Revelation; Seven kings and an eighth

reply to post by truthiron

Thank you for those observations.
Are you placing us in the time of the seventh king?
Because, if so, the eighth king has not yet arrived.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
Perhaps a better way to employ the sequence of kings for future prophecy is to find the same message in it that John's church would have found, starting with the sixth king.
The sixth king represents a time of tribulation, of persecution.
The distance between the sixth king and the seventh king represents the comparatively short interval that would elapse between the time of tribulation and God's response (the great world-crisis of the Four Horsemen).

Just one additional speculation relating to this point.
I've been assuming all the way through this series that "persecution" in Revelation means persecution of the Christian church. In the interests of consistency, that would still be my preferred assumption.

However, if we could allow the possibility that the Holocaust was the relevant "sixth king" time of persection....
This would imply that the present regime, in which the West dominates the world, could be seen as the time of the "seventh king".
Which would mean, in turn, that this domination would be swept away by the "Four Horsemen" crisis, and then replaced by a completely different domination, that of the "eighth".

reply to post by DISRAELI
DISRAELI,

Yes but I can't call them, the heads of the beast kings now. I see Protestantism to be dead now in all the visible churches. It is alive I suppose in those of us that still protest Papal and all other wrongs that can be reformed on. We are chained to a belief or creed system in any denominational church that cannot go on to complete and continuing reform. It, Protestantism rose up as a reforming religious system and lasted aprox. 500 years and is done, dead. The USA was the main place for true freedom for it to take up a great growth. It never had king power as the crowns were laid on the horns before she rose up. Now we surely don't have long to wait to see the eighth come up and He'll be a self proclaimed king, the usurper king and takes the place he ought not. I like Marks verse -

Mr 13:14 ¶ But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Once the heads of the beast had kingly power but now the horns have the kingly power. The horns have the power as kings but according to Rev. 17:12 in Johns day they had no kingdom then but will one hour. That one hour must be when the eighth king has taken over and places them as such, literally Kings. That one hour is a hard call. The other only explanation would be John saw the whole time they have the crowns as one hour as he also saw the horns with the crowns Rev. 13:1. It is evident also the heads lost the power to continue martydom and a new era began and so I don't believe we can miss at the change being at that time. It is also evident also that the money gurus run the world and the churches. We also know who rules the banks and the industrial system and that's where we are ruled from.

Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

At present that is my view, the 10 horns being the dynasties controlling it all.

Truthiron.

Originally posted by truthiron
Once the heads of the beast had kingly power but now the horns have the kingly power. The horns have the power as kings but according to Rev. 17:12 in Johns day they had no kingdom then but will one hour. That one hour must be when the eighth king has taken over and places them as such, literally Kings. That one hour is a hard call. The other only explanation would be John saw the whole time they have the crowns as one hour as he also saw the horns with the crowns Rev. 13:1.

Yes, I'm very interested in that "one hour" verse myself.
I've constructed my whole understanding of the Revelation timeline round two assumptions;
That the "hour" is also the whole period of the reign of the Beast (so that it has the same meaning as Daniel's "week"). I think this resembles your first suggestion.
And that the "half an hour" mentioned in ch8 v1 is the first half of that "hour"; leaving the second half of the "hour" for the more traumatic events of the Seven trumpets etc.

D ....what if you took the hour literal and compacted all of what was to follow with a supernatural break of silence .....I have to tell you about a time I was playing golf and a super storm appeared ...Every other person on the course were not,, ,gone...I kept playing as I was hitting the ball good [unusual for me] and kept playing as I thought it was more likely that if God wanted to take me that way, well sure,I had no fear ....now imagine that the elite have these places of security ,,they are big on security ,,Also I get a picture of a possibly, of a manifestation of Angles taking one ,but passing over the sealed . Sorry for the rant ...My mind is tired and I may not be functional in certain respects ....peace

reply to post by DISRAELI
DISRAELI,

There is a consideration of this "one hour" of Rev. 17:12 being just that because of a prophecy given to Daniel about the ten toes which also depict the last ten ruling ones of this world.

Da 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
Da 2:43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Da 2:45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

God put a stop to the world being united at the tower of Babel and He is not going to allow it now either. That stone "cut out of the mountain without hands" is a statement to take heed to. It is made clear the iron and the clay cannot mix. Looks like Satan's try is cut short very quickly.

These ten horns have been ruling as kings but have not been given a "tenth share" and set as king of it and the world united into ten kingdoms until this time and Satan being over them all. Johns statement Rev. 17:12 then not meaning at his present time but at the time of the prophecy closing.

