US angered by nuclear plant

Originally posted by wcitizen
Mm. And where is the official US outrage that Israel won't officially declare its NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

It's no ones business of what Israel possesses. Israel can't be placed in a catagory of being a threat to world peace. That would complete and utter nonsense.

How can anyone with half a brain take this psycho dictators seriously?

Well maybe because he's a PSYCHO!?!

reply to post by oozyism


Ughhh...

North Korea Calls for Peace Treaty Talks With U.S.

SEOUL, South Korea — North Korea on Monday proposed talks with the United States to reach a formal peace treaty that would replace the truce that halted the Korean War 57 years ago, indicating that it would not give up its nuclear weapons until Washington signed such an accord.

North Korea said peace talks should be held either as part of the six-nation talks that focus on ending its nuclear weapons program or as a separate negotiation. But the North also warned that it would not return to six-nation talks — from which it withdrew last April — unless the United Nations lifted sanctions imposed after the North’s nuclear and ballistic missile tests last year.

The North has proposed many, many peace treaties with the US and SK. The problem is they are demanding an end to sanctions as well as a signed treaty before they will even discuss giving up their nuclear weapons.

They continually place these demands in every treaty they have suggested. Lift the sanctions, sign a peace treaty, then maybe the North will get rid of its nukes. The North has not outright stated it would end its program the moment a peace treaty was signed, but was open to negotiations.

N. Korea is under UN, not US, sanctions, which increased because of there prusuit of Nuclear Weapons. This is the reason the sanctions are in place. The North won't even talk about any of this until sanctions are completely removed.

Not exactly a deal maker...

reply to post by Intelearthling


Actually since Obama took office he has taken Israel to task for its nuke program, and its failure to sign the NPT. Obama went so far as to change the administrations policy towards Israel, allowing them to be chastized, finally, by the United Nations.

Where the hypocrisy comes in on our part is the fact that the US is more than likely going to face a nuclear incident coming from N. Korea rather than Israel. It comes down to how the Government acts when in possesion of these devices.

Pakistan, who has nukes and is not a signatory to the NPT, has control over their nukes (makes me nervous though). India is the same, with an established command an control system with checks and balances to prevent a crazy general launch.

The design behind nukes was to act as a deterent, and again aside from US actions at the end of WWII, and not a first strike weapon unless we all wanted to prove MAD correct. The leadership of North Korea is detached from reality. If you do not ebelive me, check out the North Korean news site. It routinely talks about the dear leaders being immortal, how they created the internet as well as golf, among other things.

When the person who controls the launch codes is a hostage shy of a hijacking, there is real concern he could launch, or sell material to an entity in exchange for season tickets to Disneyland for his son.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by wcitizen
Mm. And where is the official US outrage that Israel won't officially declare its NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

It's no ones business of what Israel possesses. Israel can't be placed in a catagory of being a threat to world peace. That would complete and utter nonsense.

That's a joke, right?

Originally posted by Intelearthling
It's no ones business of what Israel possesses. Israel can't be placed in a catagory of being a threat to world peace. That would complete and utter nonsense.

To play Devils advocate, then its also no ones buisness in terms of what Iran wants to do with their program, or Syria, or Iraq, or venezuella, or N. Korea, etc, etc.

If Israel is going to claim the moral high ground, then they should play by the same rules. If not, then expect others to use the same rulebook they are.

Dont get me wrong, I trust Israel with nukes more than I do Iran, but that is the basis of the problem.

reply to post by wcitizen


No. I'm afraid it's not a joke. Israel bashing is so easy here but to bash the enemies of Israel you'll be labeled a racist, Islamophobe.

Give me one example of how Israel is a threat to world peace and why their nuclear program is the worlds' business.

Let's dismantle Israels nuclear program and demilitarize them. The only thing that will happen is that the rest of the Middle East will annihilate Israel and everyone(almost) here will support this. They don't support Israels right to defend herself but they support the obvious threat that surrounds her.

Originally posted by antar
This is very serious business people, NK is again showing their teeth and guts at the rest of the western world, Poyng yang is mad, he should not have been allowed to go this far, he will probably blow up the planet.

