Proof that Jesus existed.

Just figured i'd go ahead and admit I traveled back in time and pulled off a few tricks with my Iphone, and zippo...

Prove to me that last night was the last night that you'll ever beat your wife.

Isn't that pretty much your premise? It's a loaded question, but you already knew that, didn't you? You already have your answer, you just want to stir up the hornets nest for the fun of it. As many have already stated; it's a matter of FAITH. You had FAITH in your decision to post this thread knowing it would be provocative. That's what FAITH is; that feeling that you can't quit express; the hope that things will turn out the way you want them to. You rely on FAITH everyday of your life, whether you choose to admit it or not. Your FAITH may not be religiously based, but it is FAITH nonetheless.

Therein lies YOUR dilemma; what do YOU base your FAITH on?

you did a bad job at naming the title of this. tomfoolery

reply to post by phatpackage

"I will say it again anyone who believes in religion is brainwashed! "

I have to take issue with that statement. I don't know what you truly believe, but I can bet you are convinced you are right. And you will vehemently defend whatever it is you believe, live by, and have convictions of. So just because you might have created your own belief system, makes you no less religious than any Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu out there.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by phatpackage

 

"I will say it again anyone who believes in religion is brainwashed! "

I have to take issue with that statement. I don't know what you truly believe, but I can bet you are convinced you are right. And you will vehemently defend whatever it is you believe, live by, and have convictions of. So just because you might have created your own belief system, makes you no less religious than any Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu out there.

At least I don't blindly believe in an institution that either starts wars, oppresses women, molests children. I could go on & on. Then they do some charity & that is supposed to overshadow all the bad ... hmmmm ... And there's more the faithful of that religion turn a blind eye to this. yes religion is brainwashing otherwise the clergy & its followers would not stand for all the bad that is committed in the name of religion!!!!!!!! This thread was brilliant it simply asked for proof & look at the responses. There is still no proof & yet people blindingly defending it!

I've recently made an interesting discovery in my own quest, from my POV, and that is - I've discovered, and am now continually re-discovering, in Jesus, the man, the Brahman depicted as Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita.
This will be fully explained and explored, with a special Introduction I'm going to be typing in to the "Beautiful Bhagavad Gita" thread over in Psychology, Philosophy and Metaphysics composed by the leading English language Gita scholar and translator of the 20th century, a guy named Eknath Easwaran, who was also a friend of Mahatma Gandhi's. Now THIS may sound perhaps, crazy, or adbsurd, or even worse.. at first glance, by BOTH atheist AND Chrstian ALIKE! But if you maintain an open mind, and heart, you will see just what I mean, or you may, those with the eyes to see and the ears to hear, and the imagination, to envision, as well as the soul, to test and examine with.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by youdidntseeme

 

The vision of Jesus that Christians all believe to be that of Jesus is in fact Leonardi Di Vinci. From what I gather, Jesus was far from the oil paintings and was in fact short in stature, auburn hair, hazel eyes, olived skin, was slightly hunch backed and was in fact born in Jan/Feb and not Dec.

I can appreciate that, but it doesnt exactly answer my question.

I was asking what proof would be acceptable.
It seems that you in fact already believe in Jesus' existence, as do I, but the OP was asking for proof, so I am simply asking what proof would be acceptable for the reasons of this thread.

As you may have surmised, there are countless books on this subject. My suggestion is that you find some of them and read them.

At one time, scholars said that the Hittites did not exist. They said King David did not exist. They did not know the line of Egyptian pharaohs, and assumed that Ramses did not exist.

Now we know better.

If you are looking for a photograph from 2000 years ago, look to the Shroud of Turin and it's corroborating facecloth found in Spain. You may not be up to date on the proof of the Shroud.

