Proof that Jesus existed.

I believe in Hitler because of my sense of sight.

I believe in Wind because of my sense of touch.

I believe in Skunks because of my sense of smell.

I believe in Friendship because of my sense of taste.

I believe in Music because of my sense of hearing.

I believe in Creativity and Problem Solving because of my sense of consciousness.

I believe in Honor because of my common sense.

I believe in Virtue because of my sense of self.

And I believe in Love because of all of my senses.

Yet none of my senses tell me that Jesus was ever a real person, but also that it doesn't matter at all.

It's completely up to YOU to make of your life - and mine - what you will.

God and Jesus are the ultimate scapegoats, and because of them, death will be an utter relief.

There is no proof of Jesus existing. As many will try to flaunt there logic of asking how would you believe Hitler existed. There's video, authentic photographs, records of his life and so forth. There's proof! With Jesus people have so many different views of the person that it's slim that any of them are correct. Jesus is like religious evolution. The image of Jesus changes so much it's crazy! Of course I believe Jesus is a myth all together. Look at other similar Pagan gods.
Pagan origins of the Jesus myth
I don't see why these are any different then Jesus. I was even blown away how different Judaism and Christianity are to one another. Christianity just borrows characters from Judaism and abuses them like crazy!
Jews for Judaism
Messiah Truth
Check these sites out and see how different Judaism and Christianity truly are. Once how history truly is and how all these religions come about you'll truly realize it's nothing but false hope.

If there would have been a murder case of Jesus bring before the court.
The tipping of the Justice Scale would have been the Roman Soldier.
Who made this statement: "SURELY HE WAS THE SON OF GOD"

reply to post by 19rn50


Do you have proof of that statement you just uttered out? I never seen that in the Bible. Don't use the Christian Bible as your source because that's not proof of Jesus or any other person in the NT.

dont think he mentioned it was ....


Did George Washington exist? What do we have? No photo... Oil paintings and the dollar bill doesnt count. History books doesnt count. I mean, by the same standards, be fair. Sure we can say Hitler was real, but how do ya know he wasnt just government propaganda to start WWII over oil?

Cmon guys, listen to some of your own logic and apply it universaly. None of this gets us anywhere but bickering about something that shouldnt even be an issue. By this logic, everything before photos doesnt exist. Greeks, Romans, Turks, Loui the 14th... Except the pyramids, they're still here. But Ive never seen them... sooooo


There comes a point where people should really just give up on this sorta thing. Im in high hopes that there are better topics than this in our near future, of the point of some of us being here is just.. well.. as pointless as this topic.

Originally posted by Mr. D

Sounds like you just want to stir up trouble
to me.

Seriously, I don't want to stir up any trouble.
All I am trying to achieve is a thread that can be refered back to in the event of someone attempting to steer other threads into the whole christian agenda.
If we can come to a collective agreement on whether Jesus existed as a fact, then the use of Jesus's teachings in unrelated threads would have a plausable reason, and like wise, if we can come to a collective decision that there is indeed a lack of evidence as to his existance, then it would be only fair to leave out the Jesus references in threads that don't really warrant it.
As stated in the OP, only accurate historical refferences please, the argument that Jesus is real "because he is" or "because I know in my heart" do not stand up as evidence.
Also, I am genuinley interested in the replies to this, I am here to learn and I do have an open mind.
Peace.

reply to post by theRhenn


Well like I said earlier we have records of George Washington and Adolf Hitler. I'm not just talking about paints or pictures here. There are no records of Jesus life out there of Jesus.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Just because ya dont believe in the bible doesnt mean it's not a historical document. Alot of our archeology today is finding that, aside from past beliefs, sites and history has been found because of it. So how can someone not say that the Bible is book of history, even if you dont believe in the spiritual aspect of it?

Ad as more than one poster mentioned, there are documents about him other than the bible. There is made mention of him even in roman documents. Very little, but it still stands.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Ok, then read what the scientist say about the time of his death.
That there was a eclipse, According to them the sky did turn black.
ancient documents are all we have for proof.
You win, and it your thread.

reply to post by theRhenn


George Washington's birth certificate is at Washington DC at the Smithsonisn American History museum ,that's got to be a start.

reply to post by theRhenn


I highly doubt what your saying. Can you link the sources and I will check them out. I mentioned earlier many people view Jesus differently and I feel that faith is not history. Bring up Noah's Ark and whatever else you can. There are many Deluge myths and whatever else. How is that proof?
POCM
Flood Myth
Creation Myths
Etemenanki
As you can see there are many similar tales, myths and stories from other beliefs in the past and today.

reply to post by 19rn50


Really now? Now post your source. I don't see any scientific evidence of Jesus dying and there being an eclipse in the sky. Muslims believe in Jesus and they say he didn't die. What is it? Muhammad even said he split the moon in half. Yet no one has written about the event.

claims some very famous miracles, such as the splitting of the moon. Realistically, had this happened, everyone on Arabia's side of the planet would have seen it, yet no one else ever wrote anything about it.

Source

Originally posted by NonKonphormist
After countless threads being hijacks by Christians, I have decide to start a thread asking for proof that Jesus actually existed.
I don't need any leaps of faith, just facts, the same as with any thread on ATS.
For example, no one would get away with saying that UFO's exist because they have faith that they do, we all scream for evidence.
So, I would like to hear some of the real historical evidence on the existance of Jesus, then maybe we can either end the hijacking of threads, or all be able to convert to the one real religion.

