N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

Expats recalled as North Korea prepares for war

A mass exodus of North Korean workers from the Far East of Russia is under way, according to reports coming out of the region. As the two Koreas edged towards the brink of war this week, it appears that the workers in Russia have been called back to aid potential military operations.

Vladnews agency, based in Vladivostok, reported that North Korean workers had left the town of Nakhodka en masse shortly after the escalation of tension on the Korean peninsula earlier this week. "Traders have left the kiosks and markets, workers have abandoned building sites, and North Korean secret service employees working in the region have joined them and left," the agency reported.

Russia's migration service said that there were over 20,000 North Koreans in Russia at the beginning of 2010, of which the vast majority worked in construction. "Workers are often sent to remote locations for years at a time to work long hours and get as little as three days off per year." Now it appears that some kind of centralised order has been given for the workers to return home.

Link

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Tsuki-no-Hikari

 

Why don't the SK have a reason to provoke NK?

I believe they do after they accused NK for sinking their ship a few months ago.

Because it's far too dangerous for them to. Remember, NK could decimate Seoul at any time. SK's leaders know this. It makes little sense to provoke a volatile country with nuclear capabilities. SK has everything to lose and nothing to gain.

I'd still like to see your source. If it's just more of NK's ramblings, then you don't need to pay it any heed.

reply to post by jonny2410

To be fair, South Korea has every right to carry out any drills they wish, but at the same time common sense must be called upon, especially when these drills took place near/on the NLL - an obviously bad place. I think it was this common-sense, that was required, that was absent due to the increased tension and animosity in the region over the last few months.

Yeah that's what I say. When you don't want to start a war, you don't do drills in the NLL especially if the North said they would carry out military strikes.

Thought were sending the USS George Washington to provoke them on sunday?? I can't wait to see north korea do nothing while staring down the big old ship all they will do is keep on whining like big babies..

It's starts on SUNDAY, as you said. And as you said, nothing will probably happen.

Thing is... and you've all seem to have missed it...

THE SOUTH KOREAN DRILL IN THE NLL WILL RESTART IN MID-DECEMBER.

North Korea might strike again that time. If they do, since the South is already pissed, that would lead us to full war.

Clearly this is a good sign. North Korea are, in their own way, trying to diffuse the situation. They very rarely apologise publically but this time it matches the seriousness of the crisis.

Yep. The North said they would carry out MILITARY STRIKES... and as I said earlier in this thread, two days ago I think, North Korea intent was probably just to bomb the military base but due to their crappy artillery, they hit the area around it...where civilians lived.

Why don't the SK have a reason to provoke NK?

I believe they do after they accused NK for sinking their ship a few months ago.

Yeah but nobody believed that the North sunk that ship. Not China or Russia.

But they will be carried out in the West Sea, which is pissing NK off anyway.

At this point it's pissing off China more.

howdy all! Just thought I'd throw my two cents in. I disagree with the notion that this could be a false flag. The North has given the South (and the world) plenty of legitimate reasons to attack before, but they have shown impressive restraint. If the desire to attack was that strong, it seems like we would have moved in sooner. Kimmy's insanity, combined with the regime change, is a much more realistic scenario. His ability to tread fine lines (while occasionally crossing them) is legendary. This time he just may have gone too far. The next day or two could be huge, with their current threats and rhetoric about the war games.

This leads me into my question, however. Why on earth are we ignoring their actions? And why are we ignoring their threats to not only destroy SK, but to actually nuke (destroy) the US? Now I know that its a lot of huff and puff, but come on. Didn't we invade Iraq for much less? I don't get why we allow them to continue with this blatant disregard for the safety of other countries (they are actually testing nukes and making threats). It seems like NK is a country we actually SHOULD be focusing on. We have a civil war happening in Mexico, affecting our borders, and NK shelling another country (and threatening much worse), yet do nothing. But we spend billions annually fighting "terrorists", in a war we can never win. Please, someone explain these backwards views to me in a way that I can understand. Apparently I'm not smart enough to get it .

Don't get me wrong, Kim Jong Il have earned himself HUNDREDS OF REASONS to be nuked into oblivion. But this ain't one of them.

More news.

# #DPRK also blaming US for prompting #Koreas confrontation as excuse to increase American military presence here. 4 minutes ago via TweetDeck

# DPRK apparently coming as close as it can to an apology for #ROK civilian deaths on Yeonpyeong, terming it "regrettable" if true. 19 minutes ago via TweetDeck

# Yonhap: #ROK Pres. Lee tells military to be prepared for more #DPRK attacks during US-ROK joint war games (which start Sunday). #Koreas\ 20 minutes ago via TweetDeck

# Those protesting at Defense Ministry in Seoul today claimed to be ex-members of elite military squad trained for spy missions against #DPRK. 36 minutes ago via TweetDeck

The thing that bugs me is the report that Vitchilo first found about the NK ex-pats being re-called from Russia. Some 20,000 or so of them...

