Proof that Jesus existed.

reply to post by theRhenn


Here's how I see it: many Christians think they are the only ones "going to heaven," therefore they look down on others while sanctimoniously saying that they will "pray for them," which is insulting and annoying. Some Jews are similar, thinking they are "God's chosen people," whereas Muslims think that their way is the truth and suicide bomb people. What's so moral about bombing innocent people in the name of God? Religion is the origin of inequality. Hero-worship is what leads humans to commit genocide. You seem intelligent, but I'm afraid you are just arguing with me because you are biased by your religion. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Here's how I see it: many Christians think they are the only ones "going to heaven," therefore they look down on others while sanctimoniously saying that they will "pray for them," which is insulting and annoying. Some Jews are similar, thinking they are "God's chosen people," whereas Muslims think that their way is the truth and suicide bomb people. What's so moral about bombing innocent people in the name of God? Religion is the origin of inequality. Hero-worship is what leads humans to commit genocide. You seem intelligent, but I'm afraid you are just arguing with me because you are biased by your religion. Am I wrong?

See that's where you are mistaken. I said I was born catholic, but I do not have a religion. I use the bible as my source, and I try to adhire to those laws which in turn would make me a better person should I follow them. Actually, if I followed every letter, I would be godly. If you've ever read the bible from beginning to end, you will find many sides, but if you really think about what you're reading, you will see that every problem in the world today is there. It teaches people how to overcome the problems, not cause them.

Just because religion has bad role models, doesnt mean they're bad. Thats like saying the post office is evil because it spawns madmen who kill fellow employees.

I think you have a big missconception about it, but that's just my opinion. But again, I follow NO religion. I have looked deeply in many beliefs and ways and religions and I take out of them what I find to be worthy, the rest I dont think twice about it, all for the search of my own personal truth. These qualities can be found in not just reading the bible or the tora or the koran, if you still to what it is saying, just as the writtings and beliefs in Toaism, Buddhism, ect. Religion is not evil. Hippocrits are But again, the world around you have all the same qualities, even on a much smaller scale, but it's there, no matter who you are, no matter what you believe or who you believe in.. Those qualities are in all. And it's up to mankind/womankind to overcome them and seek their own truth.

If you get a book on recipies and you find the one you want two things can happen...

You can follow it perfectly and come out with a great smelling, tasty dish.

If you leave out a few things, substitute things, add this and that... You're gonna come out with something that might make someone really sick.

You at least follow what I'm saying? It's not the recipie if you stick to it.. It's the person doing the cookin.


ooops. Forgot the very first part of your responce. I wanted to touch on this some. If someone comes up to me and blesses me with satan, I think I might be offended. But I dont think I would try to kill that guy or hate him because of it. This is true because it counters my beliefs. If an athiest comes up to me and blesses me with the wind or the nothing, I would laugh inside, even smile to him. This would be funny to me. It wouldnt offend me, but it might offend him if he was serious.

If you paid 60K for a sports car and show me and I say.. Hey man, you shoulda got red. To you, you may get offended because you may feel that your choice wasnt worthy enough to be "cool" and someone has to rain on your 60k parade.

You cant single out religion when all these SAME feelings fly across such a broad spectrum of life and how we deal with one another. Do we say things based on how we feel? Do we do these things while keeping the feelings of the other in mind? That's not religion, thats just reason. My bible tells me that we should do just this... Be aware of the world around you because it's simply the world and there are more than just you and often times so much bigger than you. But my "religion" (my bible) says that every single person on this earth is equal and I should act as such. Sure, some will look down on others for not being what they consider equal by beliefs, but the same is true to people in yaht clubs, golf clubs, hotrod shows, mopar vs chevy, republican vs democrat ect ect.

