So the UK Government can find £7bn to help bail out Ireland

Originally posted by detachedindividual

And, as I understand it, we are doing so because Ireland is our fifth biggest trade partner (I think). If Ireland falls, we will loose a lot more than 7bn. Our financial ties are highly complex, but we have to have their bonds stable to make our money back.
his 7bn serves to reassure the wider world that Ireland is safe for investment, thereby getting our money back in the future.

According to the link in my post, the balance of payments in 2009 was £3bn in our favour.

But, it's also because we cannot afford to have millions of immigrants coming into England from Ireland.
Neither can we allow a violent faction of the previous IRA/RIRA (or any one of a number of radical Irish groups) to destabilize the country.

If we proper and real border control and checked everyone in and out of the country, we could stop this from happening. And if we let the UK military and special forces off the lead, we could stop the IRA/RIRA.

Look at what happened in other nations, and without a bankruptcy. Governments have fallen. Rioting in the streets. Massive security problems.
If Ireland indeed became bankrupt, can you imagine the opportunities which would arise for radical groups?

But why should this be the UK's problem? Secure our borders and let Ireland sink or swin.

reply to post by justwokeup


it seems to me the house of cards are corrupted anyway, we should just let them fall and hold those responsible for all the mess to account. if 7 billion is just thought of as peanuts in the grand scheme of things then it shows just how big that mountain must be. so we are just putting off the obvious for now and empty peoples pockets more in the process to keep up the cards that caused the mess.

i say lets get a new deck and shuffle well let the old deck fall where it will and rebuild the house of cards. you would think with so many countries in debt, that there would actually be a super rich country somewhere counting all the pennies and rubbing its hands together with all the worlds wealth. there is only one thing that got us into this mess and needs to change, banks. they have almost bankrupted the world.

A default, withdrawal from the euro, and a devaluation of their currency with low taxation is probably the best solution for the Irish people. But thats not going to be allowed to occur.

Watch what happens over the next few years when they are crushed into a deep deep depression by weight of the extra bailout loans they have just been saddled with to keep the euro boat floating.

Theres no altruism involved here. The irish have to suffer a deep depression to keep the bond market stable. Sorry ireland, take one for the team....

reply to post by Freedom ERP

The problem here is not just about exportation and importation, is the link between banks (belong to same holdings), is as you said 3 millon difference, but a year, every year 3 more billions profit for the UK, is the massive coming of people from Ireland to the UK looking for a life, is also not helping one of the few countries that still supports british policies in the EU, is helping the european closest economy in Europe geographically.
In the other hand, you will see your goverment reaction when Portugal asks for more money, or if Greece asks for a bit more, if the britsh goverment helps them, then I will agree with you and point the finger to them just like you are now until then I believe is a very good business decision.

reply to post by lifeform11


"it seems to me the house of cards are corrupted anyway, we should just let them fall and hold those responsible for all the mess to account"

In theory maybe. But practically nobody has any real idea how to rearrange the cards without massive upheaval and societal collapse. Starvation and hypothermia doesn't appeal to me. So they try harder and harder to keep the plates spinning.

But what do I know? if I knew what was going to happen i'd be George Soros :-)

reply to post by justwokeup


i understand what your saying and i understand why they are trying to do it.

but i do not see the point anymore, the plates are wobbling and the person spinning the plates has no arms.

they are just frantically running between plates blowing on them with their mouth.

Originally posted by Freedom ERP

But why should this be the UK's problem? Secure our borders and let Ireland sink or swin.

It will all be the UK's problem because they are our direct neighbor. Would you really like to see a rogue state right next to the UK?

Remember, previously the IRA were backed by other groups too, supplying them with arms.

What you're suggesting will not save us anything, because in the long run we will be forced to spend billions more on national security to protect our shores, increase military presence across the western shoreline, patrol the seas to prevent outside influence of dissidents...
And, of course, we'd certainly loose our trading partner.

So not only would we loose the income from our trading partner, but the UK would be far less secure, and we'd have to spend billions a year on increased defense. We'd have a resurgence of terrorism across the UK, something our government assures us Irish dissidents have in their sights already.

Personally, I would rather see a stable Ireland. I don't want to see us return to the violence of previous years

Originally posted by detachedindividual
It will all be the UK's problem because they are our direct neighbor. Would you really like to see a rogue state right next to the UK?

Did not see the english help ireland when ireland had the famine, they had the attitude of letting them die.

The english are still targeting plenty of irish peopel, and then handing them money, makes me sick. You know the english do not have irelands interests at heart period.

reply to post by Freedom ERP


It's to stop British banks going bankrupt if Ireland defaults, got nowt to do with Europe, the city of London is capitalism the buck stops here.

You're all missing the point.

The £7/10bn is a back door bail out for RBS (Ulster Bank).

Quite simply the Ulster Bank arm of RBS has the potential to bring RBS down which is a risk this government cannot take (dire consequences for the UK).

As I said in another thread:

"Most of the EU money will go to support the French and German banks that are heavily tied up in Irish property.

Our £10bn or whatever is to support RBS.