I mean, these workers bring money straight into the coffers of North Korea so to cease all work and bring them back, where food is already scarce, seems to be a pretty big event.

It signals to me that either this time war is a very big possibility, or more likely, that North Korea is not in control of events this time and is being cautious.

Please explain how this isn't one of them. I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't fully understand. I was under the impression that SK was only performing annual (regular) war games. Even if they were firing NEAR the NK border, or even into their waters, does it really justify shelling an island with dozens and dozens of shells? They were fully aware (and probably aroused ) that they were endangering civilian lives with their actions. They didn't target military structure. They leveled houses. How can this be spun around? Nothing justifies the murder of innocent people.

Originally posted by jonny2410


It signals to me that either this time war is a very big possibility, or more likely, that North Korea is not in control of events this time and is being cautious.

Or maybe Russia is just sick of dealing with NK too, haha. I don't understand why ANYONE cooperates with them anymore.

reply to post by Itzpointless


A war against NK wont justify the killing either. It will only lead to more killings that need to be justified. What most people here are arguing towards is a war based on revenge and anger. The irony here is that everyone also say that they pray that it wont happen. What a double standard.

reply to post by spy66


I understand that war should be avoided at all costs. I'm also aware of what NK would do to Seoul within minutes with their artillery. But how long can we let these go on. Over the years they have attacked ships, islands, civilians, and made many threats to do worse. I understand that NK is just the annoying kid who loves attention. But i also know from experience, that eventually something WILL happen to that kid. Someone will eventually grow tired, and put a stop to it. You can't just allow them to continue pushing and pushing the boundaries, especially as their nuclear arsenal grows and matures.

I can definitely understand the SK people's growing frustration. How much can they take without finally snapping? I cant imagine what the US would do if our mainland was attacked. Again, I am very shocked/impressed with SK's restraint.

North Korea accuses South of using civilians as shields

North Korea's state news agency said in a statement that the South should be held responsible because "it took such inhuman action as creating 'a human shield' by deploying civilians around artillery positions."

The North said the South "is now working hard to dramatize 'civilian casualties' as part of its propaganda campaign, creating the impression that the defenseless civilians were exposed to 'indiscriminate shelling' all of a sudden from the" North.

Link

Originally posted by jonny2410

North Korea accuses South of using civilians as shields

North Korea's state news agency said in a statement that the South should be held responsible because "it took such inhuman action as creating 'a human shield' by deploying civilians around artillery positions."

Link

Deployed civilians? Wouldn't the civilians have chosen to build and live there? Isn't it more realistic that the South put artillery there due to location and other logistics. It sounds like someone is pointing fingers, and trying to justify their inhumane actions. If the North wanted to destroy strictly military structure, wouldn't they have taken more specific measure. They attacked either way, so why not use strategic attacks as opposed to blind shelling. They make it sounds like the South opened fire from weapon systems hid within hospitals and schools.

Originally posted by jonny2410
The thing that bugs me is the report that Vitchilo first found about the NK ex-pats being re-called from Russia. Some 20,000 or so of them...

I mean, these workers bring money straight into the coffers of North Korea so to cease all work and bring them back, where food is already scarce, seems to be a pretty big event.

It signals to me that either this time war is a very big possibility, or more likely, that North Korea is not in control of events this time and is being cautious.

If North Korea, that is Pyongyang, are not in control of events, in which we are talking about some sort of collapse or destabilisation or split in the regime, then the Chinese-North Korea border is the one to watch.


In 2008, China reportedly massed troops on the Chinese-North Korean border in anticipation of a refugee crisis, not long after, reports emerged that 'The Dear Leader' was ill, and other rumours stated (that still resurface as late as this week) that he was dead.

I think China was responding to those reports, fearing a destabilisation period after 'The Dear Leader's death.

Another sign to look out for if North Korea's ruling elite is shaky would be conflicting statements from the KCNA, Voice of Korea and other North Korean media outlets, as a sign that not everyone in Pyongyang is singing from the same hymn sheet, so to speak.

Lastly, if China has assets within Pyongyang that can influence events to China's liking in the event of something happening that is not to China's liking, look out for re-shuffles in the Pyongyang ruling elite, a tell-tale sign that individuals that China has found could be of concern and potentially destabilising have fallen out of favour.

If we look at this rambling statement reported by Reuters as having been released by the KCNA:

Troubled waters as North Korea remembers a bridge

From the Link:

Troubled waters as North Korea remembers a bridge

27 Nov 2010 10:32:18 GMT
Source: Reuters
SEOUL, Nov 27 (Reuters) - Reclusive North Korea, furious at U.S.-South Korea military manoeuvres due to start on Sunday, took time out on Saturday to remember a name given to a bridge.

The usually bellicose KCNA news agency recalled that founder of Stalinist North Korea Kim Il-sung named a bridge in 1960.

"Going round a newly built bridge over the River Taedong (in 1960), he said the river water meandering Chongnyu Cliff had long been called 'okryu' (gem) as it was as clear as gem, and suggested naming the bridge Okryu Bridge," KCNA said.