To narrow it down and look at religion as the original sin, the original blame for it all is simply foolishness. Anything can spawn and breed hate. Yes, even athiesm. It goes both ways. Athiests also badger people who believe just as people who believe badger athiest. I cant help it if some/many people take what they supposedly believe out of context.

reply to post by WashingtonGrewHemp


You are Correct..

"The Gospel According to John" Ch 3 Verse 13 Quote;

13. No MAN has ascended to Heaven
but He who came down from Heaven,
that is, The Son of MAN who is in Heaven.

Something Not understood today...

Note; "The Son of MAN" is referred to in the verse above, and Not a descendant of A'Dam (or Son of A'Dam) who is "the Damned one".

The title of "MAN" was given to the SOUL and Not the Flesh, as many believe today.

The title of A'Dam was given to the Flesh, a member of the Primate family, and Not the SOUL..

A'Dam's Life was the Breath i.e. Air.
But The LIGHT of MAN is The LIFE of God.
So The LIFE of The SOUL is The LIGHT which is the LIFE of God.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by NonKonphormist

 

lol this thread should be deleted for being pointless its like the lil kid on here asking for proof that someone got abducted by aliens go troll somewhere else

How am I being a troll? I have a genuine interest in this. I am not baiting anyone into anything, I am not forcing anyone into posting on this thread.
I have noticed that the most unnecessary vitriolic replies are coming from the Christians.

Please, this is not a thread to bash Christians, nor is it a thread to bang on about faith!
This is just about the historical aspect of Jesus, what evidence is there, it really is that simple, if anyone has a proper contribution, please contribute, if you just want to shout, point fingers and throw accusations around, do it somewhere else, you are just showing yourselves up.

If you are interested in this subject matter that I referred to, which you seem to be, I recommend reading something by Ernest Becker from the 1970's. You may not agree with everything he says, but you will at least see where I'm coming from. I've read great swaths of the Bible, and some of the content is truly scary. For example, in exodus, in the extended commandments, God says that if a slave owner hits a slave with a rod and he gets back up after a couple days without dieing, the slave owner will not be punished because "the slave is his money." I'll dig in to find the exact passage if you want me to, but my point is simply that you cannot rely on a Bronze Age moral authority to exact your actions in 2010. Or even the 1800's. Pro-slavery advocates from the Civil War era quoted the section of the Bible that I just mentioned to justify slavery. Similarly, Jihadists pick out self-serving scripture from the Koran to justify their violent actions. The 6th Pillar of Islam, is Jihad, in case you didn't know. Also, in the New Testament, Jesus says, "I bring not peace, but a sword." So, I'm not ignorant of what the Bible contains, in fact, the more I read, the more I doubt that it is benign. To say that "if I followed it completely I would be Godly" is pure absurdity. If you followed it exactly, you would be sacrificing animals a la Deuteronomy. When you said I was raised Catholic, that pretty much says it all. You are looking out for you kin. I can't say I blame you, but you have a misconception about Atheists. A real Atheist would never try to bless you with the wind, that sounds more Pagan to me. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. It's obvious that we will never agree on this one. Good luck finding meaning in life, and check out Ernest Becker- he says what I've said more eloquently. Cheers.

reply to post by NonKonphormist


Firstly i would like to know if YOU can prove Jesus didn't exist? secondly i dont agree with your comment that states christians hijack threads! christians ARE allowed to express thier own views just like any other religious person from his or her own religion. should the thread actually be called "any religeon in the world can say whatever they want regardless of the concequences apart from christians" anyway......

i personally cant proove he did exist but it would make my day if someone did just to shut them up.

Why would 12 followers allow themselves to be hunted, tortured, and martyred for something they knew wasn't real? All but John were directly killed for their faith. (John was exiled to an island to die) Maybe- just maybe you could say that one or two were nuts, like Judas, but all of them? and hundreds of other witnesses? Not likely.

i havent follwed any of these lately but did the shroud of turin ever get proven? or the Jesus box?

Originally posted by infoquest
reply to post by NonKonphormist

 

Firstly i would like to know if YOU can prove Jesus didn't exist?