Are you for real.?

Oh man, you should have been part of the 'Typical American' thread. And the fact that this post got 5 stars says a lot about ATS at the moment. A lot of armchair experts that know nothing about what's happening in their own country, nevermind what's happening in the rest of the world.

Since when does any country require the permission of the U.S. to power or their own nation or, if they see fit, develope the technology to defend it? Of all the countries who have and have had nuclear weaponry at their disposal, the United States is the only country in history to launch them against another nation. People should remember that before pointing fingers.

Originally posted by Intelearthling
reply to post by wcitizen

 

No. I'm afraid it's not a joke. Israel bashing is so easy here but to bash the enemies of Israel you'll be labeled a racist, Islamophobe.

Well, I have to say that's not my experience. On those occasions where I have criticised Israel, I have been based for 'anti-semitism'.

Give me one example of how Israel is a threat to world peace and why their nuclear program is the worlds' business.
9/quote]

Palestine. Israel is failing to observe the international agreements regarding the land allocated to the Palestinians. It refuses to stop the settlements. Its treatment of the Palestinians is horrendous. Israel doesn't want peace, it wants to appropriate all of Palestine. That is one of the many examples of why Israel is a threat to world peace. In fact, I would go as far as to say that US and Israel between them are by far the greatest threat to world peace which exists.

Let's dismantle Israels nuclear program and demilitarize them. The only thing that will happen is that the rest of the Middle East will annihilate Israel

What is your basis for saying that?

and everyone(almost) here will support this. They don't support Israels right to defend herself but they support the obvious threat that surrounds her.

Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree. As long as Israel is illegally building settlements on land which belongs to another people, they are not defending themselves, they are carrying out an act of war, and the Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against this.

Originally posted by Project-Sign

Originally posted by antar
This is very serious business people, NK is again showing their teeth and guts at the rest of the western world, Poyng yang is mad, he should not have been allowed to go this far, he will probably blow up the planet.

Are you for real.?

Oh man, you should have been part of the 'Typical American' thread. And the fact that this post got 5 stars says a lot about ATS at the moment. A lot of armchair experts that know nothing about what's happening in their own country, nevermind what's happening in the rest of the world.

Since when does any country require the permission of the U.S. to power or their own nation or, if they see fit, develope the technology to defend it? Of all the countries who have and have had nuclear weaponry at their disposal, the United States is the only country in history to launch them against another nation. People should remember that before pointing fingers.

I applaud your response.

second

Originally posted by Project-Sign

Originally posted by antar
This is very serious business people, NK is again showing their teeth and guts at the rest of the western world, Poyng yang is mad, he should not have been allowed to go this far, he will probably blow up the planet.

Are you for real.?

Oh man, you should have been part of the 'Typical American' thread. And the fact that this post got 5 stars says a lot about ATS at the moment. A lot of armchair experts that know nothing about what's happening in their own country, nevermind what's happening in the rest of the world.

Since when does any country require the permission of the U.S. to power or their own nation or, if they see fit, develope the technology to defend it? Of all the countries who have and have had nuclear weaponry at their disposal, the United States is the only country in history to launch them against another nation. People should remember that before pointing fingers.

This is a very typical response to American nuclear capabilities and the world affairs surrounding nuclear weaponry. The plain and simple solution to this huge debate is education. This is something you are basing an opinion off of without any actual evidence and therefor makes your opinion moot. If you had any evidence you wouldnt make such a ridiculous claim.

Let me enlighten you on why America used the only two nuclear bombs it had in its arsenal at the time on Japan. Ill try to be as brief as possible.

Lets start with the basics: Casualties. Japan was a country that polluted its streets during the time of WWII with anti-west propaganda and calling for every last citizen in the country to die killing Americans should the United States invade the mainland of Japan. They told children to become suicide bombers. They even provided civilians with weapons like grenades. Having fought the Japanese on several Japanese islands outside of the mainland proved how difficult it was to launch a successful invasion of these islands without taking severe amounts of personal casualties. It was accurately calculated that the invasion of the mainland of Japan would result in millions of both US and Japanese casualties. Because of this reality in an unpopular war (a war twice as difficult to win as the one against the Germans in Europe because of the geography) Americans dropped the 2 bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, resulting in less then 300,000 Japanese casualties. These casualties were no longer just civilians in the war as their government literally made them soldiers and weapons with the distribution of such insane propaganda.

