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God wants you to ignore his wishes.

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posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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intro:
There is a video game out, Fallout New Vegas. Now...they have a small sidequest that is brilliant in demonstrating a point about something significant. (fallout new vegas is 200 years after a nuclear war...post apocolyptic setting, lots of empty vaults where people lived through the blast.)

A vault you may stumble across has a story of how, for some reason, the programming required the vault dwellers to sacrifice a single person every year. Failure to sacrifice a person would immediately shut down the life support and electricity for the entire vault..killing everyone inside. So, the vault dwellers would vote in a person every year to be their sacrifice.

After many many years, their numbers came to be only 5 left. The last 5 simply refused to sacrifice...figured they were all dead anyhow and things were miserable...they didn't understand why the programming was like this, but ultimately they didn't like the people they became because of the absurdity. Expecting the worst, they sent the message for f-off, no more sacrifice..kill us, we dont care.

The vault then opened up, lots of good things. The true programming was not to kill them, but to reward them when they got past the programming and stood up for common sense in the face of insane rules. the vault dwellers were in a test...not to see how carefully they followed the rules (that was the test), but to see when they were ready to grow up and get out...if you know something is crazy, yet follow it...your still a child and require a sort of crazy father figure until you stand up..when that happens, your prepared to walk amongst other adults.


Perhaps all these religions..these insane rules and obvious logical fallacy ridden fantasies that run society is a actual divine test..not to see how close we can follow the insanity, but a gauge to see when we as a society and world finally stand up and say no...we no longer wish to be ruled by these rules, but rather our own common sense.

Why do we keep sacrificing someone once a year to appease the program..it makes no sense..but it does make sense that this is a trial to see how long we can see it for what it is...a test to see when we are no longer insane.

Perhaps a true God would want you to finally collectively ignore his wishes and nonsense...tear down the churches, mosques, and temples and use that material for bettering humanity.

Thoughts?




posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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Very good Idea for a thread Saturn
my compliments on getting so close to the heart of the matter
( also of course, compliments to the creators of the plot in the game)

"those that don't learn to live together, are going to die together"
edit on 22-11-2010 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:30 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


Right...just the sheer number of religions in the world is a hint.

if I was a deity, I would look at this mess and make, in no uncertain terms, a display for everyone to know exactly which religion was right if I cared for that...so, the point simply cannot be following a single structured religion to the T is the name of the game...but rather, a much more clever game.

good followup post.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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edit on 22-11-2010 by Beyond Creation because: DP



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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God speaks to each of us in its unique way. It's easy to understand that life is a learning process.

Yes you must stand up for what you feel is justified and for your and other's freedom.

The battle may be a little tougher than in the game though, but similar to the game, you may have to make sacrifices.


Peace
edit on 22-11-2010 by Beyond Creation because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:35 AM
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Although, normally as I have encountered you in other threads, we are two opposite sides of the pole, I think i may be o with you here. I don't have Fallout new vegas (I was hoping to get it in December) but I understand that Game developers are more open to Conspiracy ideas than the news itself. It is an interesting concept you put forward, and many people might just play the game and get it over with. S&F for you!
This is a great find, and , whaddyaknow? It might be right



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by mr10k
 


the game itself is not set around this plot.l..this is simply a tiny sidequest you probably won't even notice or do unless you get really bored and wander around and try to complete everything.

opposite poles? meh...not on everything. Hell, some of my biggest political nemesis's on here are near allies in different areas of the board. Never take a person's viewpoint on a single subject as a yes or no on having anything in common with him/her. Rule one of intelligent debate...realize the person your debating is more complex than any one subject.

I suspect a elegant universe with deities would favor the trials to adulthood approach verses the weird rules for random reasons theory we use now.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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I hear that fallout New Vegas is a pretty crazy game, all those sacrifices, some may say that it was a waiste of valuable human life, but when you think about it, look at how many people it took to kill, before they realized that killing was not the way? Did they really get it? All The Gamers get it, but what about The Characters? Do they still end up having to kill people outside of the vault? I haven't played this game yet, don't know if I want to really, not a big fan of nuclear fallout type cenarios. Have you seen cover for the game? Pretty kule pics on there if you ask me.

I agree with the OP though. There's got to be some point where people stand up and say "enough". It really interests me that the people who came up with this game created a scenario that tested the confined humans in such a way, almost like testing their intelligence, or value of human life. It's crazy, because the whole entire time, the doors were unlocked, but they chose to kill themselves over protocols and rules, essentially devaluing their own wellbeing, for The Program of the computer God.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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All religions have some truths. No one religion has all the answers, and all these came at different times in human existence.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I think, and have written this before, that God gaves us life and is not paying too much attention to what we are doing now. Most current religions were created by men seeking positions of power. Not enlightened. I'm always surprised to hear "messengers of God", I ask why they were chosen over others? Or better yet why would a All Powerful being just not deliver the message themself? I never get a good answer on either of those questions.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 12:08 PM
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Interesting thread, and idea.

