Sharia lessons for pupils aged six: BBC uncovers weekend schools that teach pupils how to hack off t

reply to post by oozyism

Freedom of speech.

You dont have freedom of speech to incite unjust violence, genocide, or promoting killing someone based just on race, religion or sexual orientation. Freedom of speech has some limits, and thats how it should be.

Originally posted by Maslo


No it is not. In the first case, the children know it is only a movie, a work of fiction, and even that they shoud not be watching it.
In the second case, adults they trust (teachers) are presonally and directly teaching them that killing homosexuals and acting violently is not only not wrong, its the preffered way to act in a society, in reality, not in the movie.

You have to prove the above, because now you are jumping to the realm of assumptions.

I don't think they are teaching "killing homosexuals and acting violently is OK or preferred way to act in a society".

I think they are teaching, "the law must not allow homosexuality, the punishment for homosexuality under the law should be death".

Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by oozyism

 

Muslim pupils as young as six also teach that the penalty for gay sex is execution

Are you also okay with this?

Nope.

but

people can have that belief if they want.

Yes, they can have tha belief if they want, but it's something quite different when they put those odious beliefs into practice.

I'm sure I don't have to post those pictures of consentual adult homosexuals in Iran being publicly hanged from cranes do I?

As a slght aside I would genuinely appreciate your opinion and insight on this thread;
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
we need to start putting all our kids into the same class room, There should be NO religious schools. The only way we can have any change for the future is teach all children together. We all have to live together and the best way of socialising everyone together is going to the same schools, where kids can mix and boundaries like religion can be left outside.

I am interested to hear what others think the solution to the problem is. We know that groups like the EDL do little but make the problem worse, so what should be done?

I definately agree. If we even allow religious or alternative schools, they should be strictly controlled, to ensure they are not ideologically brainwashing the children, instead of teaching them.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by oozyism

 

Freedom of speech.

You dont have freedom of speech to incite unjust violence, genocide, or promoting killing someone based just on race, religion or sexual orientation. Freedom of speech has some limits, and thats how it should be.

Or there should be no freedom of speech, and everyone should be spied on.



Because ultimately guns don't kill people, rappers do:

I think the Countrys are starting to get on the right track now though.

End of day If we were to move to their country we would respect and like that culture or would not wish to become part of It, so not be so hypocritical as to apply there.

The Interesting thing Is most here applied for protection - stating how much they feared and hated the culture, lol yet then enforce It here and try to live like that here . It IS NOT fair on the genuine people who wanted a new life - but I believe when the first lot are sent back and their own govt sees what was on the application and why they have had their visa removed, although their death will not be pretty - It Is alas there law they wanted here LOL.

I think most countrys will start sending them back - we have new rules being brought In here now where they will charge anyone arranging marriages with Human Trafficing - only fair If It Is Illegal to the people who were born here and live here legally without needing to ask permission to come - WHY should guests of the country be allowed to act as criminals within that country.

If I go overseas - I respect the culture of the country I am visiting, dress and act accordingly, out of respect - If I didnt have that respect - I would not be a hypocrite and visit there, never mind move there. And trust there are certain countrys ( no names needed lol ) I have never visited as I will not provide one dollar In Income via tourism to them, due to how they stone people to death ect. And over sml Irrelevant things ... like freedom of thought!

I feel sorry for the Children - no childhood just death, murder, physical torture and mental abuse drummed Into them from birth.

If a cult was to start teaching children to cut hands off people - they would be jailed and probably for life, and I feel It Is just time til the new rules In each country that does not allow their own people to do this are brought In the same for the muslim culture.

Only country seemingly allowing It now Is USA for some reason.

Odd actually.

Still I must say lol - most Australian muslims do not wear headcovers and their children go to normal primary schools and play and laugh with the other Children. And I doubt they would know about Hands being cutting off - as that Is why their parents came here.. to finally be free and allow their children peace and freedom.
It Is only the ones coming In within the last 5 yrs that have been these types and they are most unpleasant to say the least.

Call me evil - but I am still laughing about the woman and her family who made up lies against the police thinking they would get more big pay out from tax payers .. to find she Is getting jail and prob thrown from the country once they release her. LOL LOVE ITTTTTT!!!

news.ninemsn.com.au...
That links just about the new rules re arranged marriages being brought In here.

reply to post by Freeborn


Duuh, when it comes to practice, it mustn't be allowed, if it goes against the law.

Here, try my thread, which is related to the link you posted, I think you will enjoy the read :

Stop the prosecution of Christians Pakistan!!!

reply to post by oozyism

You have to prove the above, because now you are jumping to the realm of assumptions.

Do you think children are stupid and dont know that movies are fiction? Even if they are allowed by parents to watch violent movies, the society is also "indirectly" telling them that they should not take example from them - by age restrictions.
Thats wery different from teaching in schools

I don't think they are teaching "killing homosexuals and acting violently is OK or preferred way to act in a society".

They do:

Muslim pupils as young as six also teach that the penalty for gay sex is execution

I think they are teaching, "the law must not allow homosexuality, the punishment for homosexuality under the law should be death".

Whats the difference? They teach that punishing homosexuals by death (killing) is the preffered way to act in a society, preffered to that extent that it should be made into law. Dont argue semantics.

Would you also say teaching this to children would be OK?:
The law must not allow black skin, the punishment for black skin under the law should be death.

reply to post by oozyism


Saw that thread which was why I was wanting you to publicly comment on those pronouncements of Sharia Law.

I don't agree with your reasoning that Allah and Islam will eventually win through etc but I certainly agree and appreciate the sentiments expressed about tolerance and respect.