Don't you find it ironic that people accept evolution, and don't accept Jesus? If anything, the proof tends to support Jesus and defy evolution.

reply to post by Jim Scott

Or Jesus is the apex of evolution! That's what I believe, and what I'm beginning to rediscover. It's by no means either/or, this is a terrible fallacy or error on the part of Biblical Literalists who do not read the Bible ah..between the lines between the lines, to say that it must ALL be accepted literally as the final authortative "word of God", or, if any part of it is shown to be false or contradictory in any way, then it must then be thrown away, as of little or no value. We as Christians might as well then just throw our Bibles on the fire! - or hand them over to an atheist to do the dirty work for us! What an outrage, what a disgrace, when you think about that. That's just a set up by the ignorance of the church, or the devil in disguise to go that route (creation 6000 years ago, in one week by own own calendar). Stop I say, in the name of the Lord! That's utter foolishness, and we as Christians ought not be so foolish. There's indoctrinated brainwashing, and then the real food and water, and to be food, to be nourishing, it must be processed at all levels for the living food and water that it is. You know sometimes I am really starting to feel like one lone candlestick in a very large and very dark world. What an honour. Send me Lord, send me!

reply to post by Jim Scott

Don't you find it ironic that people accept evolution, and don't accept Jesus? If anything, the proof tends to support Jesus and defy evolution.

And the winner for the most ironic quote goes to "Jim Scott"!

Evolution has vast amounts of evidence to support the theory. All Christians have is faith. Jesus never existed. There is no evidence. The Shroud of Turin proves nothing at all. What I'm and billions of others want the truth! If you can't offer evidence and other items to support Jesus then he doesn't exist.

Good thread OP

It's a difficult answer though, because no one can really prove nor disprove his exsistence. We could debate for years about this and still never come to an answer everyone can agree upon and be happy with.

I'm going to throw out an idea, not a belief. Thousands of people from around the world who've had near-death experiences, somehow all describe seeing and interacting with the same 'entity', which they believe is Jesus. Now this has two problems, one- there's many people that don't believe NDE's are legit. two- even if NDE's do happen, they would be seeing him as a heavenly entity, which doesn't necessarily mean he ever exsisted here on earth.

I personally believe in Jesus, but with everything else, we'll never REALLY know til we die I suppose.

reply to post by casijones


Source?

I have never read or heard that all NDEs share a visit with Jesus. In fact most I have heard about involve either an unknown other "being", a predeceased relative, or just a warm feeling of love. Jesus himself seems to actually be quite rare so I am curious where you got that from.

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
I don't care if Muhammad existed. Islam is the same as Judaism and Christianity- evil hero-worship that causes structured inequality. Every one in academia agrees with me.

Religion will go the way of the Dodo eventually when people get sick and tired of hearing about Middle East Peace, which is an utter impossibility. People kill each other because they believe in slightly different myths, all with the same origin. It's idiotic, and I'll have no part in it.

So if religion is evil, which I agree that religion does cause problems, yet it does not mean it's evil... Just people that take things away from what was writen... Then in my case, i've always said that if I didnt believe in GOD, I just might be that person that didnt believe in sin. Which would mean that pretty much anything goes.

Which is more evil?

a) Sitting at home praying for good things to come
b) Sneaking into your house and taking your belongings because I feel I deserve them better than you.

a) Walking away, turning the other cheek when someone slanders me or fills me with rage over something done to me
b) Getting revenge when no one is looking, taking out family, friends, anyone around to witness it the revenge.

a) Humbly working towards a goal in life that I feel is right by myself and by others around me
b) Screwing the lil old lady down the street from her lifes savings with a bad scam because I dont feel she needs it.

a) Providing for those who are without as I have plenty
b) Starve damnit. I worked for what I have. Get your own!


So how again does a belief in something we percieve as good, evil? Is evil really just in the eye of the beholder? I dont feel your child should exist because you the parents are idiots.. So, lets stop the propigation of the species now.. (kinda sounds like what governments are doing now).

There really is simple logic to alot around us if we just sit down and stop being so adimant about learning the real answers.

Originally posted by phatpackage

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by phatpackage

 

"I will say it again anyone who believes in religion is brainwashed! "

I have to take issue with that statement. I don't know what you truly believe, but I can bet you are convinced you are right. And you will vehemently defend whatever it is you believe, live by, and have convictions of. So just because you might have created your own belief system, makes you no less religious than any Christian, Buddhist, or Hindu out there.