Nope, and if I could I certainly would not have started this thread.

secondly i dont agree with your comment that states christians hijack threads! christians ARE allowed to express thier own views just like any other religious person from his or her own religion.

I have no objection to anyone, regardless of their religious beliefs, expressing their own views, as long as they are relevent to the particular thread.

should the thread actually be called "any religeon in the world can say whatever they want regardless of the concequences apart from christians"

No, don't think so. ( bit long winded, and not correct)

i personally cant proove he did exist.

So you don't actually have anything constructive to offer to this thread?

Why would 12 followers allow themselves to be hunted, tortured, and martyred for something they knew wasn't real? All but John were directly killed for their faith. (John was exiled to an island to die) Maybe- just maybe you could say that one or two were nuts, like Judas, but all of them? and hundreds of other witnesses? Not likely.

i havent follwed any of these lately but did the shroud of turin ever get proven? or the Jesus box?

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by anonymousanonymous
I'll give you a very simple "proof" that Jesus did in fact, exist. - That proof is time itself.

"Dictionary definition : A.D.

An abbreviation used with a date, indicating how many years have passed since the birth of Jesus. The abbreviation may appear before the date (a.d. 1988), or it may appear after the date (1988 a.d.). It stands for anno Domini, a Latin phrase meaning “in the year of our Lord.”"

So - In other words, to relate to your thread, since the beginning of our calender - when it was decided to start counting the years they (The Romans) have based the starting point from the birth of Jesus. - If Jesus did not indeed exist - there would be people saying, "Emm, hang on a minute - We're counting from the birth of who?" - and it would not have been accepted - but it HAS been accepted - so therefore - Jesus must have existed.

For the record, I'm agnostic.

Did no one read this post? Read it and think about it... yeah it's called proof.
Why, why, why would they use a person that never exhisted?????????????

Thank-you soldier.

It must really annoy the Atheists every time they write, "November 23rd 2010" or any date for that matter : "Yes, I agree! 2010 years since the birth of someone I don't believe existed." Lol

Hey atheists! - Why don't you just start writing the date like this, "November 23rd (insert your age)" it'll make more sense to you right??

reply to post by anonymousanonymous


How can something annoy that I don't believe exist? There are multiple calenders that are used the world over. The Hebrew calendar would be a great place to start. As well the Julian calendar.

Please, this is not a thread to bash Christians, nor is it a thread to bang on about faith! This is just about the historical aspect of Jesus, what evidence is there? It really is that simple, if anyone has a proper contribution, please contribute, if you just want to shout, point fingers and throw accusations around, do it somewhere else.
Peace.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by anonymousanonymous

 

How can something annoy that I don't believe exist? There are multiple calenders that are used the world over. The Hebrew calendar would be a great place to start. As well the Julian calendar.

So then what day is it today? - Would you like to tell me how YOU write what year it is? Because if you tell me it's 2010.. I'll just laugh at you. If you deny the birth of Jesus, you can deny the year is 2010 too.

Originally posted by anonymousanonymous

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by anonymousanonymous
I'll give you a very simple "proof" that Jesus did in fact, exist. - That proof is time itself.

"Dictionary definition : A.D.

An abbreviation used with a date, indicating how many years have passed since the birth of Jesus. The abbreviation may appear before the date (a.d. 1988), or it may appear after the date (1988 a.d.). It stands for anno Domini, a Latin phrase meaning “in the year of our Lord.”"

So - In other words, to relate to your thread, since the beginning of our calender - when it was decided to start counting the years they (The Romans) have based the starting point from the birth of Jesus. - If Jesus did not indeed exist - there would be people saying, "Emm, hang on a minute - We're counting from the birth of who?" - and it would not have been accepted - but it HAS been accepted - so therefore - Jesus must have existed.

For the record, I'm agnostic.