Re 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

What we must realize is the world is not now under a one ruler authority and Satan will be the one who will set it up and this is his "try" at it. These 10 kings give their power and strength of each of their kingdoms to Satan.

Re 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

"One mind", a real One World Order now. It lasts One Hour.

This is where I am settled on this question for now.

Truthiron.

Originally posted by truthiron
What we must realize is the world is not now under a one ruler authority and Satan will be the one who will set it up and this is his "try" at it. These 10 kings give their power and strength of each of their kingdoms to Satan.

Re 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

"One mind", a real One World Order now. It lasts One Hour.

Yes, this looks like where I am on the subject, even though we get there by different routes.
Thank you for that very thoughtful contribution.

reply to post by the2ofusr1

Thank you for those comments.
The "hour" is supposed to be the time when the Beast and the ten kings are ruling us.
It seems to me that if it was only a literal hour we would be getting of very lightly

reply to post by DISRAELI
When you say we ,do you mean we Christians ?
second

reply to post by the2ofusr1

Thinking about what I said, I think I do mean "we Christians".
On the basis that Christians are the people expected to suffer from the reign of the Beast.
That's why I'm more inclined to take the "hour" as the symbol for a much longer period., covering the time of a much more serious "tribulation".

reply to post by DISRAELI
Rev.
18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, so you will not take part in her sins and so you will not receive her plagues, 18:5 because her sins have piled up all the way to heaven and God has remembered her crimes. 18:6 Repay her the same way she repaid others; pay her back double corresponding to her deeds. In the cup she mixed, mix double the amount for her. 18:7 As much as she exalted herself and lived in sensual luxury, to this extent give her torment and grief because she said to herself, ‘I rule as queen and am no widow; I will never experience grief!’ 18:8 For this reason, she will experience her plagues in a single day: disease, mourning, and famine, and she will be burned down with fire, because the Lord God who judges her is powerful!”

18:9 Then the kings of the earth who committed immoral acts with her and lived in sensual luxury with her will weep and wail for her when they see the smoke from the fire that burns her up. 18:10 They will stand a long way off because they are afraid of her torment, and will say,

“Woe, woe, O great city,

Babylon the powerful city!

For in a single hour your doom has come!”

I noticed in this passage that God is calling out his people so they don't take part in her sins . ...As for a literal hour ,well our god is powerful enough to pull it off .....and yes the Christians have suffred as well as most peoples.....peace

There was a thread recently by truthaboutsunday (seventh-day adventist) who made a thread with a sixteen part video series on Revelation and Daniel. I can't find the thread at the moment, but I'll supply the link later. I thought the series, despite having heavy SDA leanings, was genius. The seven mountains certainly conjure up the image of Rome, "the city of seven hills" and the Whore of Babylon is very likely an apostate church. According to the video series the kings are the kings of Rome as you stated earlier, but according to the video, these kings are Pope Pius XI to Benedict the XVI. This may sound like your typical SDA Catholic bashing, but these seven Popes have quite literally been the Kings of Rome because of the Lateran Treaties that the RCC signed with Italy recognizing the Vatican as a sovereign state. The one "that is" according to John (according to the people in the video) was John Paul II who was the 6th King that John saw as living in the Revelation. The seventh "that is to carry on a little while" would be Benedict XVI who is the oldest Pope in centuries and has even claimed he will have a short reign. His successor is supposedly going to be the Antichrist. At first I though this had no more credibility than the next doomsday interpretation except this interpretation coincides perfectly with the Prophecy of St. Malachy. The prophecy states that after the 111th Pope, Gloria Olivae (Benedict) the final Pope would be Peter the Roman. The Prophecy ends thusly: "In the last persecution of the Holy Roman Church, Peter the Roman will hold the see (lit. "sit"), who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations: and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed, and the terrible judge will judge his people. The End." If you do find the video series on youtube, you can stop it after this point because it goes downhill fast with lame, tired conjecture.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Here it is. Lengthy, but fascinating.

reply to post by kallisti36
kallisti,

The problem is the Papacy isn't the beast but only ONE head of the beast.

Re 13:1 ¶ And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Re 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The beast has 6 more heads and 10 horns and it was the Papacy that took the wound and this stopped the Martydom of the dark ages. People need to be more discerning of the Word and not jump to such conclusions.

Truthiron.

reply to post by kallisti36

Thank you for your comments and that link.

If the present Pope really is the seventh "king", then the next stage, according to my own theory, would have to be the arrival of the "Four Horsemen". We shall have to see.

