Death Panels Proven, Who lives and who dies in effect

You got it right...this is a fact..people are now on the chopping block

PHOENIX -- A Valley man was in the surgery room, prepped and ready for his life-saving liver transplant when doctors told him the state's Medicaid plan wouldn't cover the procedure.

Francisco Felix, who has Hepatitis C, has been on the waiting list for a new liver since April, his wife said. A liver became available and Felix was ready for surgery at Banner Good Samaritan Hospital.

Arizona's medicaid agency, AHCCCS, which has recently cut funding for some services, refused to pay for Felix's surgery.

AHCCCS no longer cover liver transplants but not for patients with Hepatitis C, according to Jennifer Carusett, a spokeswoman for AHCCCS.

Damn...thats harsh. One thing it doesn't say is that the liver in question was actually his relative...man, thats cold...cant pay? get out of the chair.

I know...Obamacare is going to kill us all...
but wait...this -isn't- Obamacare...actually, this is the alternative by the chosen people, the republicans.

The cuts were part of the Republican-lead legislature's plan to balance the budget, which Gov. Jan Brewer signed. The policy change took effect Oct. 1.

"I don't understand how she (Brewer) has the heart ... how this one person can make such a difference to all of us," said Sandra Felix, Francisco Felix's neice.

Democratic lawmakers are demanding a special session to discuss reinstating the transplant funds.

Leah Landrum Taylor, a Democrat who represents District 16 in Phoenix said she was horrified by what happened Tuesday.

Hmm...so the republicans are saving our health care by snipping away at life saving procedures...interesting...

Sarah Palin should hear about this absolutely real death panel instituted in Az. I am sure she will be all over it decrying the evil aspects...also, moose will fly.

ok folks...discuss...republicans..quick...decide why death panels are great.

Source

reply to post by SaturnFX

Felix was ready for surgery at Banner Good Samaritan Hospital.

Gee the name of that hospital is contradictory. I don't see too much good samaritan in them!

Sounds to me like moral judgement coming in to decide who lives and who dies - maybe that's the objective of "death panels"?

99% of the time, Hepititus 'C' is contracted by addicts who share needles. It can also be sexually transmitted or transferred via blood transfusion. Much like the HIV virus, it can only be contracted by bodily fluids.

If legislators are now going to deny life-saving health treatments based on the if-you-did-something-stupid-we're-not paying-for-it basis, then where do they draw the line? Do we deny cardiac bypass for someone who ate too much pizza? Do we deny cancer treatment to someone who smoked for 10 years? How about denying trauma care to someone that caused an auto accident?

This is a very slippery slope we're on. God help us!

Originally posted by Rockerchic4God
Sounds to me like moral judgement coming in to decide who lives and who dies - maybe that's the objective of "death panels"?

99% of the time, Hepititus 'C' is contracted by addicts who share needles. It can also be sexually transmitted or transferred via blood transfusion. Much like the HIV virus, it can only be contracted by bodily fluids.

If legislators are now going to deny life-saving health treatments based on the if-you-did-something-stupid-we're-not paying-for-it basis, then where do they draw the line? Do we deny cardiac bypass for someone who ate too much pizza? Do we deny cancer treatment to someone who smoked for 10 years? How about denying trauma care to someone that caused an auto accident?

This is a very slippery slope we're on. God help us!

No
This is actually not the only person.

Randy Shepherd is 36 and 6-foot-3, but he has to toss baseballs to his 3-year-old son, Nathan, while sitting in a lawn chair. Shepherd has cardiomyopathy; his heart muscle is deteriorating. The condition is the result of rheumatic fever he had as a child. As a teenager, he had his heart valves replaced, but that was 20 years ago.

"The muscle's gotten tired and distended," Shepherd says. "It's just worn out."

You can hear the weakness in his voice, even though doctors implanted a pacemaker in 2008. They've told Shepherd that he needs a heart transplant to survive.

AHCCCS (pronounced like "access") was the only health insurance Shepherd could get because he had a pre-existing condition and, since he was forced to stop working in his plumbing business, little money. The agency authorized his transplant more than a year ago.

"The nurse who's the transplant coordinator did tell me about two months ago that I'm the next one of my body size and blood type, so the next [heart] that's available is mine," Shepherd says.

