homeland Security was made for the American citizens not men in caves. It's time to grow up.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by GlennCanady
They've already admitted that they won't even pat down Muslim women who refuse the scanners!


They have not. That's a stupid rumor.

CAIR suggested that Muslim women ask that they not be scanned and only be searched around the head and neck. But TSA doesn't treat them any differently than anyone else.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Heretic I'm asking you not to get involved in this one, he stated that I was afraid of the "terrorist boogie man". So I answered back are you afraid they'll see your small package, although it was mean I wasn't the first to insult.


Now Joker, you have just shown yourself to have crossed a line and are not recognizing that you have proven the reason against this,
How?, can you ask someone NOT to participate in something they will be FORCED to participate in?
Whether in debate or in actual procedure, as they are affected by all of this, there's no 'off' switch, or selector switch, we're all in this.
You are proving yourself and your argument to be myopic,
are you of the mind that it is now more important to be "right" or for this entire situation to be 'correct'?
There is a marked difference, and it's a drastic difference.

The percentages provided as to how many in the population desire this are derived from where? and are presented by whom?
The machine that I showed you earlier in this thread is a million dogs sniffing every known thing its asked to sniff,
it was designed for this, and yes coupled with a metal detector it would quell all of this crap,
So why was it abandoned? and why would they stir the pot?
Unless there is a 'problem reaction solution' going on right in front of us at this moment, I dont see any logic in this except profit and to steer a population to a desired end.
B.H. does not stand alone with this childhood scar, and THAT is even after the fact of addressing the 4th.
Why are you insisting on running to your shackles?
I guess some background on you would help in that determination, age, marital status, children, life experience up to this point etc etc,



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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Well Glenn, I assume your post was for me, and for that I take a personal offense. Until you have faced live fire and an enemy intent on killing you (as opposed to sitting your mom’s basement expressing your opinion), as I have, do not question my manhood or impose your own definition upon me. There are bad people out in the real world intent on doing us, and you, harm. Face it.
Obviously, you did not read my original post. I am not an advocate of surrendering our 4th Amendment rights. I personally fought to protect them. I am not an advocate of the current TSA screening procedures either; only for common sense. I made a choice to “surrender” certain personal information as a due course of my employment, having also done so in the military. That was my choice. You have yours, and I respect that position. Just don’t demean me for it. If you have something intelligent to express, other than sedition, please do so.
I find it curiously interesting how many people beat their chests for defense of our rights, and yet when the time comes to but yourself on the line, the position is quite contrary. If your post was not targeted at me, Glenn, I apologize…my sensitivity may be affected by that second glass of Oban. I wish you well.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by NoJoker13
 
Have you no compassion?some of the people that have to be patted down have been humiliated stripped in front of the public,have been harassed embaressed,and not to mentioned our rights as an American citizen to move freely in our country of birth.(and the people that have been molested in their life who can't stand the thought of anyone touching them)I have three children,and to even think of letting them go through a scanner a recieve a dose of radiation and yes it will do harm why do you think radiologist put a lead apron on you when getting a xray?And if you have to travel frequently how many doses would it take before you get cancer?Oh and the "pat downs"can you imagine(this makes my skin crawl) a pervert patting down your teenage daughter or son?maybe you need to look your morals over and see if you have any,and find a bit of compassion for other people.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by TWILITE22
 


Not really unless you earn it.

2nd line.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 05:24 PM
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14 pages long, so far--with only one star of approval...

I wonder if this is an ATS record?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by NoJoker13
reply to post by Y2KJMan
 


And at that time when 911 happened, were you protesting at the airport for terrorist rights? No you were screaming for more sanctions and higher security. So I'll again ask everyone, what did you expect to happen? Also regardless of whether or not you "think" this technology helps or not it does and like I said the next one will be able to see your lunch.


Because when a chaotic incident like the events of 911 occur it tends to send a palpable and rippling fear throughout the entire population. It also brings the nation closer together, unified by a desire for vengeance and war. Like a football game on a severely more grim and larger scale. The federal government took advantage of this chaos and is slowly leading the American population into a future police state.

So I sarcastically apologize that we as the American people decided to put faith and trust into our own governing body to do what is right by the people, yet instead this same governing body opted to exploit the chaos (like it did with the economic collapse as well) in order to seize more control over the flock.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:20 PM
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reply to post by NoJoker13
 


You are dense. It's illogical because it takes so long. People have jobs. There is no way to travel to other countries as quickly as by plane. If you don't see how this is illogical you are an idiot. Those people that would say that were making a general statement. The question wasn't detailed so it is irrelevant. If they had to travel from the U.S. to Japan on business and back to work in a timely fashion they would be forced to endure the process again.
You are senseless.




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