Did no one read this post? Read it and think about it... yeah it's called proof.
Why, why, why would they use a person that never exhisted?????????????

Thank-you soldier.

It must really annoy the Atheists every time they write, "November 23rd 2010" or any date for that matter : "Yes, I agree! 2010 years since the birth of someone I don't believe existed." Lol

Hey atheists! - Why don't you just start writing the date like this, "November 23rd (insert your age)" it'll make more sense to you right??

edit on 23-11-2010 by anonymousanonymous because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2010 by anonymousanonymous because: (no reason given)

It must really annoy you when you have to say the days of the week, most of which are named after the Norse Gods, and by your stunted logic, they must have existed too!
Why, why, why would they use a person/s that never exhisted?????????????

There you are. Hope that link helps you a bit. You can do your own research if you want, in order to verify it.

Did Jesus Really Existed? Is there Historical evidence?

It is also important to recognize that in A.D. 70, the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground. We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eyewitnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.

Considering that Jesus' ministry was largely confined to a relatively unimportant area in a small corner of the Roman Empire, a surprising amount of information about Jesus can be drawn from secular historical sources. Some of the more important historical evidences of Jesus include the following:

The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious “Christians” (from Christus, which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44). Flavius Josephus is the most famous Jewish historian. In his Antiquities he refers to James, “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ.” There is a controversial verse (18:3) that says, “Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man. For he was one who wrought surprising feats....He was [the] Christ...he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him.” One version reads, “At this time there was a wise man named Jesus. His conduct was good and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. But those who became his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion, and that he was alive; accordingly he was perhaps the Messiah, concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.”

Julius Africanus quotes the historian Thallus in a discussion of the darkness which followed the crucifixion of Christ (Extant Writings, 18). Pliny the Younger, in Letters 10:96, recorded early Christian worship practices including the fact that Christians worshiped Jesus as God and were very ethical, and he includes a reference to the love feast and Lord’s Supper.

The Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) confirms Jesus' crucifixion on the eve of Passover and the accusations against Christ of practicing sorcery and encouraging Jewish apostasy. Lucian of Samosata was a second-century Greek writer who admits that Jesus was worshiped by Christians, introduced new teachings, and was crucified for them. He said that Jesus' teachings included the brotherhood of believers, the importance of conversion, and the importance of denying other gods. Christians lived according to Jesus’ laws, believed themselves to be immortal, and were characterized by contempt for death, voluntary self-devotion, and renunciation of material goods.

Mara Bar-Serapion confirms that Jesus was thought to be a wise and virtuous man, was considered by many to be the king of Israel, was put to death by the Jews, and lived on in the teachings of His followers.

Then we have all the Gnostic writings (The Gospel of Truth, The Apocryphon of John, The Gospel of Thomas, The Treatise on Resurrection, etc.) that all mention Jesus.

Hope that helps a bit to your research.

Originally posted by NonKonphormist

Originally posted by anonymousanonymous

Originally posted by Soldier of God

Originally posted by anonymousanonymous
I'll give you a very simple "proof" that Jesus did in fact, exist. - That proof is time itself.

"Dictionary definition : A.D.

An abbreviation used with a date, indicating how many years have passed since the birth of Jesus. The abbreviation may appear before the date (a.d. 1988), or it may appear after the date (1988 a.d.). It stands for anno Domini, a Latin phrase meaning “in the year of our Lord.”"

So - In other words, to relate to your thread, since the beginning of our calender - when it was decided to start counting the years they (The Romans) have based the starting point from the birth of Jesus. - If Jesus did not indeed exist - there would be people saying, "Emm, hang on a minute - We're counting from the birth of who?" - and it would not have been accepted - but it HAS been accepted - so therefore - Jesus must have existed.

For the record, I'm agnostic.

Did no one read this post? Read it and think about it... yeah it's called proof.
Why, why, why would they use a person that never exhisted?????????????