I'm a bit confused by your last response; are you saying that because it is Sharia and Iranian law then it is ok to hang homosexuals and other Sharia judgements like stoning to death rape victims, adulterers, apostates etc?

Clarity not ambiguity my friend.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by oozyism

 

Do you think children are stupid and dont know that movies are fiction? Even if they are allowed by parents to watch violent movies, the society is also "indirectly" telling them that they should not take example from them - by age restrictions.
Thats wery different from teaching in schools

Let's bring this back to the realm of facts:
Do you think Muslim kids who studied in such schools will grow up to kill homosexuals more often than kids watching Hostel torturing people? (keep in mind we are talking about UK here, so don't drift off)

They do:

Muslim pupils as young as six also teach that the penalty for gay sex is execution

Nope, you are trying to play games now. There is a huge difference between the punishment for breaking a law, than killing someone outside the law. When you kill someone outside the law, it is regarded as Murder. When you execute someone within the law, it isn't murder.

I just want you to choose your words carefully, don't make claims such as "the schools teach that it is OK to kill homosexuals, or a preferred way of society".. Not the exact quote, but from top of my head.

Whats the difference? They teach that punishing homosexuals by death (killing) is the preffered way to act in a society, preffered to that extent that it should be made into law. Dont argue semantics.

You are assuming that they are teaching these kids to kill homosexuals by death outside the law, that is what you are trying to pose in your statement. I want you to take it out, and make it clear, that you are making an assumption, when you claim that the school is teaching kids to kill homosexuals as punishment outside the law.

That is true absolutely false.

Would you also say teaching this to children would be OK?:
The law must not allow black skin, the punishment for black skin under the law should be death.

edit on 22/11/10 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

This is about belief, everyone has the right to believe in what ever they want and to pass on that belief to their kids. When the kids grow, they can choose whether to adhere it or not.

Some in the world would argue that homosexuality is a choice, but that is a different topic. Make a thread about it and I will be there.

reply to post by Freeborn


No one can criticize someone else's laws. No system is perfect.

Second line.

reply to post by oozyism

Do you think Muslim kids who studied in such schools will grow up to kill homosexuals more often than kids watching Hostel torturing people?

Yes, its very probable.

Nope, you are trying to play games now. There is a huge difference between the punishment for breaking a law, than killing someone outside the law.

I see where you are pointing with this, but I disagree, That way you can justify anything - "I am not advocating breaching human rights, see, I am advocating changing the law so that breaching human rights wont be a crime, and then we should breach them."

Western states are republics, not unlimited democracies, that means some things (like making murder or rape legal, killing people because of their color, religion or orientation etc. Things that are not compatible with the Declaration of basic human rights) cannot be made into law, no matter what percentage of people want them. Republics are bound to make all their laws compatible with the Declaration, and openly advocating laws that are against it is (and should be) also illegal. Thats the protection against another Hitler.

reply to post by oozyism


So let's be clear; you refuse to criticise or condemn Iran for executing victims of rape or homosexuals because it is their law?

You refuse to criticise or condemn Pakistan for sentencing to death a woman for allegedly blaspheming despite no suppotive evidence because it is Pakistani law?

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by oozyism

 

Yes, its very probable.

Kids have been studying this for a long time, is there any evidence? I studied such laws, I was though these laws, but I haven't even thought about killing homosexuals, infact I think they are the kindest people around, except the ones in K-Road.. Talk to a Kiwi about K-Road, he/she should know

I see where you are pointing with this, but I disagree, That way you can justify anything - "I am not advocating breaching human rights, see, I am advocating changing the law so that breaching human rights wont be a crime, and then we should breach them."

Western states are republics, not unlimited democracies, that means some things (like making murder or rape legal, killing people because of their color, religion or orientation etc. Things that are not compatible with the Declaration of basic human rights) cannot be made into law, no matter what percentage of people want them. Republics are bound to make all their laws compatible with the Declaration, and openly advocating laws that are against it is (and should be) also illegal. Thats the protection against another Hitler.

As I said previously, some could argue that being homosexual is a choice, that is a different subject. If you want to discuss it, I'm willing.

but for now

I will stick to my point, that they are not teaching to kill homosexuals in these schools, they are teaching a law (a law which they perceive is right). The kids can decide whether that law is right or not. I did, look at me

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism

 

So let's be clear; you refuse to criticise or condemn Iran for executing victims of rape or homosexuals because it is their law?

You refuse to criticise or condemn Pakistan for sentencing to death a woman for allegedly blaspheming despite no suppotive evidence because it is Pakistani law?

I have already criticized Iran and Pakistan for their laws.

second line. I take my previous comment back Coffee

reply to post by oozyism

As I said previously, some could argue that being homosexual is a choice, that is a different subject. If you want to discuss it, I'm willing.

What does it have to do with the problem? Even if it would be (which most probably is not), religion is also a choice, and advocating a law that makes legal punishing people by death only because of their religion is also wrong and illegal, because its in violation with the Declaration.

Read it , especially Article 30.

reply to post by Maslo


Stealing someone's purse is also a choice.

Some choices are regarded as right, some choices are regarded as wrong.

Some people believe homosexuality is wrong, and should be stopped.

Originally posted by oozyism


Some people believe homosexuality is wrong, and should be stopped.

What do YOU believe oozy?

Originally posted by Freeborn


What do YOU believe oozy?

My belief is kinda funny, I believe homosexuality if a mental disorder and should be treated accordingly

Well, we all got to have our own little unique belief right

reply to post by oozyism


So, is Iran wrong for hanging people with a 'mental disorder' and should they hang everyone with a 'mental disorder'?