"He then autographed the name of the bridge for its tablet. Mirim, Chungsong and Rungna bridges built in the 1970s and 1980s over the River Taedong were all named by him."

Also, when visiting a silk mill, "he saw silk cloth embroidered with azaleas and maple leaves and named it after Yaksan, a scenic spot in the locality".

It was not immediately clear what prompted KCNA, regularly vilifying the South and the United States for war mongering, to break the news on the bridge.

(Reporting by Nick Macfie)

.....we will see that this KCNA statement really does not make a lost of sense, when usually the KCNA makes clear statements. Why release a rather rambling statement about a bridge built in the 60's and allegedly named by Kim il-Sung? Why release that anecdote, and now, at this time of tensions when the eyes of the world are watching?

The conspiratorial part of me suggests this could be code intended for a recepient, or recepients who would have access to the statement. It puts me much in mind of the nonsensical phrases and poems carried by the BBC radio on the eve of D-Day such as "Jacques has a long moustache" which gave notice to the French Resistance that the allied invasion of France was imminent and to carry out operations assigned to them such as sabotage.

North Korea is said to have many, many agents in South Korea. The conspiratorial part of me suggests this message from the KCNA, at this time of tensions may have been a message to sleeper agents at these times of tensions, to mobilise, and prepare for operations (sabotage, intelligence gathering) in the event of war breaking out.

I think shortwave listeners should tune into Voice of Korea tonight, and see if they repeat the same sort of strange folksy statements.

I also think that numbers stations should be listened out for, and strange noises and sounds picked up off the frequencies.

Originally posted by jonny2410

North Korea accuses South of using civilians as shields

North Korea's state news agency said in a statement that the South should be held responsible because "it took such inhuman action as creating 'a human shield' by deploying civilians around artillery positions."

The North said the South "is now working hard to dramatize 'civilian casualties' as part of its propaganda campaign, creating the impression that the defenseless civilians were exposed to 'indiscriminate shelling' all of a sudden from the" North.

Link

From that i can gather the US/SK drills will take place 50miles (80km) from North Korea. This 'experts' say is just enough distance to render North Korea ASM (anti sea missiles) useless. Whether they actually stay this far away remains to be seen.

45% South Koreans support ‘strong response’ against NK

Over 40 percent of South Koreans want their government to show a ‘strong response’ against North Korea, in the aftermath of an artillery clash with the North earlier this week that resulted in four fatal South Korean casualties.

Among the 700 people who participated in the survey, 16 percent of them supported the view that “South Korea should refrain from a military response and instead deal with the matter diplomatically and economically.”

reply to post by Regensturm

North Korea is said to have many, many agents in South Korea. The conspiratorial part of me suggests this message from the KCNA, at this time of tensions may have been a message to sleeper agents at these times of tensions, to mobilise, and prepare for operations (sabotage, intelligence gathering) in the event of war breaking out.

Very interesting... and you might be right...

More news...

Chinese news agency Xinhua says China foreign minister called his Japan, Russia counterparts today about North Korea

NORTH Korea's state media warned on Saturday that 'no-one can predict the ensuing consequences' if a US carrier group goes ahead with a planned drill with South Korea in the Yellow Sea.

Yonhap quoting "informed (#ROK ) gov't source saying #DPRK 8th naval squadron increasing activity, keeping coastal artillery in firing mode.

Increasing North Korea military activity is not good.... at all.

Yang has angered S. Koreans by abruptly canceling scheduled visit to Seoul. He was supposed to be here Friday & today. about 1 hour ago via TweetDeck

The Chinese foreign minister.... not good... relations between South Korea and China going down...

[quote­]But #China foreign min. Yang still pushing for resumption of 6-party talks.
Is he for real?

Just in case there was any doubt, the new SK defence minister clearly seems to be tougher...

The newly named defence minister, Kim Kwan-Jin, earlier pledged a tougher response in case of another North Korean attack, vowing that "we need to hit back multiple times as hard", a news report said.

Link

P.S - Maybe this thread should be renamed, if it can be, to some sort of North Korea main thread.

Originally posted by jonny2410
Just in case there was any doubt, the new SK defence minister clearly seems to be tougher...

The newly named defence minister, Kim Kwan-Jin, earlier pledged a tougher response in case of another North Korean attack, vowing that "we need to hit back multiple times as hard", a news report said.

Link

P.S - Maybe this thread should be renamed, if it can be, to some sort of North Korea main thread.

In my opinion... GOOD! It is about time. If I was constantly pushed over the years, I imagine I'd be ready to handle the problem too!

and i would agree about the thread title, except that I believe we have had numerous "official NK" threads over the years! Much like all the 'official' Iran, Israel, etc threads!

It appears NK is now blaming the US for it's actions, not just SK:

SEOUL, Nov. 27 (Yonhap) -- North Korea on Saturday blamed the United States for its artillery attack on a South Korean island this week...

Source