Thank-you soldier.

It must really annoy the Atheists every time they write, "November 23rd 2010" or any date for that matter : "Yes, I agree! 2010 years since the birth of someone I don't believe existed." Lol

Hey atheists! - Why don't you just start writing the date like this, "November 23rd (insert your age)" it'll make more sense to you right??

edit on 23-11-2010 by anonymousanonymous because: (no reason given)

edit on 23-11-2010 by anonymousanonymous because: (no reason given)

It must really annoy you when you have to say the days of the week, most of which are named after the Norse Gods, and by your stunted logic, they must have existed too!
Why, why, why would they use a person/s that never exhisted?????????????

Emm, you can call an object what ever you like. You can call a Sunday "Crapday" - but we're talking about why we started counting from 1 A.D. - This isn't about naming conventions - it's about mathematics.

For example:

If you wanted to count something from a particular event - if you were wanting to log something - would you just make something up?? Would you just say... "Hmmm.. Lets see, we'll go back 70 years - and we'll pretend a guy named Jesus was born.. and we'll count from his birthday!" - do you not think people would have said, "Hang on a minute, I'm not starting to count in years from someones birth that you just made up - I'm happy calling next year the year 30,791."

Seems the longer people leave historic facts - the dumber they get. I mean, we are counting from his birth. Could Obama turn around and tell everyone - "Hey everyone, we're going to start counting the years from Harry Potter's birth - so today is actually November 23rd 19H.P." (Harry Potter)

reply to post by FermiFlux

Well we've actually got pics and videos of Hitler

But works on Hitler were not written long after he died, unlike Jesus.

Ignorant post of the century. ^^^

We have works written by numerous men who were alive at the time Jesus was. Even from hostile sources.

Do you deny that Alexander The Great was a historical figure???

Do you realize the first written accounts of Alexander appeared 400 YEARS after he died?



Use the same "logic" for Alexander that you use for Jesus and you'll see your monumental gaffe.

reply to post by anonymousanonymous


Sure I'll tell what today is 16th of Kislev, 5771 in the Hebrew calendar. Hebrew Calander Should I continue? Just because another calendar was influenced from Christianity does not make Jesus a real person. Continue to laugh at me. I could care less what you think of me and my beliefs in life.
Pagan origins of the Jesus myth
What about these figures? They had dates and times about them through their cultures. Are they real too?

reply to post by anonymousanonymous


If there was no record of the birth, how could they accurately work out, hundreds of years later, when year one was?
Genuine question.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by anonymousanonymous

 

Sure I'll tell what today is 16th of Kislev, 5771 in the Hebrew calendar. Hebrew Calander Should I continue? Just because another calendar was influenced from Christianity does not make Jesus a real person. Continue to laugh at me. I could care less what you think of me and my beliefs in life.
Pagan origins of the Jesus myth
What about these figures? They had dates and times about them through their cultures. Are they real too?

I asked YOU what year YOU call it.

You'll call it 2010 won't you?

Boo hoo.. You didn't even realise that all this time you've been accepting the birth of Jesus every time you write 2010 in your Dear Sally diary.

Originally posted by NonKonphormist
reply to post by anonymousanonymous

 

If there was no record of the birth, how could they accurately work out, hundreds of years later, when year one was?
Genuine question.

Good question buddy.

I'll tell you - because it wasn't hundreds of years later like you suggest. The gregorian calender was an updated version with minor changes due to leaning more about lunar cycles etc. It was the months that got changed. The year 1500 was accepted, because that IS what year it was. Since the Romans started counting back in 70 odd A.D.

reply to post by anonymousanonymous


Accepting Jesus birth? I'm not accepting his birth because I write 2010. 2010! There I did it again. By your logic I accepted Judaism and the beliefs by posting the current date of the Jewish calendar 16th of Kislev, 5771. Oh shot Jews don't believe in Jesus. I'm a walking contradiction!