Its sort of like when people call America evil for using precision air strikes on targets when the targets are hiding in local cities to use casualties as shields against people that really dont want to see innocent people killed (to suggest America wants to see innocent people killed is just absurd). But the reality of war is that war is war, and war is simple casualties. Those two nukes ended a serious war that was a serious threat to ALL people everywhere! The Japanese were just as evil as the Germans or the Russians. The gulags, the holocaust, the Nanking massacre. The last people on earth you should be defending are the Japanese during WWII or any of the Axis member countries. It was also found that the Japanese, like the Germans, were almost ready to launch their own atom bombs (the Germans nuclear race was disabled by American and British air support bombing their hard water supplies). How devastating would that have been if Germany or Japan dropped nukes on America or Britain or anywhere else?

America could have won the war with Japan regardless. We had blockades around Japan that basically cut off the trade going into that country and cutting them off from the rest of the world. Its the reason Russia actually attacked Germany after operation Barbarossa, because Stalin knew he could use the half of his army that was defending the eastern shores of Russia when his intelligence told him that American blockades of Japan would prevent them from launching a counter-invasion on Russia should Russia invade Germany. What the US intelligence had to ask itself was how to end the war abruptly and force Japan into submission without worrying about occupying Japan and risking severe loss of life because of that Japanese propaganda.

So the question you need to ask yourself here is who is the lesser of two evils, and the answer to that is the United States of America.

You realise all that is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about here? We're talking about the States and it's position on North Korea, nothing to do with Japan. I assure you, I completely understand the reasoning behind the States' use of nuclear weapons in WWII and nowhere did I say I disagree with what they did, but the fact remains that they're the only nation in history to use them against another country. As such I find it ironic that they consider themselves the 'Nuclear police' of the world. I reiterate the question. Since when does anyone need America's permission or blessing to construct nuclear power plants, uranium enrichment plants or, if a nation deems it necessary, nuclear weapons? The States have nuclear weapons as a deterrent, why should another nation not be entitled to have the same?

Originally posted by Project-Sign
You realise all that is completely irrelevant to what we're talking about here? We're talking about the States and it's position on North Korea, nothing to do with Japan. I assure you, I completely understand the reasoning behind the States' use of nuclear weapons in WWII and nowhere did I say I disagree with what they did, but the fact remains that they're the only nation in history to use them against another country. As such I find it ironic that they consider themselves the 'Nuclear police' of the world. I reiterate the question. Since when does anyone need America's permission or blessing to construct nuclear power plants, uranium enrichment plants or, if a nation deems it necessary, nuclear weapons? The States have nuclear weapons as a deterent, why should another nation not be entitled to have the same?

If it was irrelevant then I wouldnt have spent time writing an irrelevant post.

You saying we are the only country in history to use nuclear weapons is making the subject of our using those nuclear weapons on Japan a relevant topic.

reply to post by Secularist


No, I'm pointing out that they're the only nation to use them against another. When and who they nuked is irrelevant. Again, I just find it ironic that they now consider themselves the Nuclear Police of the World.

Originally posted by Project-Sign
Of all the countries who have and have had nuclear weaponry at their disposal, the United States is the only country in history to launch them against another nation. People should remember that before pointing fingers.

I have always argued by that very distinction, that since we are the only country to have used a nuclear weapon (although my personal opinion on that was the Japanese should never have attacked us if they were not prepared to finish it), that we do have a right to lecture others about thedangers of possession and use of suck weapons.

Sometimes watching the videos is not enough to change the mind of a teenager when it comes to drinking and driving. Sometimes whats required is a drunk who drove and killed someone to be there in person saying, don't do this in order to get the message across.

reply to post by Project-Sign


From what I understand the man is mad. Period. He has not shown the ability to control his actions.