At least I don't blindly believe in an institution that either starts wars, oppresses women, molests children. I could go on & on. Then they do some charity & that is supposed to overshadow all the bad ... hmmmm ... And there's more the faithful of that religion turn a blind eye to this. yes religion is brainwashing otherwise the clergy & its followers would not stand for all the bad that is committed in the name of religion!!!!!!!! This thread was brilliant it simply asked for proof & look at the responses. There is still no proof & yet people blindingly defending it!

edit on 22-11-2010 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-11-2010 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-11-2010 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)

So do you stand against your government? Your local, state and federal? Or are you simply an induvidual that believes only in yourself and nothing else? Take the rest away and all you have is yourself. Feel like planting your own guarden for food, peddling a bicicle tied to a generator for electricity? I also could go on and on..

Just because there are some bad eggs in the carton, it doesnt mean all of them are bad, even if 11 of them are... 1 still stands good to be used.


gah! Cmon. Why is this still going on? Im waiting for some people to just start arguing themselves out of existance. That will be a sight to see!

reply to post by theRhenn


Religion usually promotes subjugating outsiders. It's possible to be moral without following an organized religion, in fact evolutionary biologists would argue that "moral" behaviors are part of our natural survival system, as humans work together. I like Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism, because they don't try to proselytize, and they have proven themselves to be peaceful. However, I've been watching Jews kill Muslims, Christians kill Muslims, and Muslims kill Jews and Christians for quite some time and I've lost any hope that their religions are helping them behave morally.

Originally posted by WashingtonGrewHemp
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Religion usually promotes subjugating outsiders. It's possible to be moral without following an organized religion, in fact evolutionary biologists would argue that "moral" behaviors are part of our natural survival system, as humans work together. I like Taoism, Buddhism, and Hinduism, because they don't try to proselytize, and they have proven themselves to be peaceful. However, I've been watching Jews kill Muslims, Christians kill Muslims, and Muslims kill Jews and Christians for quite some time and I've lost any hope that their religions are helping them behave morally.

Athiesm does the same exact thing. Need proof? Look around these forums.

Its deeper than religion. It's personal choice.

reply to post by theRhenn


No it doesn't. Show me where there are atheists killing each other constantly in the world.

Originally posted by russ212
reply to post by NWOnoworldorder

 

And yes, someone did, and yes they can. It is like saying dinosaurs didn't exsist.

What? No, not at all. Go to any museum and there will be evidence...there is tons of proof dinosaurs actually existed.

To the thread...who the hell is actually going to have on them proof that Jesus existed...you say show me proof, that's laughable. The threadmaker must be a faithless human.

Jesus was the Lebron James of his era...super celebrity that everybody knew or heard of.

reply to post by WashingtonGrewHemp


Exclude any nations that use religion specificly as reason for war.

US - War for oil (not religion)
China - Only recently is there a tolerance for religion.
N. Korea - Once forbidden, again recently alowed, but still usually kill off those christians. The only god the people are alowed to worship is the the commie bastard that runs it.

You're saying that because the populace of a contries majority is religious, so to are there wars, no matter how many athiest exist in that country. GBjr "may" have had some personal belief that he should take over Iraq because of his faith, but do you really think this is true? I'm going to go one step further and say.. Show me the proof.

Do you really think the Catholic church took over much of the known world, sending many many people to their death because of Religion? Hardly. They took out everything that was a threat to their agenda. To say otherwise, you'd have to prove to me that every single one of those popes believed in GOD the way I do, by the Bible (wait that was the number 1 book on the ban list).

I think that quite a bit of the world does not believe in their religion, otherwise they might actually read and understand the words they are spewing out left and right, and thus... no war, because every single religion that I know of teaches otherwise.

So no one can prove to me that religion kills... It's the lack of belief in their religion that alows them to do such things. Unless you're talking about the Aztecs, I dont know which religions you speak of. Not when you can have Jews, Muslims and Christans eating at the same table... which actually happens in various circles. I dont chase my best friend around with an axe because he is an athiest and I feel he needs converting..

Sorry bro, your responce does not hold water, no matter what self portrayed smart guy says so. To me, that is just as ignorant as someone claiming that religion causes the worlds problems. Its the heads of those countries and factions that causes problems.

Fictitious Jesus did cover this thread rather well. He does not exist to those to whom Jesus was fictitious.