A Question Of Ethics

But as of Oct. 1, AHCCCS said it is unable to pay for Shepherd's transplant. In fact, facing a $1.5 billion budget deficit, Arizona has cut out all state-funded lung transplants, some bone-marrow transplants and some heart transplants — including transplants for the condition Shepherd has.
-snip-

Both are family men..one is a mexican, one is a average white guy..neither of them are disco going gay drug addicts. one needs a liver, one needs a heart. this is not a moral decision...this is cutting away dead weight in favor of people with more money.

Its amazing...tons of wasteful money being shoved everywhere and they gotta cut off a program that actually saves lives..literally.
Lets hope the heart guy can come up with 1.5m$...because his state said nope.

(incidently...happy note...both are now saved...not from the state...but from Keith Olberman and the audience contributing to save them.)

Both are family men..one is a mexican, one is a average white guy..neither of them are disco going gay drug addicts. one needs a liver, one needs a heart. this is not a moral decision...this is cutting away dead weight in favor of people with more money.

I don't know which is worse Humans are apparently not worth saving, but GOD FORBID a big bank or Wall St. fat-cat should go down. Trillions created by the gov't to save them, but then cry empty pockets and "oh we're sorry we can't afford to save your life" to sick people.

Absolutely shameful!!!

Originally posted by Rockerchic4God

Both are family men..one is a mexican, one is a average white guy..neither of them are disco going gay drug addicts. one needs a liver, one needs a heart. this is not a moral decision...this is cutting away dead weight in favor of people with more money.

I don't know which is worse

Humans are apparently not worth saving, but GOD FORBID a big bank or Wall St. fat-cat should go down. Trillions created by the gov't to save them, but then cry empty pockets and "oh we're sorry we can't afford to save your life" to sick people.

Absolutely shameful!!!

Or in this specific case, they want to spend ungodly sums of money building an ineffective fence, but cant even consider saving lives of their citizens.

the amusing bit...the federal government reimburses the state for this program they cut...so they actually haven't saved a single dime...the only thing they accomplished was putting people on the death list for right wing political gain of seeming to be concerned about the budget (without actually cutting the budget).

Image over substance...just don't worry about those people dying in the corner over there...to make a cool image, people have to die.
Go Arizona...good decision you lot made

Ah, the glory of death panels!

Fountains of fastidiously fabricated fear have saved humanity from the sub humane liberalized, agenda
of liberalism. This is the price we pay for our plural range of freedom! Money tis the master of life and we have assured that profit shall be protected above all else, but only because money is the very basis of freedom. Question this and pivot, hide the fact that you would not care one shred because the consequence is not in your line of sight. You are covered and a victim is impossible without an assailant. FREEDOM Remains!

A.K.A Status Quo Has Been Upheld

I know that having the words "organ donor" on your license translates perfectly into "Worth more dead than alive" in hospital speak, and this has been happening for years.

Hospitals and governments alike have always played God & Investment Banker when it comes to people's lives.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Medicare and Medicaid chosen by the republicans? How is that?

Because from what I can tell you, conservatives and 70 percent of the PEOPLE didnt want Obamacare, im sure many of them were liberals and democrats......

They didnt want the system because the system we HAVE is going broke, thats why this man didnt receive his transplant........

And your telling me in a system where MORE people will be taking from the depleting "money vault" that is Obamacare, that this wont happen MORE OFTEN? Hogwash.......

The people are in favor of health care reform, but we arent in favor of taking an engine out of one vehicle thats already disfunctional and putting it into a bigger vehicle...it will just make it worse

Well, many of us knew this was coming but we were called crazy, many of us know that they are trying to take away our vitamins and other natural supplements but people ignore it until it is too late. Here is your free Obamacare. I would like to see comments from those that so feverishly wanted this to happen and ridiculed those of us who were telling you what was to come and what will come after.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Keep demanding the rich get tax cuts...that should reform the system well

again, this isn't obamacare...try..really try hard to get that defective skipping record off of your brain for just a few seconds and read the article..the articles...the source, etc.

This is a state thing, this is a state program, the citizens pay into it, and they are cutting the program, yet will gladly talk about losing all kinds of money funding the elites and doing ineffective immigration reform.

nevermind...don't bother...country first...screw the people within though.

