N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Originally posted by Mercenary2007
The reason the U.S. hasn't bombed NK nuke facilities is because the second after the bombs fell NK would pull the chain on every artillery piece they have and level Seoul! Not something the U.S. wants.

Also there is the international backlash. every country always wants the U.S. to do something to save the world but yet every time we do, do something everyone pisses and moans about it!

But have no fear if this escalates and i do mean IF don't worry your pretty little head because Obama will have no choice in the matter but to enter the war. after all the U.S. is technically still at war with NK as is SK and the U.S. has several defense treaties with SK as well that legally Obama will have to abide by. And technically any attack on SK is an attack on the U.S. because of those defense treaties! And if this actually goes to a shooting war we all will see what a real war is like to fight. fighting NK is not going to be easy. even for the U.S. even with all our advanced tech. And as for China. I doubt they will aid the north. they only intervened in the 50's because the U.S. was within miles of China's borders and Mac Arther didn't want to stop his advance. he wanted to continue on through China!

Pretty solid analysis. That is exactly how this would play out; which I agree probably won't.

Pentagon war planners agree that it would be a costly conflict. Many of the contingency plans are publicly available. . Oh I forgot, we are just going to nuke the entire region instead.

NK thanks to Rummy has cobalt 60
that might not be a big kabang, but if it gets into the atmosphere everybody dies just the same
and everyone at the table knows it

PSdrop a nuke on a stock pile of that and thats that

reply to post by WeRpeons


calm down before you pee your pants, I never said I was okay with it, I am simply stating that due to the circumstances, we have an obligation that we can't simply ignore.


I would like to see everyone of our troops to return home as well.

reply to post by 1FutureMarine1


Are you actually angry that this has not turned into all-out war?

Originally posted by gs001
reply to post by oozyism

 

Why do you guys believe China is interested in war?
NK wants war because it is in big trouble economically and politically,
The hegemony wants war because it is declining, only war can keep its power.
China, on the contrary, is rising, time is on China's side. just keep growth peacefully,
China will finally reach its goal to be NO.1 in the world,
war is unnecessary for China.

Read the links I posted, China wants influence, and wants to get rid of US dominance from its neighboring countries.

You would too, if the only thing US has brought to your neighboring countries is war and conflict, and unjust, one sided policy.

US should concentrate on itself, and its own neighbors, like Mexico.

Don't forget, China and USA don't like each other
China would love to see US collapse.

Absolutly Nothing will ever happen with north korea... nothing

All that will ever happen is the same thing that has been going on for years

But no war will ever come of it, the world will condem it if anything did kick off and intervene, does anybody seriously believe the world wants a WWIII over this lunatic, it would end in the total destruction of the enire planet, don't be so silly, this lunatic "Kim Jong ill" will make his self look an even bigger idiot soon and if anything the World will get rid of him together, nobody in this day & age is going to risk WWIII over this nutcase in peyongyang, END OFF

reply to post by 1FutureMarine1


He was not defending the leadership, he was defending the people. They did not ask to have Kim for a leader and sanctions only hurt them, not him.

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by gs001
reply to post by oozyism

 

Why do you guys believe China is interested in war?
NK wants war because it is in big trouble economically and politically,
The hegemony wants war because it is declining, only war can keep its power.
China, on the contrary, is rising, time is on China's side. just keep growth peacefully,
China will finally reach its goal to be NO.1 in the world,
war is unnecessary for China.

Read the links I posted, China wants influence, and wants to get rid of US dominance from its neighboring countries.

You would too, if the only thing US has brought to your neighboring countries is war and conflict, and unjust, one sided policy.

US should concentrate on itself, and its own neighbors, like Mexico.

Don't forget, China and USA don't like each other

China would love to see US collapse.