I am intrigued by this line of thinking. How common sense and civility should overcome arbitrary rules and decrees, if you ask me it sounds like a pretty good test.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 12:14 PM
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If you actually read the what Jesus did, he was very confrontational with the "law keepers" of his time. They were people who felt they could please God by following the law to the letter. But in doing this, they were actually cruel.

Jesus healed on the Sabbath, a time "the law" said not to do any work. But what is better? To heal someone or to ignore them until "the law" says you can help them?

The people of that time were following "the law" but they did not help the poor, the orphans, widows, and people that needed help. When Jesus pointed this out, he said that there would be prostitutes and thieves that would get into heaven before the law keepers. When they heard what they had to do to be saved, they repented before the law keepers.

When someone asked him what laws to keep then, he said to love God and to love your neighbor as yourself.
Those are what you need to do. Love. It is just common sense. If you see the chance to help someone, and you have the means to do it, then do it.

Unconditional love means you will love even your enemy. You will help someone although they might never help you in return or be able to repay you. You love to love, not for anything you will get.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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You might have wanted to add a *spoiler alert* to this topic.


That quest was definitely one of the best side quests in the game. I'm pretty sure you're on the right track with what the writers were thinking when they came up with the idea. Still, much of the fallout series quests are based upon novels, this one seems fairly similar to Shirley Jackson's short story "The Lottery" whose elements have also been seen while entering Nipton earlier in the game. They've got a few short movies of it on youtube, it's worth a watch, it's so creepy.

In any case, if life is such a test then I'm fairly certain that most people are failing it.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by Cocasinpry
You might have wanted to add a *spoiler alert* to this topic.


That quest was definitely one of the best side quests in the game. I'm pretty sure you're on the right track with what the writers were thinking when they came up with the idea. Still, much of the fallout series quests are based upon novels, this one seems fairly similar to Shirley Jackson's short story "The Lottery" whose elements have also been seen while entering Nipton earlier in the game. They've got a few short movies of it on youtube, it's worth a watch, it's so creepy.

In any case, if life is such a test then I'm fairly certain that most people are failing it.


The quest is soo obscure and out of the way that I hardly classify it as a spoiler..chances are, unless you are obsessive compulsive, you won't even do the quest or notice its existance..and not even sure if I completed it or not..but just became interested in its little mini plot.

I am sure this tale is telled often in various ways...I wouldn't mind hearing other stories, games, and movies with this general plotline..

the only way to break out of the game is to stop playing it...hmm...wargames suddenly comes to mind.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


A very good idea. For one thing, a true God would never, ever write a book that could be easily altered to suit an agenda. Second, a true God could not give humanity Free Will, then interfere with man's problems and such. Third, if everything on Earth has a male and a female counterpart, where is the female counterpart of this God? If you say "Goddess" to any Christian, or Muslim, or Hebrew, all will either deny, or start calling her names not fit to print.
And lastly, a true God would never let the world, his own creation, to hear Christians tell it, get into this condition, he would not have let man pollute the air and water, or dig in the Earth for coal and oil, gold and silver, and jewels.

Now for the "Church." They pay not a cent in taxes, but have more pull in Congress than any commoner does. They each call their building "God's house," but no God lives there. They each charge you "ties," 10% of your gross income, but the preachers get the money, and they live in better homes and drive better cars than you do. And they go door to door trying to get everyone to join them and give up their freedom and money, no to mention sex, that is a big no no to God. And last, when they give thanks for food, and things, they thank a man that they made into a God, and seem to forget that Mother Earth is the one who gave them the things they give thanks for. And they end every prayer by giving credence to the Sun God Amun Re of ancient Egypt.

Did I get everything?



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Science has helped man kill each other and the environment for as long as religion has, should we abolish it with religion? In example, when religion ruled we didn't have the ability to kill millions of people in an instant. We didn't have the ability to unleash such plagues on the Earth. We didn't have the ability to consume everything around us with the rate we do today.

Yet I don't see any Atheists jumping on this wagon. All I hear is without religion there would be peace without thinking twice.

I think a balance of both is good and if you don't like it fine. God doesn't want me to ignore what is taught in the New Testament. I am on the path that I am on because I have found God in my life and I wouldn't ignore it for the world.

God wants us to live our lives filled with love for him, others, and his creations. In the end, we all want to be loved.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 08:16 PM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Science has helped man kill each other and the environment for as long as religion has, should we abolish it with religion? In example, when religion ruled we didn't have the ability to kill millions of people in an instant.