One possible flaw in the theory is that papal sovereignty did not really start with the Lateran treaty. They were also sovereign in the period before 1870, which is the date when the Franco-Prussian war began, the protective French garrison was obliged to withdraw, and the Italian government marched in. The interval between 1870 and the Lateran treaty was just an interruption.

The problem with most theories identifying the Roman Catholic Church with the Harlot and the Beast is that they don't seem to take into consideration what happens at the end of chapter 17, when the Beast is at war with the Harlot and wants to destroy her. This makes it difficult for the Catholic church to be both.
I don't know if the series in that thread gets around that point

reply to post by DISRAELI


Accordin to the videos, the gap in Vatican sovereignty is when the Beast of the Sea is wounded. I believe they contradicted themselves there, because if the RCC is anything in Revelations, it's the Whore of Babylon and the Beast that makes war with it is probably an anti-religious (new secular) world government. This would be an interesting turn of events because the Harlot Church could attract more followers if it were being oppressed.

On a side note, after leaving the RCC a while ago I've been studying different denominations of Christianity trying to find the closest to the original Christians. This lead me to the Messianic Jews though they had doctrines I didn't agree with so I reconsidered. After reading Youth of the Apocalyspe by Justin Marler (guitar player of Sleep who became an Orthodox monk) I became interested in Orthodox Christianity. If anyone can offer a dire reason why I should avoid this denomination like the plague, I would like to hear it. So far my only main concern is Iconography and how it may be idolotry. Actually based on my current beliefs I believe that my ideal denomination would be Ethiopian Orthodox. Too bad I don't speak Amharic.

reply to post by DISRAELI


They must be the people that the whore of babylon "gets with".

revelation

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space"

the one that is to come makes 7. so all the men that get with the whore form one conscience(no brain between them) that one conscience they form "gang,rag tag crew of nobodys,mafia" is the beast itself.

"the beast having seven heads and 10 horns" "the whore sits on a beast that has 10 horns and seven heads" So those quotations show the beast figure and the beast the whore rides are the same entity.
So I will break this down for you, The beast is 7 guys that get with the whore of babylon. seven heads represent just that,7 men,have you ever heard someone say "another head is here" when someone walks in the room?.Why dont seven men make seven beasts? The reason bieng it takes all seven of their brain cells to make one thought. The ten horns are the 10 car horns between the 7 men that drive the whore around (the whore rides the beast). Now you may wonder how biblical scripture saying 10 horns could possibly be car horns,well remember revelation happens at the end of time, at the end of time will cars have been invented yet? they already have been. On an end note,it is not the reason she has seven men that makes her the worst whore (you may know a saint that has 9 boyfriends) and it is not that seven men share one woman that makes them the beast,it is the motives behind this act and the plotting and scheming involved that make this crew a crew to be forgotten forever.

Originally posted by kallisti36
Accordin to the videos, the gap in Vatican sovereignty is when the Beast of the Sea is wounded. I believe they contradicted themselves there, because if the RCC is anything in Revelations, it's the Whore of Babylon

Aha! I thought as much!

I became interested in Orthodox Christianity. If anyone can offer a dire reason why I should avoid this denomination like the plague, I would like to hear it.

I see no dire reason. The Orthodox are offering Christian teaching, and they're certainly part of the Christian community. They have a dispute with the western church about a phrase in the Nicene Creed, but I think this is really a verbal difference.

Possibly the use of icons may be a flaw. As with Catholic imagery, the attitude is what matters, but the existence of the imagery is a temptation to the wrong attitude. Church history will tell you of the great controversies when some of the Orthodox themselves expressed their doubts on the point. But in the end the supporters of icons had more political strength than the "Iconoclasts".

There is now an Index, covering all these Revelation threads, at this location;

Index of Revelation threads

This thread is numbered as #35 in the "order of chapters" list and Biblical reference index.

reply to post by DISRAELI

The seven hills on which that great city sits are also seven kings. The revelation of this prophecy came out during the reign of the sixth sovereign king, [of the smallest country in the world called the Vatican City which was formed by the Lateran Treaty in 1929], Pope John Paul II.
There is also an eighth hill called the Janiculum, which reflects the 'eighth' head; who was [alive], is not [alive] yet who shall be present i.e. resurrected.
From this and other Biblical revelations of prophesies, it shows that the next Pope will emerge from the airtight security of the conclave, appearing to be 'Jesus Christ at his second coming' but because this timing could be foretold, it shows he is not the true Christ.