It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by Gaussq
reply to post by v01i0
I did not have these things but after practicing self-cultivation for some time now I can see things in meditation when I enter tranquillity. Demons, ghosts, angels, deities - they are all there.
Among primitives, for instance, the imago, the psychic reverberation of the sense-perception, is so strong and so sensurously coloured that when it is reproduced as a spontaneous memory-image it sometimes even has the quality of an hallucination. Thus when the memory-image of his dead mother suddenly reappears to a primitive, it is as if it were hes ghost that he sees and hears. We only "think" of the dead, but the primitive actually perceives them because of the extraordinary sensuousness of his mental images. This explains the primitive's belief in ghosts and spirits; they are what we quite simply call "thoughts". When the primitive "thinks", he literally has visions, whose reality is so great that he constantly mistakes the psychic for the real. (The Collected Works of C. G. Jung, part 6: Psychological types.)
Originally posted by bogomil
It's like spending 12 years in school, arriving at college mathematics and saying, that you had it inside you all the time; no 'external' tutoring was ever needed. Well, I have problems with that model; no matter what, with my present knowledge capacity, I'll never be able to build a nuclear powerplant or 're-invent' quantum-physics on my own.
Originally posted by bogomil
[S]ome of the runner-ups can give good inspiration and suggestions
Originally posted by bogomil
I believe, that I basically share what I think is your general attitude of both uniqueness and a potential for 'ultimate reality' in us, but I also recognize, that somewhere/somehow our visible universe contains smokescreens, which influence us deeply. Most likely to the extent of actively making us spiritual morons or zombies.
Originally posted by bogomil
If a metaphor of spirituality being imprisoned is worth anything, then it's not a question of whether to get out or not, but rather HOW to get out.
Originally posted by v01i0
The residual haunting is of course interesting phenomena and I tend to think it is related to certain extrasensitiveness. There may be something in the environment that causes some people to feel or see something, which they attribute on ghosts due social and cultural adaptation.
So I kinda agree with you that this ability (or flaw) is based on our individual nervous structure, imagination and sociocultural factors.
Game Over – Thanks For Playing
In some of the most primitive cultures, the dead linger. Not only do they linger, but they are included as active members of the community. Of course, this is viewed by the modern world as superstition and the pagan worship of a glut of spirits that have been assigned to everything from rocks to bird droppings. Still, this idea of the lingering and interactive dead did not spring from animal behavior. This was a truly innovative idea when it appeared, and as I have already noted, there is nothing inherent about corporeal existence that naturally inspires the notion of non-corporeal intelligent life. There’s certainly nothing natural about the notion that the corporeal being will become a non-corporeal being once it has died. In fact, the entire premise is absolutely counterintuitive. And still, the primitive cultures revere their dead and serve them with a full understanding that these dead people are present and aware of this effort on their behalf.
It’s the theologies that emerged during times after the advent of cities and large population concentrations that feature The Crossing Over concept, and one has to wonder if this event is culturally imposed upon the living, by the living, with the view toward making sure the departed stay departed, and for any of a host of good reasons.
*Speculation Alert* Okay, so we are speculating here, and while I am not going to deny the adventurous nature of this particular speculation, it can’t hurt to just have a little fun with a few thoughts as we explore this whole Crossing Over issue. After all, we’ve just acknowledged a speculation alert, so we can go nuts on this next idea if we want to.
So, let’s pretend that there was once a small business owner, and let’s suggest that the business he owned had a chance to grow into a much larger business. The only thing standing in the way of this guy’s business getting this much-needed boost, was the fact that to start this small business originally, he had to partner with another guy, and with that partnership came the requirement that he gain this other guy’s approval for any and all major business decisions. And this expansion was one major business decision.
So let’s say that the partner was not onboard with this decision, and in fact, he really, really was not on board with this decision. It might even be fair to say that this partner was actively opposed to this decision. Since we’re just speculating, let’s say that the business owner decided that this partnership has run its course, and that the till-death-do-us-part clause in the contract was now vulnerable to exactly the kind of option that had suddenly presented itself for immediate execution.
Now, taking his partner from the corporeal realm would solve the legal issues (concerning the partnership itself), but unless this particular departed could be convinced to physically (and permanently) depart, the de facto aspects of the original dilemma would remain. With the advent of laws and law enforcement, the whole situation could become even more problematic for the partner who dispatched the decreased. Especially with all that newly released dynamic information (in the form of the dead partner’s lingering IDI presence) hanging about, with revenge likely on its own agenda.
*Digression Alert* Yes, this is speculation, and maybe even a bit of irresponsible speculation at that, but what we do know is that the newly departed have been sighted, and that they’ve been heard, and that this has happened again and again for thousands of years, and within the confines of every culture on the entire planet. To make the claim that the departed have no existence – in the face of all that empirical evidence – is to go even further in the direction of raw speculation. Then again, it’s not as if there weren’t sensible men and women roundly dismissing the possibility of heavier-than-air human flight as one of the new flying contraptions sailed right past them in broad daylight. Humans are gifted at dismissing the obvious if it doesn’t align properly with their personal view.
So, back to the dilemma facing the business owner who’d dissolved his partnership (having done so with extreme prejudice). If the ex had been raised to firmly believe that once he died, he would be expected somewhere else – anywhere else, in fact – and that the success of his afterlife depended on his being wherever that somewhere else was, then the business move that his surviving partner executed (no real pun intended) would have had a better chance of being a successful business move. (since this specific dearly departed would indeed depart forever, instead of sticking around and mucking up things for the surviving partner) Maybe it’s just the way that I see things, but doesn’t that whole Crossing Over concept suddenly seem like a real breakthrough for managing difficult personal relationships?
I also find it interesting that the more modern and sophisticated the culture, the more removed from the corporeal realm the departed become once they’ve departed. The latest incarnation of distancing the departed has them gone for good in a perfect heavenly paradise, where it’s always a “better place”, and earthly concerns are either forgotten or placed magically into proper perspective. The kind of perspective where forgiveness flows freely – exclusively from that side to this side here on Earth – and all is made right regardless of how horribly wrong it all actually was. Does anyone else see the distinct advantage for the winners of these most deadly of corporeal conflicts in any of this?
Of course, we’re simply speculating here.
One inventive notion, conceived during a period of human history when there were plenty of people living in close quarters, with multiple family groups interacting with one another as larger societal units (either towns, cities or city states), involved the idea of departed people being required to begin new lives – as either animals or new infant humans – once their Crossing Over was completed. This seems to almost have the feel of a compromise between the more primitive idea of the lingering, interactive dead, and the more modern dearly (and completely) departed dead, with these departed folks resurfacing within the family as a newly born child. Or possibly a newly purchased cow. Either way, the dead have departed in one sense, and yet they linger in another very real sense. But is there more to this curious combination than merely folks wanting their dead departed and yet actively present at the same time? Maybe so.