If your a bible believer, I counter that statement with biblical floods, sodom and gommorah nuked, etc etc etc.

if your a realist, I will show you the crusades

if your anti-religious but also anti-science, I will mention the black plague.
mass death and destruction comes...science or not...and especially if religion is put in the picture



Yet I don't see any Atheists jumping on this wagon. All I hear is without religion there would be peace without thinking twice.

its a stupid wagon to jump on...only the truely insane would jump on that wagon.
people war ultimately for religion...consider the wars America is in today...would they exist if there was no religion? Would Al-Q exist? Would there be religious fanatics ready to slam planes into buildings?
the answer..is no..there is no perspective or subjective thoughts about it...it is a simple near mathmatical fact.
now, would there be wars? sure...resources are always sought out by nations..and until we get a fair way of dividing up resources for the planet, then things will be tense...but no more God made me kill the infidels, the heathens, etc...
religious fanatics use science to kill bigger, sure..but to equate the two..first off...science is not some sort of intangable religion...it is simply a means to understand stuff. the comparison is silly to the point of being short bus special.


I think a balance of both is good and if you don't like it fine. God doesn't want me to ignore what is taught in the New Testament. I am on the path that I am on because I have found God in my life and I wouldn't ignore it for the world.

Good for you, hopefully he won't go all abraham on you and tell you to kill your kids


God wants us to live our lives filled with love for him, others, and his creations. In the end, we all want to be loved.

I will be loved if I find love. I will give love also to those I love...but I won't substutute human interaction with the hope that a space ghost lubs me this much...especially when he is loving me the same as ralph on the other side of the world just the same, and klaaktu from the 4th planet of the Voorn star system, and a bajillion other lifeforms across the universe.

simplistic childhood fairytales...santa clause.



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 08:51 PM
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Excellent food for thought, I hope people really consider what you're saying. It's funny how something like a game can inspire deep thinking about our human condition.

There is so much to be said for "common sense" when it comes to overcoming religion, although, most of the time I think the average person needs a catalyst. Sometimes maybe it can be just a game that gets us thinking. Most of the time though, I think we need something more "severe". Maybe we lose a loved one, or are confronted with some absurdity that is finally the last straw. But when we can finally just "let go" of negative programming (not always "religious", a lot of it can be cultural, or based on socioeconomic backgrounds, etc.), there is a real payoff.

It's called freedom. And we may not even know, that we don't know what it feels like, but when we experience it, it is worth every bit of the pain that comes from admitting that we just don't KNOW.

As an agnostic, I can't indulge in "certainty" when it comes to things like life-after-death, or the meaning of life. Sure, it might be nice to "know". But the religionist really isn't any better off, they just imagine that they are. Meanwhile, they may be stuck in a whole lot of hurt, guilt, rituals, etc., many may even adhere to very unhealthy doctrines, for example, shunning medical care in favor of "faith healing". But, it takes what it takes as they say.

If the "truth" can set us free, then here's the truth: We need to be honest with ourselves, and just admit that we don't know these many things that religion asks us to have "faith" about. Maybe we all must have a level of "faith", regardless of our beliefs, or lack thereof, but I think there must come a time when we grow up, and stop sending that person each year to their death (so-to-speak).

A couple of months ago I wrote a fictional story about this very matter! I put it in the short story area of ATS, and it must have been too quirky, gruesome, or whatever...not many read it. But, that's not the ATS forte anyway, people here prefer reality to fiction, even if their reality is a bit twisted! I called it, "Final Sacrifice", and it explores religion, tradition, human sacrifice, and the eventual triumph of reason. Anyway, I wouldn't have written it if I didn't feel strongly about the very issue that you raise in this thread.

S & F from me!

JR



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 09:06 PM
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Any gamer should pay heed to the messages throughout the Fallout universe. The Vault-tec vaults in the canon story were never meant to save people from the impending apocalypse, 17 of the 122 were control groups, the rest were designed by the shadow government "Enclave" to be social experiments.


Link to a list of all the known vaults, experiment design and results.
edit on 11/22/2010 by eNumbra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


All religion, once realized, has it's own dissolution built right into itself, so in a way the OP is right imo, but for different reasons.

Once God is realized by humanity and comes to live WITH us again, in a new Golden Age, then religion can go on the shelf, for postery and a point of reference, nothing more.

That's what it was for to begin with, where religion means to "re-join".

So there will be tension in the interim between a faulty worldview and misunderstanding of the world and our place within it, and what the great religious traditions intended in the first place, God realized through humanity, God re-discovered, God-rejoined.

Religion then is like the cacoon of a caterrpillar.

Sadly, we're not ready to shed it yet.

Throwing it all away because we can't understand it or don't have the mind for it, that's just foolishness and plain ignorance OTOH, no offense.



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