Originally posted by Elieser
Well, many of us knew this was coming but we were called crazy, many of us know that they are trying to take away our vitamins and other natural supplements but people ignore it until it is too late. Here is your free Obamacare. I would like to see comments from those that so feverishly wanted this to happen and ridiculed those of us who were telling you what was to come and what will come after.

lol...this is actually the alternative to obamacare...this is republicare...aka, die quietly and go away

enjoy your hypocracy

Originally posted by Elieser
Well, many of us knew this was coming but we were called crazy, many of us know that they are trying to take away our vitamins and other natural supplements but people ignore it until it is too late. Here is your free Obamacare. I would like to see comments from those that so feverishly wanted this to happen and ridiculed those of us who were telling you what was to come and what will come after.

Did you bother to actually read the article before spouting off your FOX news bullcrap? If you did, you would realize this IS NOT obamacare, this is the solution that THE REPUBLICANS came up with.

Yes we know, the irony is thick. Yes, we also know that you cant comprehend it.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Keep demanding the rich get tax cuts...that should reform the system well

again, this isn't obamacare...try..really try hard to get that defective skipping record off of your brain for just a few seconds and read the article..the articles...the source, etc.

This is a state thing, this is a state program, the citizens pay into it, and they are cutting the program, yet will gladly talk about losing all kinds of money funding the elites and doing ineffective immigration reform.

nevermind...don't bother...country first...screw the people within though.

Welp,even Quaaludes and PBRs are filtered out of the system eventually.

I think you are saying that these people who cried about letting the state decide about life and death situations
are now making life and death decisions contrary to their incessant bitching about such a circumstance being created by liberalism.

If this is not rich enough they are upping the hypocrisy by choosing death; ultimately fulfilling a self filling prophecy of their own creation.

reply to post by SaturnFX


You want to tell me where in my post i said that this WAS Obamacare? I think i explained it pretty straight forward.....

and since i use to work with medicaid and medicare, i might actually have some insight as to what im talking about......considering that they ARE goign broke, and the fact that this man coudlnt get his transplant because THE FUNDS WERENT THERE, so they have to regulate what happens.........WE KNOW THIS HAPPENS thats why we DIDNT WANT OBAMACARE......it will be worse.........

Is that clear enough? If it happens on a small scale, it will happen on the massive scale that Obama has planned, but you are right about one thing, this proves that the death panels will indeed be in effect, even more so......

p.s. insulting me just makes your point less valid my friend......try again

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You want to tell me where in my post i said that this WAS Obamacare? I think i explained it pretty straight forward.....

and since i use to work with medicaid and medicare, i might actually have some insight as to what im talking about......considering that they ARE goign broke, and the fact that this man coudlnt get his transplant because THE FUNDS WERENT THERE, so they have to regulate what happens.........WE KNOW THIS HAPPENS thats why we DIDNT WANT OBAMACARE......it will be worse.........

Is that clear enough? If it happens on a small scale, it will happen on the massive scale that Obama has planned, but you are right about one thing, this proves that the death panels will indeed be in effect, even more so......

p.s. insulting me just makes your point less valid my friend......try again

edit on 22-11-2010 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

1) the funds were there...she removed it based strictly on a uneducated whim that somehow nobody used this anyhow...she was incorrect, the money is a pittance compared to the wasteful spending the state does on a quarterly basis.

2) Obamacare simply disallows insurance companies to soak customers by charging 400% increases on the cost of a surgery for profit to the insurance company...which in turn will make surgerys cheaper and this 1.5m$ heart transplant come down significantly...yet the whole aspect of this has been twisted by the insurance company puppets that you got the average joe totally confused about it...thats really the end all, be all meat of obamacare...stop soaking the people, be more inclusive...ya...vote against that.

3) I insult ideas and twisted logic that deserve to be twisted...I dont you personally..but I know the twisted lies pretending to be truth you are pushing forward...it has dominated the propaganda for ages and with no mystery of the source.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You want to tell me where in my post i said that this WAS Obamacare? I think i explained it pretty straight forward.....

and since i use to work with medicaid and medicare, i might actually have some insight as to what im talking about......considering that they ARE goign broke, and the fact that this man coudlnt get his transplant because THE FUNDS WERENT THERE, so they have to regulate what happens.........WE KNOW THIS HAPPENS thats why we DIDNT WANT OBAMACARE......it will be worse.........