If this has been done before, sorry.

Looking forward to the reply's.

Good luck.

Countless scholars, scientists and historians have spent their entire careers trying to find evidence that he existed, so I doubt a thread on a forum like this will produce anything other than a load of religious nuts dictating their beliefs to you as some form of "evidence".

reply to post by NonKonphormist


You know what I'm getting at... Could be a forgery still.. According to the same logic..

Look, 2000 years have passed since. There isnt much that survived the dark ages for that matter, yet what we can piece together we use as history, no matter how little info there may be. If you want more proof than we can provide, perhaps you should speak with the vatican. They usually hide away all the important stuff. Good luck with that btw. Snowballs chance in hell there.

Just because there isnt much in the way of documents OUTSIDE the bible, doesnt mean it didnt happen.

We could go back and forth all day long and it still wouldnt matter. If I present one small bit of evidence, it will be said that it isnt enough. So... The bible is one.. a really small piece of roman documented info is another, Constantine is another (his mother went to isreal and found remnants), deciples are another (oh yeah, you dont credit anything other than the smithsonian), some guys eyewitness testimony...

Untill I can present his blood on a slide, you wouldnt believe it anyways.. So again.. whats the point?

Just because we have a birth certificate of a guy who claims to be GW, doesnt mean he was real. Hell, we can even agree that obama was born in hawaii, yet his BS is there... What if GW was born 2000 years ago but still had a BS? Could we dispute him the same way? What about Julius Ceasar? Ghengis Khan? You cant tell someone from China that Kunlia or Ghengis didnt exist, yet they're mearly story book hero's, the same way one would portray Jesus as just another bible story book hero. So we can run around in circles and chase our tails all day.. But for people who dont want to believe, you're simply not going to find the proof you want, so this really goes no where.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by theRhenn

 

I highly doubt what your saying. Can you link the sources and I will check them out. I mentioned earlier many people view Jesus differently and I feel that faith is not history. Bring up Noah's Ark and whatever else you can. There are many Deluge myths and whatever else. How is that proof?
POCM
Flood Myth
Creation Myths
Etemenanki
As you can see there are many similar tales, myths and stories from other beliefs in the past and today.

You see, thats where you're confused. I'm not tryin to offer you proof. I'm just telling you that this is pointless because no one can give you the proof YOU want to see. They simply didnt have photo's back 2000 years ago.

They had lightbulbs! They're carved on the walls in the pyramid...

See, it doesnt make a diffrence. What I would call proof you would call just another anomaly of no worth. Sooooo.. Whats the point?

reply to post by theRhenn


I would like authentic and legit records of your version of Jesus existing. If you can't offer the proof then what you believe is based on faith. Light bulbs are another story. History of the light bulb
Now hopefully you understand where I'm coming from.

Good luck.

Countless scholars, scientists and historians have spent their entire careers trying to find evidence that he existed, so I doubt a thread on a forum like this will produce anything other than a load of religious nuts dictating their beliefs to you as some form of "evidence".

This is something else I dont get. Ya know, just because people believe diffrent than you, doesnt give you the right to call them "nuts". Do you normaly cut down those you wish to have a civil argument with? Or all people who believe in GOD nuts to you? See, this is what offends me about some of these posts and why I really refrain from posting at times. In some way, you give the impression that you have a right to respond/post here and people that believe in such things do not.

Do you realise you're a part of a forum that actually exists because of these beliefs? Or do you think that only UFOs and conspiracies should apply? To some, they might be all one and the same. Or is it that you really believe in none of this at all and you're just here to bash and call people nuts for what they believe.

I'm ashamed really. Its just this sorta thing that really has me wanting to stop contributing and just go my merry way. This is exactly why such forums turn to crap, leaving people to search endlessly for a place where they can have CIVIL constructive arguments over such topics.

If you cant be constructive, why reply at all?

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by theRhenn

 

I would like authentic and legit records of your version of Jesus existing. If you can't offer the proof then what you believe is based on faith. Light bulbs are another story. History of the light bulb
Now hopefully you understand where I'm coming from.

I know where you're comming from. Dont you understand the words that are comming out of my fingers!

You're not going to get the proof you want but it does not mean he didnt exist. I know there are info out there based on the few things I have said but I'm not going to dig them up for you. I'm very certain more than a few people can also say the same, but they also will probably not dig it up either. They can if they wish, but I simply will not because it doesnt matter. I already know how the info will be taken. This horse has been beaten over and over again. If you wanna find the few shards of information that does exist, be my guest. It's out there, but none of it will offer the proof enough for you to accept it. Because there isnt alot of it and all of it can be based on "hear say". The bible is the best proof you'll get, but of course, you cant believe that, even though much of it is historicly found, even if you dont believe in the spiritual GOD/Jesus aspect of it.

So why would I want to waste my time? My point to my posts are just that... It makes no diffrence because it's not enough for you to accept it and the sources Id give, you wouldnt warrant. Just like you will not warrant the bible as being proof, even thought it IS a historical document.

reply to post by theRhenn


Well I have study Jesus here and there. There are to many dead ends that I end up in. Why I mentioned authentic was to see if Jesus existed and what he was truly like in the past. Maybe he did and he was just a normal guy. Christianity, Islam and other faiths view Jesus in some way or another. I would like to understand the real or original Jesus better.

reply to post by theRhenn


What a gorgeous post.
Now, can we get back on subject? We're looking for evidence of Jesus's existance.
Thanks,

Peace.