Sorry Oozy But China loves the U.S. we buy all their cheap azz stuff. they won't do anything to go against their biggest importer. They also won't do anything to risk loosing their billions of dollars they have let the U.S. borrow from them.

reply to post by Sentinel412


I am saying that we could win an all out war, due to the publicity of every single war, America has to take very sensitive measures. We can't just go to afghan and those other places and say yee haw, lets blow this place up and be done with it. We would make more enemies. Those wars was lost before they even started because it was a rouge group with disinformation scattered everywhere. I was saying if a war due to nuclear concerns, as I even mentioned. If North Korea fired a nuke, the place would be nothing but ashes minutes later.

Hasnt been a lot said here In Australia this morning but here Is a few things coming out now If anyone's Interested.


US President Barack Obama has pledged the United States will defend South Korea after what the White House branded an outrageous attack by North Korea on its neighbour.

news.ninemsn.com.au...

S.Korea suspends N.Korea flood aid

news.ninemsn.com.au...

reply to post by NeverApologize


Carpet bombing during the Vietnam War was a policing mission?

Afghanistan and Iraq were not policing missions. The invasion of Afghanistan was revenge, as was the invasion of Iraq. And Iraq didn't actually do anything to the US.

reply to post by kyrebelyell2004

Okay. I see your point now and in this case you're right.

2nd line.

reply to post by 1FutureMarine1


What's this "We"? If you are American, you are not part of that "we." America only got involved when it was attacked.

Well it's been 20 hours since first Post so i'm thinking everything will be fine once again,,
Wo were the original Signatories of the Korean Armistance? more than U.S i would think ,,if memory serves.

Originally posted by BobAthome
Well it's been 20 hours since first Post so i'm thinking everything will be fine once again,,
Wo were the original Signatories of the Korean Armistance? more than U.S i would think ,,if memory serves.

Link

reply to post by Sentinel412


What do you consider a win or loss to be, in war?

You say we lost Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. First off, we are still fighting in Afghanistan, so logic tells me we haven't lost that one.

Okay you have to look at military/geopolitical objectives here. First, take a look at WW2. What was our objective? (We had two main objectives; there were two main fronts, Europe and the Pacific) The European objective was to stop Hitler from dominating Europe and turning the entire continent into a Nazi Super Continent, which would then become nearly invincible and spread to the entire world. Hitler made fatal mistakes (spread too thin, attacked Russia in winter) and sealed his own fate. We defeated him with our allies' help. The Pacific objective was basically a revenge strike to cripple the Japanese war machine for their unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor, and because they were allied with Hitler. We saw that we were suffering heavy casualties against the Japanese, and raced to finish development of our A-bomb, which when ready, we used on two key targets, thus prompting the swift Japanese surrender. Viola: war won. We "won" WW2 by stopping Hitler, and invoking the Japanese surrender at all costs, because continued fighting would have resulted in thousands, possibly millions, of more casualties that the US just wasn't too keen on.

After that, war was changed forever. Wars spawn new technologies, conventional and unconventional. WW1 paved the way for WW2, which paved the way for all future wars up until now.

So what was our objective in Korea? Well, Korea was occupied by Japan for many years. After their surrender in WW2, the US and USSR split Korea at the ominous 38th parallel. Well, in 1950, Chinese and USSR backed Northern troops decided to invade the South, thus sparking the Korean War (which is still in progress). Our objective at that point was primarily to defend the Southern territory and secondarily to push Northern troops clean off the Korean peninsula. Thanks to China's military and USSR's resources, we were unable to push them into China, and the use of nukes was completely out of the question. So we all signed the armistice in 1953, thus ending the conflict and protecting the country of South Korea, which has allowed it to flourish into a well developed world power. So did we accomplish our task? Primarily, yes. We defended South Korea. We prevented the North from completely eliminating the South and establishing an entirely communist Korean peninsula ruled by Kim il-Sung, and subsequently Kim Jong-il. Imagine a world where modern day South Korea never existed, and North Korea was simply DPRoK encompassing the entire Korean peninsula, with big brother China looking out for it. It would have developed into a much more menacing and well-armed communist power. I do not consider the Korean War to be lost in the slightest. Did we accomplish everything we wanted? Not quite, but we prevented a grave catastrophe and paved the way for the South to flourish.