Is that clear enough? If it happens on a small scale, it will happen on the massive scale that Obama has planned, but you are right about one thing, this proves that the death panels will indeed be in effect, even more so......

p.s. insulting me just makes your point less valid my friend......try again

edit on 22-11-2010 by ManBehindTheMask because: (no reason given)

1) the funds were there...she removed it based strictly on a uneducated whim that somehow nobody used this anyhow...she was incorrect, the money is a pittance compared to the wasteful spending the state does on a quarterly basis.

2) Obamacare simply disallows insurance companies to soak customers by charging 400% increases on the cost of a surgery for profit to the insurance company...which in turn will make surgerys cheaper and this 1.5m$ heart transplant come down significantly...yet the whole aspect of this has been twisted by the insurance company puppets that you got the average joe totally confused about it...thats really the end all, be all meat of obamacare...stop soaking the people, be more inclusive...ya...vote against that.

3) I insult ideas and twisted logic that deserve to be twisted...I dont you personally..but I know the twisted lies pretending to be truth you are pushing forward...it has dominated the propaganda for ages and with no mystery of the source.

Ill start with your last assumption first since its the easiest......

3. Its not twisted logic, its common sense......common sense says that if a system is already failing, you dont build a bigger system based on the same methodology only with BIGGER spending and MORE people on it, as a solution.........THAT is twisted logic.

2.People who actually READ the bill know what as in store and how this was going to operate, you very apparently get all of your information from talking heads, and talking points. Since I on the other hand, had a stake in this whole thing because it was going to effect my business, that was funded BY medicaid and medicare, I read the bill, I know what was in it and I know what was proposed.......so you can sit there and talk all the gibberish and talking points you want, I know how it is to operate. Your distortions of how this thing is to function are sorely misunderstood or deliberately ignored in favor of towing your political , liberal agenda.......

1. The money WASNT there because they were cutting certain funding because they are going BROKE, what part of that dont you understand? Its pretty blatant in your own source thread......

These agencies are losing their money.......I owned 3 agencies that provided care under medicaid AND medicare and oversaw 8 others in 5 states, 3 of those states we saw NO reimbursement for 8 MONTHS because medicaid was going broke, then they tried to even scam getting out of it, the system is broke.......needless to say we had to shut down a few of the companies who could not survive.

Dont tell me I dont know what im talking about

You sir speculate and and use your talking points all you want, keep towing that line to bash conservatives all you want, you have no idea what youre talking about

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I work with mentally ill Medicaid (Medi-CAL) patients. Have you noticed lately that more and more medications are being added to the list that M/C won't pay for? They are also now starting to ration the number of PRN (as needed med orders). While people think Obamacare or any other state indigent health system for that matter is scary, rationed, soylent green material and something new, then you better take a second look at Medicaid/Medi-CAL - BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY in the form of MANAGED CARE!!! Heck, our small little rural county health agency must hire scads of middle-management people to keep track of the endless array of regulations, stacks and stacks of paper work, constant audits, etc. We even have one full-time person who does nothing but make sure we are in compliance with crossing every 'T' and dotting every 'I' lest the state control freaks come in and find disallowances - and even one tiny thing out of order in a chart or approval process or services can set off a chain reaction of more disallowances. Who gets hurt? The clients - who have done nothing
wrong to deserve having thier meds and clincial case services CUT. I consider myself a Libertarian, but the cold hard fact is that in every society since humans were put on this earth there's always some people who just aren't able to care for themselves. Many scizophrenics, schizoaffectives, and major dressive and anxiety disorders reneter many people unemployable.

Originally posted by Rockerchic4God
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Who gets hurt? The clients - who have done nothing
wrong to deserve having thier meds and clincial case services CUT. I consider myself a Libertarian, but the cold hard fact is that in every society since humans were put on this earth there's always some people who just aren't able to care for themselves. Many scizophrenics, schizoaffectives, and major dressive and anxiety disorders reneter many people unemployable.

Why are you trying to make sense to these people, cant you see that they want to be partisan, with no compassion, and could care less about anyone else but their own sorry selves?

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
I owned 3 agencies that provided care under medicaid AND medicare and oversaw 8 others in 5 states

Thanks for posting this, now I know where you come from. I was right all along.....it always comes down to greed and money.