Ireland should just default, make the banks, property 'investors' and financial spivs take a haircut or go under. Then rebuild from sq1, start again with a new system because the current one clearly doesn't work IMPO.

Portugal, Spain, Italy and (heaven forbid) us are all next trying to solve the debt problem with more debt.....

Sooner or later the piper must be paid.....

I wonder how long it will take the UK populace to realise that all this 'wealth' in this country was just an illusion. Our government really has no money, neither do we, we can't keep borrowing from the future....."


MR

The most important and glaring feature of these bailouts is that they are NOT bailing out the people, they are bailing out, or often just covering the expected losses, of hugely rich bankers and private individuals.

The link below has some very good info about this lates robbery in Ireland.

dailybail.com...

Anglo-Irish Bank did not represent a systemic risk to the Irish economy, it wasn’t a high street bank like AIB or the Bank of Ireland. If it had been allowed to go the way of Lehmans the only losers would have been shareholders and bondholders. The Irish state stepped in and nationalised a bank that was basically run by crooks lending to property speculators.

Every child in Ireland is being bequeathed a huge debt at birth to protect the interests of foreign, mainly German, bondholders – why? Guido was once a bond trader, it was always understood that sometimes the bond issuer defaults.

* That is the risk investors take.

So why is Dublin’s political establishment so keen to protect foreign investors at the expense of future generations? Guido has obtained the list of foreign Anglo-Irish bondholders as at the close of business tonight. These are the people whom Dublin’s politicians really seem to care about:

See link for list of bondholders and the assets they manage, and it becomes clear they are not going to fail themselves, but will get their investments back. In other words, they gambled, lost, but will not lose any money thanks to the current corrupt system. If only we could do the same.... without being thrown in prison for fraud!

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
Yet another Euro country is requiring a huge bailout, and this time, the UK Government is planning to aid Ireland with up to £7bn.

How strange that our government is cutting millions from support of its own people but is quite happy to spend money bailing out other countries who's leaders have managed their economy so badly.

Dare I mention NWO in all of this?

I dont think you have a grasp of the situation. If the money was not lent. It would force Irish banks to close. This would affect Irelands ability to borrow money which is in turn used to but British goods..
So if they dont get the money, jobs and money will be lost in the uk.
This is a global village we now live in. We are rely on each other and what in gods name has this got to do with the NWO.

reply to post by purplemer


Perhaps, as I indicated in my post above, that is not the case?
I think we need to take a look at the banks that are being bailed out. If, as the article I linked to, it's investment banks, then their failing will not affect the overall economy, just the bond / shareholders, who are all big institutions of mega-rich individuals.

Of course, they'll threaten doom and gloom if we don't bail them out but I think we are all being lied to on a massive scale as to what is really going on here.

reply to post by Britguy


I agree, I think the it's high time to let the whole system collapse.

Will be utter chaos for a while on and EU and probably global scale but how much longer and how many more generations should be slaves to this system....?

reply to post by purplemer


So you start you post by insulting me. Look at the facts. The balance of payments with Ireland is only £3bn in our favour, so we are spending £7bn to protect a net return to the UK of £3bn. Where is the return on our investment? I would rather this Government said no to Ireland and spent this money on the British people rather than the Irish people.

As other posters as written in this thread, it is time to stop bailing out poorly managed countries and let one or more of them fail.

And just how would jobs be lost in the UK? If you are going to make statements, back them up.

reply to post by detachedindividual


We lose a £3bn net trading partner, nothing more and we need to protect our borders more anyway, so spend the £7bn in the UK on protection of our borders. This will help British business.

And let the Euro countries bail Ireland. One of the major factors in Ireland's need for a bail out is they have lost real control of their economy as they were bullied into the Euro, and have to accept the interest rate for the whole of Europe rather than one that would have suited the economic climate in Ireland.

If we let Ireland default on its financial commitments, I do not see the country going rogue. Do you think that Ireland would decend in lawlessness? Just why would Irish republicanism rise again?

There's nothing dodgy going on here. David Cameron will have spoken to George Osbourne and he will have got straight on the phone to a representitive of the Rothschilds. Then they will have found the time to tap in a seven and nine noughts on a computer.

The trouble is some people think that everythings a conspiracy.

More important than the practical economic reasons for the bailout mentioned here, Ireland and the Irish are our friends and neighbours and it would be unthinkable for us to just leave them to it. They are after all the only country who gives us points in the Eurovision Song Contest!

There are always going to be a few fringe extremists talking about IRA and The Potato Famine, etc, but the majority of both Brits and Irish should and will be there for each other.

And to the poster who said that the economy has a life of it's own, I've been thinking that for years. The system is ridiculous, and if we had any real leadership someone would be guiding us into a system that works for our benefit, not the other way around.

Instead we sit here waiting for chaos so we can keep our fingers crossed for something better at the end of it. History has shown, however, that at the end of chaotic periods of history ruthless psychopaths take advantage and seize power with bogus ideologies.

Someone somewhere is lurking in the shadows waiting for their time, and our best defence will be in the sentiments I expressed in my first paragarph.