Geez, after all that dialogue on the Korean War, I really don't feel like explaining wins/losses of Vietnam or Iraq. But use your common sense. Vietnam was a pretty stupid war, and we realized that too late for the 60,000 dead US troops and millions of Vietnamese. I won't even go into that war, but you can call it what you like. Failed police action is what I call it (loss).

Edit:
So my original question: What do you consider a win or loss to be, in war?
Why do you think we lost the Korean War, or the Vietnam War, or the Iraq War, or the Afghanistan War for that matter? I'm genuinely curious why you think we have lost every war... It sounds to me like you are just repeating what you have heard from people who enjoy ignorantly bashing the US and its military. A little education on the matter goes a long way.

reply to post by BobAthome


South Korea, North Korea, China and the United States and the United Nations were the major signatories of the Armistice Agreement to end the Korean war

reply to post by Mercenary2007

A ceasefire was reached on July 27, 1953, to halt the conflict and establish a demilitarized zone. However, no peace treaty has been signed to date, technically leaving North Korea at war with the United States and South Korea.

Text Source
My two cents.
Take it for what's it worth.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Nope , yet again you either miss my point or deliberately ignore it and instead retort with insults . I originally replied to your comment below .

posted on 23-11-2010 @ 07:36 PM this post

WTH are you talking about? After North Korea invaded and pushed the South Korean and US forces all the way back. Mac Arthur ordered the US Marines to land behind their lines at the western port city of Inchon. Then the Southern forces maneuvered a break out hooked up and pushed the North Koreans all the way up to the chinese border.

I was making the point originally ( around p44 ) that no nation on the earth with perhaps the exception of China , had the might to invade NK . Your reply began as above . I replied that the original Korean war ended in a stalemate despite the numerous strong allies on either side and that NK had spent the last 60 years preparing for this eventuality .

I dont see where you proved my ignorance of anything and only in fact have shown yours by your repeated attempts to insult me , which will i will list below ,

Welcome to a well known festering situation that's been going on for over 55 years.

No insult you say though you imply i have no knowledge on the subject .

. Crack open a real history book and let the Online Conspiracy BS die already.

No insult you say ?

Are you are a legend in your own mind as well?

Again no insult ? Perhaps this passes as intelligent debate where you come from ?

Crack open a REAL history book from the library of your choice and see how many times the North has threatened a war with the South when anyone in Seoul farted in the wrong direction.

No insult ? Hmmmm

When hurricane Katrina or any of the other off topic comments you have made become relevant to this thread then I'll comment. You can go on and on about whatever you wish.

I am

While you do have a point about Katrina being off topic , you completely ignore the questions i asked you as you have completely ignored almost every post made by hattorihanzou , who seems to be far more knowledgeable on this subject than you or i put together .

Back we go then to my original questions , for which , see below ,

So what exactly is your point ? I dont see it at all other than attacking me because i have a different viewpoint than you , hold on a second ....you're not american are you ?......

The korean war in the 50's ended in stalemate , neither side could win even with the aid of thier numerous strong allies .

The vietnam war ended with a communist victory after 10 or more years of US of A aid , financial as well as military .......

These are facts are they not ? And i think you'll find , if you care to look , that nowhere have i accused the US of involvement in the recent shelling .

So , slayer , after repeated insults on a number of posts you still haven't answered my questions . I dont even care if you do or not as i know the answers to them already as does our esteemed contemporary HattoriHanzou , who you also have completely ignored . As for your last insult about where exactly do i get my information from ....see your comments above .....As a resident of somewhere in the world other than the US , a visitor on a number of occasions in your country and an avid reader on this website , I can quite categorically say that the vast proportion of your countrymen and women are ill informed . You need only read some of the bizarre comments in this here thread to see that .

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


not really sure what your getting at. a ceasefire and an Armistice Agreement are basically the same thing. it stops the war so work on a peace treaty can proceed. if all parties involved are willing to work towards peace. if not the cease fire or Armistice Agreement remains in effect until 1 or both sides violate it. thus resulting in the continuation of the war.